Dsd

[IndianEars]

Sidvee

I agree with you that JRiver Upsampled to DSD content does not sound great.

However when the Content is Hardware upsampled within the DAC to DSD (Meitner, Playback) its an entirely different story......

 

[sidvee]

However when the Content is Hardware upsampled within the DAC to DSD (Meitner, Playback) its an entirely different story......

Not sure about Playback, but I thought Meitner DAC supported native rates only upto 24/192. Maybe I am mistaken.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[IndianEars]

Meitner /EMM Labs is one of the Earliest and strongest Proponents of DSD ......

 

[IndianEars]

From the EMM Labs / Meitner site:

When Sony needed to transform SACD from an intriguing concept into a sonic reality, they turned to one of the world's leading experts in digital converter design: Ed Meitner.

In those early days, Ed's EMM Labs worked hand-in-glove with Sony and Phillips to refine what was possible from the format and to establish the unparalleled sonic purity for which SACD is now known.

The company soon developed the first complete multichannel DSD playback system from disc to preamplifier. And quickly became one of the industry's most respected makers of high-resolution audio recording and playback products.

These distinctions were achieved by the unique amalgam of talent herephysicists, engineers and music lovers alikeworking as a team to create the most faithful music production and reproduction equipment available. And, in fact, possible.

Today, EMM Labs converter systems are the de facto DSD reference of the recording industry. Currently, almost every new SACD in production is being made with our DSD converters.

And now, EMM Labs is bringing the same peerless level of performance into audiophile homes throughout the world. Our latest products are designed for a wide variety of applications and are, without question, the most sophisticated expression yet of EMM Labs innovation and technology.

 

[Nikhil]

Ed Meitner (EMM / Meitner) and Andreas Koch (Playback Designs) are the original DSD pioneers. They were at Sony earlier where they worked on developing the format.

Having said that the opinion these days is that doing the heavy lifting at the DAC chip is not ideal. Offline conversions are considered to be better as a computer has the resources available to do the number crunching. The current top dog is HQPlayer which runs circles around JRiver. In fact Foobar's converter is highly regarded upto 2xDSD. However GUI remains a lot to be desired in these alternatives.

 

[sidvee]

These are the product specs for Meitner MA-1 Dac - the only one showing on their site:

"Supported sampling rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192kHz at word
lengths up to 24 bits through all 6 digital inputs:
1 x USB
1 x AES/EBU
2 x TOSLINK S/PDIF
2 x COAX S/PDIF
MFAST asynchronous technology for instant signal acquisition, jitter-free
performance
MDAT signal processing technology:
Provides 2x DSD upsampling for PCM playback"

So it shows no native support for DSD, but upsampling via their own signal processing.

This is the specs for the Playback designs MPD3:

"Digital inputs: USB, AES/EBU, RCA
Analog outputs: 1x balanced (XLR), 1x unbalanced (RCA)
Support for DoP on all digital inputs
PCM input up to 384kHz, DSD up to 2x
Native DSD converter, dual differential"

It has decoding for native dsd signal without upsampling.This is what I meant in my previous post.

Anyways the Meitner MA-1 is available sometimes on Agon at $4k. So I would think at that price it is an excellent buy, however as of now I am considering the Bricasti M1 and if I can stretch it perhaps the Lampizator GG as an upgrade to My Ayon Skylla II sometime next year. I will try to listen to them prior to making a decision. As of now I will continue to listen to PCM in their native state without upsampling. I am not too comfortable with it at present - ofcourse I have not heard the meitner or others. I will also try different media options and check it out.

Cheers,
Sid

 

[yuppi]

These are the product specs for Meitner MA-1 Dac - the only one showing on their site:

"Supported sampling rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4 and 192kHz at word
lengths up to 24 bits through all 6 digital inputs:
1 x USB
1 x AES/EBU
2 x TOSLINK S/PDIF
2 x COAX S/PDIF
MFAST asynchronous technology for instant signal acquisition, jitter-free
performance
MDAT signal processing technology:
Provides 2x DSD upsampling for PCM playback"

So it shows no native support for DSD, but upsampling via their own signal processing.

This is the specs for the Playback designs MPD3:

"Digital inputs: USB, AES/EBU, RCA
Analog outputs: 1x balanced (XLR), 1x unbalanced (RCA)
Support for DoP on all digital inputs
PCM input up to 384kHz, DSD up to 2x
Native DSD converter, dual differential"

It has decoding for native dsd signal without upsampling.This is what I meant in my previous post.

Anyways the Meitner MA-1 is available sometimes on Agon at $4k. So I would think at that price it is an excellent buy, however as of now I am considering the Bricasti M1 and if I can stretch it perhaps the Lampizator GG as an upgrade to My Ayon Skylla II sometime next year. I will try to listen to them prior to making a decision. As of now I will continue to listen to PCM in their native state without upsampling. I am not too comfortable with it at present - ofcourse I have not heard the meitner or others. I will also try different media options and check it out.

Cheers,
Sid

Meitner Audio: MA-1 Stereo D/A Converter

"DSD-over-PCM" Upgrade
>
This 2-part update adds USB DoP 1.0 style DSD bitstreaming support.

 

[sidvee]

Meitner Audio: MA-1 Stereo D/A Converter

"DSD-over-PCM" Upgrade
>
This 2-part update adds USB DoP 1.0 style DSD bitstreaming support.

Still not native DSD. Anyways I guess the main discussion is kinda getting sidelined, I will reiterate my original goals - how does native DSD sound played back on a native DSD player? I have answered my own question in an earlier post, when I did hear this, and I am satisfied. I was just curious about PCM upsampling to DSD - Now I realize that there are various implementations to this with some camps claiming PCM upsampling to DSD and other claiming DSD downsampling to PCM is better, and then the whole software vs hardware upsampling discussions.
Too many variables for me, and I prefer to stick to the purist route for now.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[sidvee]

Ok last night I listened to an iso SACD rip of the DSD layer of the Miles Davis Sorcerer album. I have and also heard this album in CD, SACD, 16/44 flac, 24/192 flac and now the DSD. I am also intimately familiar with the album, being one of my favorites. To my mind it is a slam dunk. The DSD version sounds audibly superior - definitely equal to the SACD. The sound was superbly analog like with warmth along with excellent resolution of details and spatial cues with exceptional imaging and staging. I am now thoroughly convinced that native DSD is a superior format. Hope it gains traction and we get more and more releases.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Nikhil]

Sid,

I missed this post somehow. All I can say is welcome to the club.

The problem with DSD is getting material that is good and in the genre we like. At the moment it is slim pickings which makes it really a niche within what is already a niche (2 ch stereo). I'm hoping that there will more recordings available out there that will be released from Sony's DSD vaults.

 

[sidvee]

I'm hoping that there will more recordings available out there that will be released from Sony's DSD vaults.

Well I'll tell you what, I had the same hope when SACD discs were released. But somehow though the sound quality was superior, SACD never took hold - other than niches like western classical and some tired old rock artists - and finally Sony, I heard has pulled the plug on the physical format. Hopefully this time around with DSD they will persist, but I am already reading where early adopters are complaining about the price of these downloads, I think somewhere in the region of $30 and upwards. And if early adopters complain, think about the general listeners. So I have my fingers crossed. Let's see what happens.
Cheers,
Sid