Dsd

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And the other option that I have read to compensate for paucity of DSD releases is to use a DSD capable DAC with a media player like Jriver and let Jriver convert all files to DSD. Apparently this sounds quite good, perhaps not as good as native dsd but good nevertheless. Not sure if it would sound better than PCM played natively though.
Cheers,
Sid
 
One theory of the different (Superior ? ) sound of SACDs is the wideband noise present in the signal due to the absence of PCM's (brickwall) filters.

Taking PCM (with its builtin filter) and then Upsampling to DSD should by that reckoning be an unfruitful excersise.

I have never upsampled PCM to DSD. Will try soon, and compare to DSD (DoP).
 
jls001 said:
A new company has started selling DXD downloads :Promates: The World's First DXD Download Store | Stereophile.com
Click to expand...


DXD (Digital eXtreme Definition) is PCM 24-bit 352.8 kHz.
Not the same as DSD but supposed to offer sound better than DSD.
I have just one file and it's 3 times the size of a DSD file.

Sound is superb but again I am down sampling on JRiver to my 24/192 DAC.

Nice catch Joshua - did not know that a lot of SACD material is available in DXD format.
This would keep PCM relevant but files sizes would be insane - 5 GB per album at least.
 
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Have been in exactly the same dilemma, myself and was planning to start this very topic soon.
Came across this in my net trawls, not that I have done much of that with my current travels.
And, no, I haven't heard any DSD at all.
 
Naturelover said:
Came across this in my net trawls, not that I have done much of that with my current travels.
Click to expand...

I was quite tempted with the Loki especially since one of our FM had/has it for sale. I would say it is an excellent option if one does not want to give up a good sounding pcm dac, as DSD files are still very few.
Cheers,
Sid
 
The iFi IDSD is another very good candidate. Micro iDSD

Supposed to be the only DAC that plays Native Octa-DSD512/PCM768/Double DXD
 
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I've not got my feet wet with DSD as yet. The huge file sizes, and of course the fact that my DAC doesn't do DSD, has kept me off it so far. (I didn't know that I could have JRMC convert DSD to PCM for playback).

I did have an iFi Micro iDSD with me for a few days last month. I wanted to try it out with DSD, but I just couldn't find the time to download any (I barely got enough time to try the DAC out, at all). The iDSD plays DSD and DXD natively, without conversion to PCM.
 
Nikhil said:
DXD (Digital eXtreme Definition) is PCM 24-bit 352.8 kHz.
Not the same as DSD but supposed to offer sound better than DSD.
I have just one file and it's 3 times the size of a DSD file.

Sound is superb but again I am down sampling on JRiver to my 24/192 DAC.

Nice catch Joshua - did not know that a lot of SACD material is available in DXD format.
This would keep PCM relevant but files sizes would be insane - 5 GB per album at least.
Click to expand...

Try downconverting to 176.4 instead of 192. It'll probably sound better. Any non integer up/downsampling leads to massive aliasing artifacts.
 
sidvee said:
How many of you have heard this format on a DSD capable Dac? Any verdict when compared to PCM/Hirez?
Cheers,
Sid
Click to expand...

Hi there,
I recently purchased the Oppo BDP-105D universal player that plays SACDs among other things and a well-respected DAC as well. I sampled a SACD disc of Steppenwolf as well as an extensive list of DSF & DFF files using the 105D's playback capability as well using it as USB DAC for my PC.
I do have the same files in FLAC as well. To be honest I really couldn't discern any noticeable audio differences for remastered CD versions compared to DSD counterparts. Yes, DSD sounds noticeably louder. This was when I was listening to Rush's 1989 album release - Presto (Remastered). I tested CD, FLAC, SACD & DSD. TBH I couldn't really make out any difference in perceived clarity.

BUT....

All that changes when I popped in an old original CD issue of Spandau Ballet - Best Of. Compared to the CD, the DSD files sounded supremely phenomenal.
So I guess when you compare original CD masters of the early to late 80s to advanced HiRes-speced DSD format would definitely sound much better than the original CD versions...
 
aarmath said:
Hi there,
I recently purchased the Oppo BDP-105D universal player that plays SACDs among other things and a well-respected DAC as well. I sampled a SACD disc of Steppenwolf as well as an extensive list of DSF & DFF files using the 105D's playback capability as well using it as USB DAC for my PC.
I do have the same files in FLAC as well. To be honest I really couldn't discern any noticeable audio differences for remastered CD versions compared to DSD counterparts. Yes, DSD sounds noticeably louder. This was when I was listening to Rush's 1989 album release - Presto (Remastered). I tested CD, FLAC, SACD & DSD. TBH I couldn't really make out any difference in perceived clarity.

BUT....

All that changes when I popped in an old original CD issue of Spandau Ballet - Best Of. Compared to the CD, the DSD files sounded supremely phenomenal.
So I guess when you compare original CD masters of the early to late 80s to advanced HiRes-speced DSD format would definitely sound much better than the original CD versions...
Click to expand...

You may have a very valid point here....maybe due to better recording equipment, the late 80s onwards production CDs have better sound than the earlier ones and hence the remastered versions sound better than the originals...
 
panditji said:
You may have a very valid point here....maybe due to better recording equipment, the late 80s onwards production CDs have better sound than the earlier ones and hence the remastered versions sound better than the originals...
Click to expand...

Absolutely mate. I have a few CDs of Grateful Dead, Cream, Doors, INXS among others that were released in the mid 80s & they sound awful...
I do respect CDs but ironically when the Redbook standard has finally begun to shine, it has been superseded by a slew of new HD audio formats.
Although I wouldn't really put all my stock in DSD either since much of the content was originally mastered/authored in PCM. Having said that I am sure that pure end-to-end DSD would be a whole different experience altogether....
 
aarmath, have you run a Dynamic Range check on the same files from older CDs and their newer equivalents (PCM or DSD)? I have found that mostly the newer versions have been made louder which does sound noticeably better. Older files have DR values in the range of 12 - 15 on average whereas the newer files will be closer to 6 - 7.

Typically DSD files sound softer and have a cleaner sound throughout the entire range.
I find that I turn my volume knob easily over the 9 o clock position upto almost 11 o clock.
Difficult for me to turn up the volume that high with the newer songs.
 
So does Alan Shaw's (Harbeth Designer) theory of all well designed amps sounding almost the same hold true? He says the difference perceived is only due to loudness i.e. more watts will sound better...

Maybe there is some truth in what he says....
 
Guys my experience with SACD's discs and Hirez 24/96 flacs, wavs has been that there is an increase in dynamic range or reduction in compression, when compared to Cd's or standard rez. files. I can usually listen to my pre at 9-10 'o'clock with most standard rez. files which sound plenty loud, but with majority of hi-rez I can turn up my pre till 11 or even 12 'o' clock, as they sound quite soft at the 9'o' clock position. Secondly even at these higher levels, long listening sessions do not produce any fatigue at all and the macro dynamics are startling especially during drum attacks or louder passages which sounds closer to listening live - a direct effect of the increased dynamic range. Further while listening to SACD's, I find that high frequency reproduction especially trumpets at full tilt sound more smoother and more soothing than when listening to the same on 24/96, which while it sounds great and better than standard rez. sometimes makes me want to turn the volume lower. So perhaps while the differences are not night and day, to me they are quite obvious and I prefer this anyday. Of-course not having heard DSD rips, not sure if I will hear the same with them vs SACD's discs, but that is what I am trying to establish.
Cheers,
Sid
 
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Hi Nikhil,

I will run a check on the CDs, odds are they would be at the levels you have mentioned.
At the onset, I am inclined to agree with you on the "Loudness" factor. Case in point are select songs from original CDs of Depeche Mode's 80s albums & said songs being released as compilations about nearly two decades later. Yes, the compilation versions sound much louder than their original counterparts.

But Panditji...

Remasters, now that's a different story. I can confidently vouch on the enhanced audio detailing, especially on remastered CDs of Rush, Nick Drake, Rolling Stones' - Jump Back: The Best of The Rolling Stones (North America release in 2004) & SHM-CD versions of a few artists like Roxy Music, Asia, Tom Waits, U2 & The Who.
Check out U2's original album - Boy (1980) & the RM version released in 2008. Simply spectacular!!!

My list of favourite artists whose discography that I hope will be remastered someday are:
Eric Johnson
The Chambers Brothers
Iron Butterfly
The Small Faces
Three Dog Night
Medicine
The Lemonheads

et al....
 
Then maybe bad recordings/poor mastering can be improved by quite a bit but the ones which are fairly well recorded are made better or remastered by boosting the loudness levels to make it sound better....

So it would make sense to choose and buy hi-rez recordings for the value they might bring...
 
Has anybody auditioned the Northstar series of DSD DAC's, the Essensio, Excelsio etc? Also if anyone has heard Northstar DAC's what is their signature, it is clinical or warm?
Cheers,
Sid
 
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