Footers, isolators, what works, when and why?

Seen this..

They pay high amounts for these Townshends and swear they work miracles...

It's beyond most of us..

:))

But I get your point...it's the concept

But is it really the concept. I mean rotating a motor connected to a stick on top of a speaker stand, vibrating a cute elephant with a spring, sometimes my mind says yes logical and sometimes it says rubbish. Its no different than saying less pollution causing speed changes in sound.
 
But is it really the concept. I mean rotating a motor connected to a stick on top of a speaker stand, vibrating a cute elephant with a spring, sometimes my mind says yes logical and sometimes it says rubbish. Its no different than saying less pollution causing speed changes in sound.
which is why each one of us has to choose our own poison

there are no absolutes here

this is just a hobby

something to keep us going..

The guys spending money on those Townshends would be very rich but they ( atleast most of them ) will be sensible as well to trash it if it doesnt work.
 
which is why each one of us has to choose our own poison

there are no absolutes here

this is just a hobby

something to keep us going..

The guys spending money on those Townshends would be very rich but they ( atleast most of them ) will be sensible as well to trash it if it doesnt work.

You maybe right. I agree these things do cause a change but is it for better is the question. Some novice like me would prefer to hear his equipment the same way as the designer intended the sound to be. Afterall if there is anyone i would put my trust for sound, it would be on maker of equipment and not on a third party. Thats my poison until now.
 
You maybe right. I agree these things do cause a change but is it for better is the question. Some novice like me would prefer to hear his equipment the same way as the designer intended the sound to be. Afterall if there is anyone i would put my trust for sound, it would be on maker of equipment and not on a third party. Thats my poison until now.

aftermarket car kits are each persons choice

:))

its s similar situation really.
 
If you read my post, I have not doubt as to whether isolators affect sq. I believe they do and I hear the difference. My question was what factors or variables affect the value they add, both +ve and -ve.
These are the obvious ones:
  1. The quality of the original feet fitted on the equipment
  2. The weight of equipment and the thickness of its base
  3. The quality of the equipment rack
  4. The additional height created by the isolator when used. This can cause the sound waves and air between the shelf and equipment to behave differently.
What other factors determine whether an isolator will add value or not? And what kind of isolator - rollers, spikes, magnetic decouplers, would be useful under what circumstances? In the same setup, why do different types of isolators work differently under different equipment? Is trial and error the only method to select an isolator?
In my experience, the best reviewed and expensive isolators can often have a negative impact. And I'm tending to believe that if the equipment rack is firm and non-resonant, if one is using fairly good brands, if the equipment is heavy, and there are no abnormal factors in the room that cause vibrations, it may be a good idea to stick with stock feet. For lighter equipment, I've found that placing weights on top has a better impact than isolating footers. (I'm not talking about speakers here, that's a completely different story).

Over to you, experts....
 
In my experience, the best reviewed and expensive isolators can often have a negative impact. And I'm tending to believe that if the equipment rack is firm and non-resonant, if one is using fairly good brands, if the equipment is heavy, and there are no abnormal factors in the room that cause vibrations, it may be a good idea to stick with stock feet.

I wholly concur with this. Infact its true for free isolators as well. I once suspended my allo digione from threads in air. I thought i liked the sound but after couple of days it was like no this is not right. So that made me think that equipment is designed and voiced while keeping it on a firm surface only, we can change its sound signature to something else using suspension or isolation from ground but that wont be its true nature of sound. I have experienced same earlier with my naim amp and current dac preamp amp also even laptop.

The quality of the original feet fitted on the equipment worries me alot. That should be addressed i feel.
 
What I am learning (the hard way) is that in most cases our reaction is to ‘the different sound’. And usually, unless something is badly off, we tend to like the newness in that sound. Guess that’s human nature. It’s only after a longer period (say around a month) the newness subsides. That is a better time to evaluate the addition/mod one has done. And one of the best indicators is to check ‘how much am Iistening to music with this changed sound?’ If one is regaining that insatiable appetite to listen and continue to listen and enjoy to music, perhaps it worked. On the other hand, if one keeps finding oneself still listening to the sound, it’s likely that the change, while we liked its newness, also took something away that mattered.
 
If you read my post, I have not doubt as to whether isolators affect sq. I believe they do and I hear the difference. My question was what factors or variables affect the value they add, both +ve and -ve.
These are the obvious ones:
  1. The quality of the original feet fitted on the equipment
  2. The weight of equipment and the thickness of its base
  3. The quality of the equipment rack
  4. The additional height created by the isolator when used. This can cause the sound waves and air between the shelf and equipment to behave differently.
What other factors determine whether an isolator will add value or not? And what kind of isolator - rollers, spikes, magnetic decouplers, would be useful under what circumstances? In the same setup, why do different types of isolators work differently under different equipment? Is trial and error the only method to select an isolator?
In my experience, the best reviewed and expensive isolators can often have a negative impact. And I'm tending to believe that if the equipment rack is firm and non-resonant, if one is using fairly good brands, if the equipment is heavy, and there are no abnormal factors in the room that cause vibrations, it may be a good idea to stick with stock feet. For lighter equipment, I've found that placing weights on top has a better impact than isolating footers. (I'm not talking about speakers here, that's a completely different story).

Over to you, experts....

I had recently purchased a well reviewed isolation product which I passed on after a month since it took away something unquantifiable from the way MY ( forgive) ears like the music.

I am not a detail freak and I was getting too many for my liking.

It may wholly be possible that it's not about the product at all but what the listener likes to hear.

Like it or not our ears ( by extension our brain ) are coloured as well..

Holi hai !!
 
I had recently purchased a well reviewed isolation product which I passed on after a month since it took away something unquantifiable from the way MY ( forgive) ears like the music.

I am not a detail freak and I was getting too many for my liking.

It may wholly be possible that it's not about the product at all but what the listener likes to hear.

Like it or not our ears ( by extension our brain ) are coloured as well..

Holi hai !!

So you are officially the third person in this thread who went back to stock feet.
 
Hi....
Apart from isolators and spikes. There is also a 3rd option, which is free. It is called mass damping.

Vibrations in a audio chain are essentially of two types :

1. Floor borne vibrations - isolation works here better than spikes. As spikes couple the kit to the floor. So the speakers vibrations are passed into the floor . And if the wooden rack also has spikes, then this vibration will crawl up into the rack, and subsequently into the kit placed on top. How much gets through, depends on the bass ability of the speakers.

2. Air borne vibrations - especially effect lighter components like streamers and dac's. Adding a heavy book or two of the casing works dampen this.

So probably no single solution, I guess. Even Iam going through my own experiments at this moment. And I don't have snake ears to make a definite judgement. But I since paid for them, they are staying in place :D
 
Hi....
Apart from isolators and spikes. There is also a 3rd option, which is free. It is called mass damping.

Vibrations in a audio chain are essentially of two types :

1. Floor borne vibrations - isolation works here better than spikes. As spikes couple the kit to the floor. So the speakers vibrations are passed into the floor . And if the wooden rack also has spikes, then this vibration will crawl up into the rack, and subsequently into the kit placed on top. How much gets through, depends on the bass ability of the speakers.

2. Air borne vibrations - especially effect lighter components like streamers and dac's. Adding a heavy book or two of the casing works dampen this.

So probably no single solution, I guess. Even Iam going through my own experiments at this moment. And I don't have snake ears to make a definite judgement. But I since paid for them, they are staying in place :D

Good to read this @newlas09!
Yes, mass damping of speaker stands and equipment racks play a big role. I would like to also emphasize the importance of airspace control - often isolators that increase the air gap between the rack and equipment are counter-productive because of this. In such cases, it helps to insert a sheet of foam in the empty airspace.
 
Good to read this @newlas09!
Yes, mass damping of speaker stands and equipment racks play a big role. I would like to also emphasize the importance of airspace control - often isolators that increase the air gap between the rack and equipment are counter-productive because of this. In such cases, it helps to insert a sheet of foam in the empty airspace.

Thanks sir...that was new to me. Almost all my kit sits on various isolators and dampers. Never gave a thought to the air space below. Will attempt it this time as suggested. Thanks again :)
 
Thanks sir...that was new to me. Almost all my kit sits on various isolators and dampers. Never gave a thought to the air space below. Will attempt it this time as suggested. Thanks again :)
Playing with the air space will definitely impact the sound, but it may not be a good idea to stuff and eliminate all such spaces. Need to experiment and check what works in favour and what doesn't. In my case, only equipment that had additional height due to isolators needed attention.
 
Here's a simple and useful write-up on the subject of isolation:
"There are six basic sound isolation concepts: decoupling, damping, mass, absorption, resonance, and conduction. Taking each of these principles into account will maximize the performance of your sound isolation project".
 
A related issue is the centre weight on a vinyl. I have often found the sound improving when the centre weight is removed. Maybe the weight, when placed, causes the record to press harder against the mat, resulting in the sound characteristics of the mat gaining prominence?
 
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