Does Cost of Amp or speaker means best quality audio?

[Audio_Freek]

Hi FM's

Some things really eating up my mind for long time regards to audio equipment's quality and cost.

Everyone would agree with science of hearing 20hz to 20Khz is only possile by normal human beings and Decibel rating more than 100 (approx) could sound as noise.The frequencies could be reproduced in Full-range,mid-range and,Sub drivers type of speakers.

So wat is the use of owning system amp or speaker for Lakhs and Lakhs? what actually makes them cost more, the Audio quality? or brand? high DB? or Components used?

A good Hedphone worth in thousands give more clarity to ears for me than speakers holding cost more than >50,000

If some one can take up an example tracks, and clear me what are the things will be missing in medium costing Amp+speaker(Budget below 30 Thousand) compared to High costing amp+speaker(More than 1 Lakh) Stereo set-up could be used as its easy to understand.

This thread could look funny, but really got shocked of hearing the cost of amp and some brand speakers which are really more than owning a Luxury appartment in city

 

[corElement]

Hi FM's

Some things really eating up my mind for long time regards to audio equipment's quality and cost.

Everyone would agree with science of hearing 20hz to 20Khz is only possile by normal human beings and Decibel rating more than 100 (approx) could sound as noise.The frequencies could be reproduced in Full-range,mid-range and,Sub drivers type of speakers.

So wat is the use of owning system amp or speaker for Lakhs and Lakhs? what actually makes them cost more, the Audio quality? or brand? high DB? or Components used?

A good Hedphone worth in thousands give more clarity to ears for me than speakers holding cost more than >50,000

If some one can take up an example tracks, and clear me what are the things will be missing in medium costing Amp+speaker(Budget below 30 Thousand) compared to High costing amp+speaker(More than 1 Lakh) Stereo set-up could be used as its easy to understand.

This thread could look funny, but really got shocked of hearing the cost of amp and some brand speakers which are really more than owning a Luxury appartment in city

It's all a matter of perception. For example a $5000 headphone setup can and will most likely deliver the content a $40000 speaker setup can. However the experience of a headphone and speaker are different.

End of the day it's all a combination of the following

Practicality and space
Budget
Your ability to perceive projected sound
Your choice of perceived sound
What your mind enjoys more

For example in my case if I could get a philips ah718 + FS bookshelf speaker that i grew up listening to in brand new condition. I wouldnt care about the highest of high systems but would get that for pure emotional bliss.

This too is a matter of choice of perceived sound and what your mind enjoys. So some people enjoy owning diamond accuton tweeters or beryllium drivers. If they are able to perceive the difference in projected sound and have the money and practical circumstances of owning it, why not? Some people enjoy cars, others enjoy owning tons of properties, and others speakers.

For me personally the limit of 3-4000 USD is my guilt barrier. The voice of reason tells me people dont get money for food and medicine and i am wasting it on material things when I can use it for helping other family members in the future. And therefore I attempt to get the best sound I can within that budget.

 

[jaudere]

Very well put cor. @OP: as cor has said, it depends upon what you like. People try to buy happiness. It depends on where your happiness lies. Few people are happy with price tag, few are really looking for good sound, few are looking at multifunctionality, few find happiness in trying to build something by themselves. If one is happy with headphone sound , then there is no need to spend more (provided the safety issues with headphone are taken care of). I personally cannot use headphones for more than 15 min , so I have to look at regular system. Over the years, I have built system to my liking using some DIY, some brand new and some second hand components and I spent 50k on that (not counting the money on failed speakers are components sold at loss). Now despite having money at disposal, I don't feel any urge to upgrade (I hope my brain cooperates with heart to keep status Quo) . Now 50k may be entry level system for few while many of my friends feel that it is exorbitantly costly.

 

[Audio_Freek]

CorElement,

Thanks for the reply, well said that the desire and hearing sense diff from ppl ,Then if we say upgrade, most of the audiophiles just moving up in Budget and not in their sense of hearing.

So hearing sense of the ppl keep on changing from Set-up to set-up?

I was using India made amp and speakers before 5 years.. i was happy with the sound and bass out of it and never bother about the quality..

Then upgraded to JBL studio monitor and yamaha amp.. after that am in heaven while listening to music,, I could hear lot of music at background, which i haven't hear in theater or previous music experience or even in headphone(as head phone lacks bass) without affecting the original sound..It took me to a new world of music of hearing and i understood that " when the original recording is reproduced with 100% then that should be good equipment's"...

None of the frequency or music track must be missed or overlapped by Low frequencies so that what is recorded should be reproduced..

The series of brands and the models sounding that nothing can give 100% recorded or has given 100% recorded.


So still am thinking for an upgrade

So whats your Idea about the quality of sound?

 

[Audio_Freek]

Jaudere,
Ya you are right, normally i use to check the audio quality in headphone and i too feel dizziness if Headphone is ON on my ears for more than 20-30 mins.

"Few people are happy with price tag, few are really looking for good sound, few are looking at multifunctionality"

wow that a nice statement so, what does quality sound means? I feel its clear sound pls post if you ve any second thoughts

 

[corElement]

I believe there are different types of sound, for example:

Reference Sound : When all contents of a track are reproduced. Quality of reproduction is a different subject.

Physical Sound : When the sound invokes a physical response and one is swept away by the sheer body of sound. Again quality of response varies person to person.

Emotional Sound: When something has a certain emotional signature that invokes an emotional response. Even if the sound is bad to someone else, it still appeals to you because you find happiness in it. Both reference and physical sounds are overpowered by emotion.

One system cannot serve all needs, that's why there are

Reference Grade equipment
Home theatre or space conserving equipment
Rare specialty / vintage equipment that can possibly trigger an emotional response.

There are other types of sound as well. But the key thing is, perception. Someone who recognizes their perception and are able to bend their perception and still understand a flat response will make for a good reviewer.

 

[jaudere]

Good sound , to me, simply means the sound which pleases your senses and in some cases, can even give emotional high. A good sounds makes you take note of itself. You can keep on working when sound is ok for background but when the sound is good, you will reflexly take time out of your work that you are doing and listen to the music. I like the kind of music where there is human voice and minimum necessary instruments and the song is medium paced. I like a system which can reveal minute details while giving adequate low and mids. Someone else will like music with blast of instruments (like rock music) where many times I cannot even make out what the singer is shouting.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Take the principle of diminishing returns, the experience of ownership satisfaction, the size of the bank balance --- and mix until it pleases.

Some of us may think that the cost-of-a-house stuff is ridiculous, but we can't deny that the person who owns it gets satisfaction; maybe just from looking at it without even turning it on!

There are those that buy hifi just for decoration --- and there are those that buy something unique because they believe in it.

Another angle to this is that it is a tough world for the manufacturers. Unlike the situation of fifty years ago, damned good music can be heard at entry-level prices. How much more do the manufacturers have to give, or how do they persuade us, to pay a thousand times those prices? The first few steps up that ladder produce improvements that are noticeable to all and everyone with a decent ear for music. Diminishing returns sets in, the hundredth-part improvement becomes the thousandth-part improvement --- not to mention the many "improvements" that exist only in our minds.

 

[Audio_Freek]

Mates,
I too can understand the music scene change from person to person, and so i didn't admit the question "Which is good set-up, low budget or high budget"

I felt there is difference between best and fav, the fav can change from PTP,but the best not.

If any of you made a recent upgraded in your audio-set up and can you share the experience of what made you impressed in new set-up compared to old,am sure you can pin point the diff else you might have not upgraded

 

[corElement]

I'll give you a basic easy to understand account of my experience.

I was using Jamo e875 floorstanders and I changed to Jamo concert 8. The Jamo concert 8 is a 2way speaker and e875 floorstander is a 3 way.

I found the Jamo floorstander a little weird for vocal music because 1 voice being spread across 3 drivers but instrument and percussion sounded very nice and everything could be separated. In comparison the concert 8 is 2 way with the woofer crossed over around 2500hz so vocals were more cohesive and accurate, but instruments were not as prominent as the e875 where each driver was almost playing each instruments frequency individually...but overall the sound quality was better balanced and more accurate than the 875. In essence the e875 was a better for trans and electronic music instead of pure vocals compared to the concert 8 which was a better all rounder performer... A different type of sound. This was just one example of the difference between the two speakers, there were more differences but this should give you an idea.

Now which one is better or worse you ask?

you decide

That was my experience from my most recent gear change, as you requested to hear

 

[Audio_Freek]

Thanks for sharing, if you love vocal then you should be very happy with upgrade and instrumental then could have managed with concerts performance..

i might have kept both one for Rock\metal and Jazz (FS) and another (BS) for Indian classic like gazzal, carnatic etc

And i think its time to close the thread, Money doesn't mater on quality of sound\music as its differ from PTP according to persuption.

Thanks for all, who made a valuable posts

 

[ranjeetrain]

Spending more money definitely buys you better equipments, but not after a certain point. The point is called point-of-diminishing returns. The placement of this point varies from person to person, based on how good his hearing is and how deep his pocket.

How much to spend on hifi is very subjective and a very personal thing. In many many ways spending on a hifi system is same as eating. Spending on a hifi does to your ears (hunger for music) what eating does to your stomach (hunger for living).

When you are starving, you take whatever is available and start eating. You still feel immediate relief. The same way, when you have no music system (on travel, long vacation, temporary job posting) any music system makes you feel good. Walkman, Discman, iPod, Pocket radios, Mobile phones, anything literally.

When you are just hungry, you want to choose what you would like to eat. You can wait till your order arrives. The same way, when you have a music system and don't need one urgently, you want to go out, be selective, audition and choose what you like. In either cases, the money you spend is mostly worth every penny.

When you are not hungry, rather going to a party, you have a large selection of food and drinks to choose from. You don't eat to fill your belly, you eat to feel good, to enjoy the company, to enjoy the atmosphere. The same way, when you do have a good music system, but feel the impulse of upgrading, mostly due to participation on forums like these, you don't spend for improvement in your listening, rather you spend for enjoying the expenditures. Changes are subtle and need conviction to be realized. It may not even be appropriate to call those changes upgrades in most cases, so I would just call them changes. But those changes have a lot of value. They change the decor of the house, they change your mood. The break the monotony of your good but old system, exactly the way a party changes the monotony of the good food at home. But too much partying can be bad for physical health, and too much of these upgrades can be bad for financial health (also known as wealth).

When you are already on the party circuit, you want to do something different that will push you into the next league. Something that will make you a celebrity, a page 3 person. People will photograph you, talk about you. You will always be in the talk. The same way, if you upgrade to ridiculously expensive components, you become a celebrity on audio forums. People talk about you, you enjoy the status and that's motivation behind those upgrades.

Some people don't like to be on page 3. But they are anyway there, because they are super rich/super achievers/naturally deserving. They party to keep the company and the status. For them, it's a matter of maintaining the status rather than partying. The same way, many super rich people don't buy expensive systems because they love the music, or hear the difference. They do it because they have the money, and the music system in their house should match the rest of the decor. It better be expensive. Sounding good will be an added qualification and will be a great bonus.

 

[ranjeetrain]

damned good music can be heard at entry-level prices.

Can't agree with that more. The focus of audio manufacturers have shifted from producing better equipments to producing expensive equipments. And in this era of consumerism it's working well. I have heard many good and very musical sounding systems are lower price points. After hearing equipments costing ridiculous amounts I have come to conclude, the joy of music really isn't in spending more, it is in finding components that sound good and connect you to the music.

 

[Hiten]

Few people are happy with price tag, few are really looking for good sound, few are looking at multifunctionality,

I Agree with you Doc. Idea is to never be in two minds. Unless one is rich and can afford costly upgrades, one can arrive at mental peace of this ever so confusing hobby by being content with what one can afford, with side by side learning all things related to audio if one finds that field interesting.
Regards

 

[Audio_Freek]

Can't agree with that more. The focus of audio manufacturers have shifted from producing better equipments to producing expensive equipments. And in this era of consumerism it's working well. I have heard many good and very musical sounding systems are lower price points. After hearing equipments costing ridiculous amounts I have come to conclude, the joy of music really isn't in spending more, it is in finding components that sound good and connect you to the music.

Ranjeetrain,

Thanks for detailed statements. I agree with you 100%, When we rich each and everything we buy considered as prestige , we would go with most Expensive stuffs just to decorate the room although purpose is decorate Mind via Ear

At same time i have seem some audiophiles who spends more than what they could for music, they are true music freaks

So its better choose something which sounds pleasure for us.. Just prepare budget, analyse ,read reviews finally audition some and pick one at last

As corElement said, though the speakers are made for music, there are lot of things to be noted while purchasing the same, Some go fine with vocals, some with Strings some with Drums..

I need to revisit my budget to purchase a specification for each of my listening, suddenly i gone like drunken mad for Metal.. so want to check out for Guitar amp and speakers which is out of Home listening crowdhyeah:

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

the joy of music really isn't in spending more...

The joy in spending more can be, simply, in ...spending more

As a shopoholic I can have some sympathy with that

But here's my hifi upgrade story. It's priced in GBP, because it was bought in GBP, but it's the proportions that matter.

I had Sherwood amp. it was good in inputs, outputs, watts per channel, knobs and switches. I never thought it sounded bad either. It must have cost me around UK 150. I cannot remember what caused me to checking out a Cyrus amp, 600, reduced to 300 ex-demo, but I bought it. It certainly sounded good in the shop, although I had some trepidation about one third the number of watts per channel.

I took it home, connected it up ...and wow. I realised that what I had been listening to before was almost distortion. This, now, was music, clear and beautiful.

At the time, about ten or twelve years ago, it was fairly natural for me to make the assumption that this was the payback for spending four times (at MRP) the amount on an amplifier. I assumed that five times, or ten times, would have been even better. I assumed that, having entered this level of hifi, moving into higher end equipment would give even greater payback.

I never could afford that move anyway --- but now, although I am confident I was quite correct about the relative quality of my two ampliers, I seriously suspect that all my other assumptions were probably wrong. Or, at least, wrong in that the were then, linear.

 

[S.P.KRISHNA]

Every one try to move from one level to another in upward way, be it in their personnel vehicle, mobile, house etc and in any thing for that matter in their daily life and the only time in reverse direction is if they cannot afford, be it financially or for any other reason, which no one wishes to be in. Similarly in the taste of audio and its equipment. The reason is "their satisfaction".

Regards

 

[Audio_Freek]

Every one try to move from one level to another in upward way, be it in their personnel vehicle, mobile, house etc and in any thing for that matter in their daily life and the only time in reverse direction is if they cannot afford, be it financially or for any other reason, which no one wishes to be in. Similarly in the taste of audio and its equipment. The reason is "their satisfaction".

Regards

Krish,
We everyone always wanted for an upgrade which makes them a level up.. BTW the question is does owning a high priced equipment(than what you owned) gives more better feel on your hearing experience.

One of my friend's dad offered me a Technics SB-30( not sure about correct number) before some years with 8'' driver+Horn tweeter for just 1000 INR it sounded well then JBL control Monitor 5, which I was owning that time.

I was happy with that until one of the drivers in technics fell sick..

It was an upgrade but performance wise nothyeah: Cost wise

 

[theredcommando]

I think there are some clearly established rules -

1 - Bigger driver can give more SPL and is essential for LF
2 - More number of drivers means more independent and truthful sound generation generally(as there is lesser distortion, because of dedicated driver for each frequency range).
3 - Cabinet, driver material, crossover material does affect the sound quality. At least it would affect the durability.

After considering above points, there is certain quality to cost ratio that you would achieve. After this other parameters would kick in(like affinity to some brand, design, sound signature etc as others mentioned) or you would start having close and competing options(eg full ranger vs multi driver). This is the saturation point in my opinion.

For majority, there would be no gain achieved after this, but some will still see some improvement.

As somebody pointed out, after spending more you can only spend 'even more', you cant spend lesser. This is the reason there are systems that cost few lakhs of rupees and there are buyers(because they want to upgrade from couple of lakhs rupees system).

For systems below 30k, you will be missing at least first 2 points mentioned above. You wont be getting true LF, would not get multiple(3 or more) good drivers.
50-60k seems to be the real saturation point.

Headphones and IEM can achieve this same level of SQ at much lesser cos, but they have their own limitations.

 

[alpha1]

Hi FM's

Some things really eating up my mind for long time regards to audio equipment's quality and cost.

Everyone would agree with science of hearing 20hz to 20Khz is only possile by normal human beings and Decibel rating more than 100 (approx) could sound as noise.The frequencies could be reproduced in Full-range,mid-range and,Sub drivers type of speakers.

So wat is the use of owning system amp or speaker for Lakhs and Lakhs? what actually makes them cost more, the Audio quality? or brand? high DB? or Components used?

This thread could look funny, but really got shocked of hearing the cost of amp and some brand speakers which are really more than owning a Luxury appartment in city

Let me read this in a different context:


Some things really eating up my mind for long time regards to car's quality and cost.

Everyone would agree with science of motorized locomotion only possible by normal human beings. This stabilized locomotion could be produced by either two wheeler, three wheeler, four wheeler or multi-wheeler vehicles.

So wat is the use of owning a car worth crores and crores? what actually makes them cost more, the ride quality? or brand? or Components used?

***
See the parallel?
Value = price that you feel is justified.
The justification can be as practical/measurable as wanting to move to another place at fastest possible speed to as emotional as wanting something for ego massage.