Floor Standing Speaker + AVR Under 1.5 lacs

[nitinsanand]

And going by ur avr budget n requirement you could look at the marantz 5008/9/10 with a marginally increased allocation of resources

 

[pradeepalokraj]

Hi,
I am planning to buy JBL Cinema 500 with suitable Marantz AVR.
Please suggest any other BS speakers with Marantz AVR SR 5008/9/10.
Tannoy HTS-101 XP .......Have good review from Whathifi.....But no much other reveiews!

I am not finding much options for BS speakers with Good reviews!
Movies 50% & Music 50%.

Please suggest!

 

[raghupb]

@pradeepalokraj

For speakers, reviews/opinions are just a start. You have to listen to at least 4-5 brands and then arrive at a decision. 1 lakh is a very decent budget. Don't hurry the process.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[efernand1]

Hi Pradeep,

I posted a review a while back on BIC America speakers....check the speakers forum section

 

[pradeepalokraj]

Thanks..but Finally I have decided to buy B&W 600 series.......685 S2.....Then later I will add centre+souuround+sub.

I heard that B&W speakers hungry for power. please suggest me suitable AVR for this speakers:

Marantz
NOD.
Denon.
Harman Kardon.

 

[raghupb]

Congrats on deciding on BWs. They are good speakers, but some people say they are fussy about power.

If going for Marantz consider the SR lineup not the NR lineup.
Though features are similar in SR and NR, NR is spec'ed out to about 50Wpc 2ch driven. Whereas SR can give closer to 100Wpc 2ch driven.
Denon 1200 and upwards claims higher power output, but may not have the current to drive BWs during demanding sections of music and movies.

No experience with NAD and HK, so no comments. Been hearing the Pioneer with class D amps are also powerful; maybe you should add to the list.

Get the speakers and then carry them during audition if possible. This is the best way to figure out which AVR sounds best for BWs. In Bangalore you can audition all the above listed brands.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Arjun4]

Thanks..but Finally I have decided to buy B&W 600 series.......685 S2.....Then later I will add centre+souuround+sub.

I heard that B&W speakers hungry for power. please suggest me suitable AVR for this speakers:

Marantz
NOD.
Denon.
Harman Kardon.

Go for Marantz SR 5009 / 5010. Since 5010 is the latest in the series, you should be able to find a better deal for 5009.

Its 100W @ 8 ohm ( B&W 685 S2 is 8 Ohm speaker )
Also the receiver has got 2 HDMI 'monitor' outs.

685 | 600 Series | Bowers & Wilkins
Nominal impedance 8? (minimum 3.5?)
Crossover frequencies 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 25W - 100W into 8? on unclipped programme
Sensitivity 87dB spl (2.83V, 1m)

Marantz US | SR5010

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive) 100 W

 

[efernand1]

Hi Pradeep,

Congrats on your purchase....B&Ws pair well with Marantz...there are a lot of videos uploaded on YouTube which will support the same...

The SR series should be good enough.....5xxx or 6xxx series should work well...all depends on what you go for and your budget......if you are using a 5.1 setup...you can use the BI AMP mode and pump up the power to the B&Ws....

If you are open to pre owned, there is a 5008 available on HiFi Ads....i guess a new 5010 would cost around 70k-75k.

 

[venkatcr]

I heard that B&W speakers hungry for power. please suggest me suitable AVR for this speakers:

This is going to be a tough nut to crack. You have thrown your budget to the winds.

The B&W are indeed power hungry and would sound sick with low power. You would need to get an AVR that delivers 150-175 watts per channel into 6 Ohms two channel driven. Only the top end models provide those specs. They are going to be expensive.

If possible get an AVR with pre-outs and go for a two channel power amplifier for the FR and FL speakers. That maybe the best option.

Cheers

 

[pradeepalokraj]

Thank you all.

My plan is: 5.1 system.

1. B&W 685 S2 ---> FL & FR. + Suitable AVR.
2. B&W HTM62 S2 ---> Centre.
3. B&W 686 S2 ---> RL & RR.
4. Any good suitable ---> Sub.

My plan: Buy sl no.1;
Next in a 2 months sl no. 2 will buy;
Next in 6 months I will add sl no. 3 & 4.

@Venkatcr - you have mentioned 6 ohms but catalogue mentiones 8 ohms.......may I know why it is 6 ohms.....?

* My opinion: My room is not so big hence i believe I am not going to use full speaker power........Please comment if I am wrong.

* My Plan is 5.1 Hence If I will add AVR+Amp to front will increase my budget. Also is it required Extra Amp to Centre & Rear like front?

* The speaker performance depends on the Amp also (AVR+Amp) ? What if I will use any cheaper Amp with AVR?

 

[venkatcr]

@Venkatcr - you have mentioned 6 ohms but catalogue mentiones 8 ohms.......may I know why it is 6 ohms.....?

Because all AVRs always measure and mention 6 ohms load to specify their power output. The 8 ohms equivalent is only an approximation.

* The speaker performance depends on the Amp also (AVR+Amp) ? What if I will use any cheaper Amp with AVR?

If you buy an inexpensive AVR, be sure to get one with pre-out and add a power amp. Without that you will be disappointed with the B&Ws.

Cheers

 

[pradeepalokraj]

If you buy an inexpensive AVR, be sure to get one with pre-out and add a power amp. Without that you will be disappointed with the B&Ws.

Cheers

In AVR and Power Amp. which one I should go for branded one (Expensive).....? Please advice!

 

[venkatcr]

In AVR and Power Amp. which one I should go for branded one (Expensive).....? Please advice!

Expensive? Please specify your budget.

 

[pradeepalokraj]

My Budget to AVR is 60-70K.
I dont want to spend much on AVR. Hence I am more investing on speakers!

 

[raghupb]

Pradeep,

Don't be discouraged. BWs are good speakers but can be fussy with low wattage, mediocre current capacity power amp stage.

Here is my experience with BWs (they are the DM303 BS; 600s little brothers).
- Marantz PM7001 IA had no problem driving them (70Wpc with high current capability; I believe the claim)
- Marantz NR1605 AVR, I had to turn it up quite a bit leaving little headroom when required (50Wpc with high current capability; though I am not entirely convinced about the high current)
The Wpc are 8ohm, 20-20KHz ratings. Both IA & AVR are class AB amplifiers. Have turned them loud enough and not heard clipping.
Couple of times they have shutdown due to thermal protection, but this is my fault (bad air circulation)

For movies, until you get a sub they may sound under powered in sections with lots of LFE. Once the sub comes in and takes over LFE duty the AVR should manage.
For music it is a similar situation, but generally music does not contain very low frequencies for extended periods of time.

Having pre-out for at least front L/R, gives you the option of adding outboard amps in the future.
I have done this with 2 monoblock amps from Outlaw Audio (200Wpc class AB/G) for L/R connected to KEF R300s.
Center and surrounds are BW 300 series driven from AVR. I have no sub.

Branded? Even DIY amps are branded; the designer has put his/her heart and soul into it.
If you are convinced of BWs, get them and then go AVR shopping. Fix a budget and work with it judiciously. Good luck.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[venkatcr]

My Budget to AVR is 60-70K.
I dont want to spend much on AVR. Hence I am more investing on speakers!

Your way of choosing speakers first and then looking for an amplifier is right. But you are wrong about the way you are matching. You cannot plunk all your money on expensive speakers, and then have little leeway for amplification.

The 685s are rated at 25-100 watts at 8 ohms at a sensitivity of 87 dB. The 8 Ohms is important as is the sensitivity. Most AVRs under 75K would be able to deliver a max of 70-80 watts at 8 ohms. In other words, even to wake up the B&Ws (at 25 watts), you will be spending nearly 50% of the AVR's rated power. When the movie or music demands a peak, the AVR and speaker combination will certainly fail.

Generally in a movie system, the SPL would be set at around 75dB. This level of sound should consume only 30% of the amplifier's power. Movies tend to peak at upto 100dB, even if it is for a few seconds. But that 25 dB difference would put enormous strain on the amp.

If you use the following specs:

Listener distance from source - 3 meters
Desired level at listener distance - 75dB
Loudspeaker sensitivity - 87dB
Amp Headroom - 25 dB

For those specs, the required amp power is 180 watts!! Way beyond the capability of the sub 75K AVRs you are looking at.

I would say if you are looking at the B&Ws, getting any AVR that cannot deliver 150 watts into 8 ohms would be foolish. 150 watts into 8 ohms is roughly 200 watts into 6 ohms.

If I am limited by budget, I would look for speakers that are more sensitive and are easier to drive. As I said sometime before, if you are bent on the B&W, look at an Onkyo 800, a Pioneer LX59, a Denon 3300 or such. You total budget has to be around 3 lakhs if you want to have a really good system that does not stutter when you are watching movies.

Again, if you are bent on the B&W, get a budgetary AVR that has preouts, and install a two channel power amp. That would work out to 70K for the AVR and another 60-70 for an Indian two channel power amp. Either way you are looking at 1.5L for amplification.

Take your pick.
Cheers

 

[Arjun4]

I would say if you are looking at the B&Ws, getting any AVR that cannot deliver 150 watts into 8 ohms would be foolish. 150 watts into 8 ohms is roughly 200 watts into 6 ohms.
Cheers

Nominal impedance 8? (minimum 3.5?)
Crossover frequencies 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 25W - 100W into 8? on unclipped programme
Sensitivity 87dB spl (2.83V, 1m)

685 | 600 Series | Bowers & Wilkins

So are you suggesting an AVR above B&W recommendation for this speaker ?

 

[venkatcr]

Here is my experience with BWs (they are the DM303 BS; 600s little brothers).

There is huge difference between the 303 and the 600 series. The 303s were B&W's attempt to enter the budgetary market and compete with the ProAcs, the Wharfedales, etc. They have higher sensitivity and easier to drive. Instead of Kevlar that are hard to move, the 303s used fibreglass that are easier to move.

Though the 303 has excellent market acceptance, B&W did not produce too many of them and stopped their distribution. I don't know why. In my mind, B&W felt the 303s would lower their reputation. Mind you, the 303s are excellent speakers and I lust after them even today. But, the 600s are a different story.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

So are you suggesting an AVR above B&W recommendation for this speaker ?

You should always get a amp that can deliver a little more than the max wattage suggested by the manufacturer. Please read my other post where I have explained the reasons in terms of SPL, distance, and wattage required.

Speaker manufacturers use specialized rooms for testing. These room have 0db noise. Really zero db. No one sits inside the room, and sound levels are measured at various distances under controlled circumstances. There is nothing disturbing the sound as it travels from the speaker to the highly sensitive
mike.

In the real world your room is never quiet. There is at least 20db of peripheral noise at all times. Thus those specs have no value in the real world. You have to add at least 50% more power in the real world.

B&W are different. They use Kevlar for the drivers. Kevlar is hard to move. If you pump 25-30 watts to the 600s, it wont even wake up.

Cheers

 

[raghupb]

Pradeep,
Venkat has a very valid point. Kevlar (the bullet proof material). Please rethink BWs or up your budget for avr/amp.
What other speakers have you auditioned? Did you check out the PSB minis?

Cheers,
Raghu