HD Audio vs. DVD Audio ( DTS HD MA vs. DTS )

[no1lives4ever]

acoustics & no1livesforever,

thanks for a detailed discussion on this topic.... i've got a learn a lot with the same. Although i guess we have still not reached a conclusion as to whether DTS HD MA sounds way better than DTS Core ( both found on same Bluray Disc ) there is something else which i'd like to ask here....

My AVR is 6 yrs old and i guess it's accurate to say that the RX V450 when it was sold new in 2005 must have been in the "entry level" range.

So keeping the DTS HD MA vs. DTS Core discussion aside for a moment, would it make a huge/significant difference to general performance if i simply got one of the newer "middle level" models like the RX V 2067 ?

I mean will the RX V 2067 ( or a equivalent "middle range avr" from another brand like say maybe NAD T747, Onkyo 808 etc ) make a significant improvement which i can hear over my current ageing RX V450 ?

If the answer to above is a Empathetic/Resounding "Yes".... then it makes sense for me to get a new AVR and by default that will also give me hdmi, hd audio decoding, auto room calibaration etc.

But it the answer is "No" then i might as well stick to my RX V450 which i believe can atleast decode "DTS Core" via optical cable from a bluray player. ( is that correct ? )

A midrange AVR like the Yamaha RX V2067, NAD T 747, Onkyo 808 etc will cost me at least in the region of about 70k to 80k.

So does 70k to 80k brings me a Huge jump in sound quality over my RX V450 ?

I have a simple solution. Talk to a few dealers and ask for an audition of a BluRay player + a modern AVR at your home. Or else carry your AVR and do a preliminary set of auditions. That will answer your queries. I would also suggest that you look at a cheaper level of AVRs like the Denon 1911/2311, Onkyo 608/609, etc in addition to the mid levels ones you state.

To me it seems like you are looking at a reason to upgrade your AVR and you should in theory get better quality sound output from a more modern AVR.

IMO one thing with modern AVRs is the addition of room correction technology like Audyssey. Audyssey can make setting up and tuning a 5.1 AVR significantly easier. It does wonders in a typical untreated living room or bedroom. Do not discount this feature when looking at new AVRs. After using the Audyssey in my 1910, I will not get any AVR w/o auto room correction. That is unless I set up a home theater in a special room with proper acoustic treatment. This is also one feature that is very difficult to audition outside your home.

Do note that over the years, most manufacturers have been guilty of decreasing the overall quality of their AVRs, so your entry level Yamaha AVR from 6 years back may have better quality than the current generation AVRs of similar type.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[acoustics]

@ no1lives4ever
can you plz tell me about the details of your current setup and what kind of room treatment have you used and what was the basic approach you used to treat your room?

 

[no1lives4ever]

@ no1lives4ever
can you plz tell me about the details of your current setup and what kind of room treatment have you used and what was the basic approach you used to treat your room?

I do not have any room treatments done. My setup is in my bedroom, so the presence of the bed helps a lot with the reflections. I have a few small floor mats (dari). My basic approach to room treatment has been to use Audyssey. It does a great job for my setup. Future plans include adding some sound absorbing cloth boards on the empty walls. When the Audyssey setup happens, there are audible reflections with some speakers.

My setup is as follows:

Source: PS3 for BluRay and Games, Asus O!Play Mini - For music and ripped movies, TataSky+ HD,Laptop - also for music and ripped movies - All connected using HDMI
AVR - Denon 1910
Speakers - Jamo S718 Floor Standers, S60 Center & S60 surrounds, no sub

The AVR + speakers cost me around 80k a year back. I use no name thick speaker cables and the front speakers are bi-amped.

Now this system does not really show much difference between 1.5mbps DTS tracks on ripped movies and the DTS HD MA tracks on the same BluRay discs. The PQ difference between the BluRay disc and the rips are more noticeable.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[acoustics]

the magnitude of quality difference between the core and the extension cant be judged by watching one or two movies at an av dealers place, before we even go for an audition we have to be aware of what and how we have to listen to
heres a link to a small video by evelyn glennie who tells us one simple thing
how to listen

Evelyn Glennie shows how to listen | Video on TED.com

Take a look/listen to the video. You'll never listen to sound the same

evelyn glennie is a deaf since the age of 12

heres a list of bluray titles which will give u a blow away experience of the dts hdma

The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy
Inception
Shutter Island
Sherlock Holmes
Avatar Extended Collector's Edition
toy story
saving private ryan
pearl harbour
the devil

 

[no1lives4ever]

@acoustics, when I got my system, I did all the research into HD audio, checked out the various reviews and I was hoping to get a significant quality bump with the HD audio codecs v/s the regular DVD codecs.

And in the end i figured that DTS core is a very good codec. It definitely is not as good as the HD codecs, but the real quality difference to me is too small to actually consider a AVR upgrade or pay extra for HD audio. I was lucky that all the AVRs that i had shortlisted supported HD codecs. I would rather spend money on getting better speakers, room treatment or more bluray discs.

One thing to note is that DTS core on bluray discs is not the same as DTS on DVDs. There is a big difference in the 1.5mbps DTS core on bluray movies with DTS HD MA and 768kbps DTS streams used on DVDs.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[reignofchaos]

Even on my entry level Onkyo TX-SR577, the difference between the lossless and lossy codecs is pretty damn huge. This is on entry level paradigms. I wonder how it will be if I ever connected the ushers to it.

 

[rana_kirti]

a question's been wondering me.....

Which AVR would be the equivalent of the RX V 450 in the current Yamaha's 2010 range ?