Do box speaker have artificial bass?

[Hari Iyer]

Well, in real life I have found, some dips and cliffs are actually helpful in a room and just seam in very right and sound great....
!

Provided the dips and clips are within +/-2dB, else there will be phase shift

 

[square_wave]

I come from a background where i have listened to many box speakers (vented, sealed, TL, Bandpass, subwoofers) and built them too. Offlate i am using an single driver full range OB speaker in my 2 channel setup. After listening them for around 6+ months, i now am getting a feeling that bo speakers bass is more artificial which dont represent the real time instrument - be it a drum or a string base guitar. IMO the box speakers ring a little more than the real instrument and the bass tend to linger down more than required giving a sense of artificial bass. This may be good for home theater but certainly not for 2 channel music.

I have had the opportunity to listen to solo tabala and mridangam been played live without any amplification or electronics and the bass in these instruments are quite tight with no lingering though there are seldom below 70Hz. But when these are listened in a box speaker it goes an octave down to around 40Hz giving the artificial lift. So i am at loss to know which one is correct? The artificial 40Hz which gives us a good feeling as it has a extra lower harmonic content or the accuracy of the OB speaker which plays as it is without the artificial harmonic content (read no boom)?

I think it all depends on the room and how it all setup. What you hear at your listening location is what matters. Lets say you have a box speaker in your listening room and from your listening position it is setup to measure fairly flat in the low frequencies, there is no boost to the tabala bass, right ? This is the same for OB as well.

As compared to the frequency response in the recording, do all box speakers boost it by 1 octave in the bass region? I don’t think so.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Missed one most important aspect of my speaker placement - The ratio of the distance between the centers of both the speakers and the front wall is an golden ratio.
Distance between two speakers are 87.5" and distance from front wall is 52.5".
Ratio is 0.6.

Cheers

 

[Hari Iyer]

I think it all depends on the room and how it all setup. What you hear at your listening location is what matters. Lets say you have a box speaker in your listening room and from your listening position it is setup to measure fairly flat in the low frequencies, there is no boost to the tabala bass, right ? This is the same for OB as well.

As compared to the frequency response in the recording, do all box speakers boost it by 1 octave in the bass region? I don’t think so.

Cant compare OB with box speakers for speaker placements directly as box speakers are monopole by nature from 200 Hz onwards up.

OB has a dipole radation patter from low to mid frequency till say 10 KHz or so. Since the radiation patterns are different they could behave differently in the same position.

 

[square_wave]

Cant compare OB with box speakers for speaker placements directly as box speakers are monopole by nature from 200 Hz onwards up.

OB has a dipole radation patter from low to mid frequency till say 10 KHz or so. Since the radiation patterns are different they could behave differently in the same position.

Ok. Let me try to represent this better.

The original argument : OB bass is representative of the real thing while all box speakers artificially boost bass and is not real.

This statement is not correct in all cases. This has to be evaluated on a case to case basis. Some OBs may be more real than some box speakers and vice versa. Also, correct setup as applicable to the speakers in question needs to be done before any evaluation is done. Room, gear, placement are all variables and needs to be carefully tuned in for each type of speaker to make a meaningful apples to apples comparison.

For example, I have heard the same box speaker boom in one room and sound textured and taut in another room. The difference is the owner, gear, dedication, room quality etc.

 

[saikatbiswas82]

After some experiments in active tuning using mics and RTA software, I have noted that after tuning to a flat frequency response, the music sounds lifeless.

I heard something similar from an inactive FM earlier. I know him and he (along with his friend) did some experiments with his OB and measurement gear.

As per them, when the response was flat, it bacame lifeless.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Ok. Let me try to represent this better.

The original argument : OB bass is representative of the real thing while all box speakers artificially boost bass and is not real.

This statement is not correct in all cases. This has to be evaluated on a case to case basis. Some OBs may be more real than some box speakers and vice versa. Also, correct setup as applicable to the speakers in question needs to be done before any evaluation is done. Room, gear, placement are all variables and needs to be carefully tuned in for each type of speaker to make a meaningful apples to apples comparison.

For example, I have heard the same box speaker boom in one room and sound textured and taut in another room. The difference is the owner, gear, dedication, room quality etc.

Alright.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I heard something similar from an inactive FM earlier. I know him and he (along with his friend) did some experiments with his OB and measurement gear.

As per them, when the response was flat, it bacame lifeless.

Each one to its own. I have a totally opposite experience. IMO, the lifeless flat speakers would not be a minimum phase design. Most flat FR speakers are usually minimum phase design.

 

[drgnanam]

hari,
if you are interested in natural bass (close to live) , dipole subwoofers are the best bet, look at the following speaker design
1.Lx521 (linkwitz lab)
2.LX STUDIO
i have heard the lxmini , in the process of adding dipole subwoofer may in one year time, they are expensive for me

 

[saikatbiswas82]

hari,
if you are interested in natural bass (close to live) , dipole subwoofers are the best bet, look at the following speaker design
1.Lx521 (linkwitz lab)
2.LX STUDIO
i have heard the lxmini , in the process of adding dipole subwoofer may in one year time, they are expensive for me

Coming back to OB, I've had the opportunity to listen to some OBs made out of H-Frame with 2X15" alphas per side. To my little listening experience - that is some bass to remember. It was precise, punchy and foced me to start tapping my foot.

Heard (read) a lot about LX521 but never knew anyone having them in my vicinity.

 

[saikatbiswas82]

Each one to its own. I have a totally opposite experience. IMO, the lifeless flat speakers would not be a minimum phase design. Most flat FR speakers are usually minimum phase design.

I'm yet to experience the difference in my setup. If the thread is alive till next 2-3 months, hopefully I'll be able to contribute my experience as well.

 

[dr khanwelkar]

Hari, all studios world over use dynamic speakers and in some cases semi horn speakers for mastering. That should tell you something. Auditoriums again use dynamic speakers or in some cases horns. No one uses OB speakers. The bass sounds very diffuse and soft which is not how it is in real life. Which is why I prefer the bass driver to be in a bass reflex and the mids and highs in open baffle. That according to me is a good compromise

Is this the reason behind my liking Cadence Arista?

 

[prem]

It’s possible, dr khanwelkar. In the Arista, the bass does not keep pace with the panel. It lags. I have owned that speaker about two decades back and am familiar with it. This is a problem with most electrostats and horns where the bass driver lags.

 

[Naveenbnc]

This is just an additional note regarding exact reproduction of music from recording studio. Paul says in the very frist stage, music itself is not recorded as it is....