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Wharfedale Evo 4.2

partho

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My dear friends, I am Partho from Chennai. Good evening to all of you. I am an audio fan since my teenage. I am following this forum for a long time, as I find it very useful and informative regarding audio. This is my first post. I want to participate in the forum discussions to enrich my knowledge in audio. I appreciate your good works and request you to keep it up. Thanks.
 

venkatcr

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Welcome to HiFiVision, Partho. As you know this is a public forum, and everyone can participate. In addition to participating in discussion, please also share your experience with music, movies, equipment, and vendors.

Cheers
 

jeevabobby26

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hi to all,
im jeeva from audio galaxy, chennai. im very much new to this hifi-vision forum family.im actually a mechanical engineer, but loved music and music systems from my initial school days and my interest in music and music related things has grown in searching different kind of systems. when i first used to see an a/v showroom in chennai as a 5.1 channel set-up, i really think suddenly, one day i will sure open a showroom like this as my own............yes , now i did it, i have mu own showroom in chennai, ambattur, my dream came alive and live, now im a exclusive dealer of Torvin audio systems, yamaha systems, mission speakers and more............im very proud to be the part of this family...............


thank you guys,
here in hifi-vivsion.
 

partho

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Thank you Venkatcr for your reply. I am an audio fan. I love to listen to all kind of music (Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, English) which includes classical, romantic, modern, Kawali, sufi etc. if it is melodious. I love to listen to Lata Mangeshkar, Kishor Kumar, Mhd. Rafi, S.P. Balasubramanium, Manna Dey, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan etc.
My present audio-video system includes:

Marantz 7.1 AV Receiver SR4600,
One pair Monitor Audio RS1 bookshelf speaker,
Centre & Rear speaker from local brand,
Marantz CD 5001 CD player,
Sony DVD player,
MX brand speaker wire, coaxial digital & analog interconnects.

I am very happy with the system. I use the system for stereo music mainly. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to Dynaudio audience 52 with NAD 372 amplifier at Decibel. I was so impressed that I could not resist myself from buying the Dynaudio audience 52 speakers. Now I am planning to sell my AV Receiver, speaker package and buy a decent integtated amplifier. Would you please throw some light on the integrated amplifier which can drive Dynaudio audience 52 speakers efficiently. My budget is Rs.50000 only.
Regards,
Partho.
 

venkatcr

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I am very happy with the system. I use the system for stereo music mainly. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to Dynaudio audience 52 with NAD 372 amplifier at Decibel. I was so impressed that I could not resist myself from buying the Dynaudio audience 52 speakers. Now I am planning to sell my AV Receiver, speaker package and buy a decent integtated amplifier. Would you please throw some light on the integrated amplifier which can drive Dynaudio audience 52 speakers efficiently. My budget is Rs.50000 only. Regards, Partho.

Partho, I think you are true audiophile. You have understood the importance and beauty of a two channel system, and are ready to sacrifice your HT system in its favour. Bravo!!!

Let us wait for a day or two for people like Marsilians, Asit, Dinyaar, ROC, Squarewave, TheVortex to chip in with their suggestions. They are much better at stereo amp/speaker combinations than I am.

BTW, the Dynaudio 52 are lovely speakers. I have heard them a few times at Decibel and it is a good choice.

Cheers
 
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partho

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Dear Venkatcr, I know all these members Marsilians, Asit, Dinyaar, ROC, Squarewave, TheVortex as I am following this forum for a long time. I am really excited for the opportunity to communicate with you all as my hobby & interest are similar to you. Thanks for your reply. Please keep on posting.
Regards,
Partho.
 

marsilians

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Hi Partho

Welcome to the forum. I have to 'wow' for your on the spur decision. It sounds like love at first sight (or sound)!

If you purchased the special edition, they have tweeters & some internals from the Contour Reference line which are considered best in class for their performance.

First observation about your old setup. I see that you did not timbre match your front speakers. your center was different than L/R. Did you ensure the C was matched properly as this could be one of the reasons for the vocals to not sound right.

2nd observation about your components - you have decent components though they are inclined towards not the 'best match' for your music listening. You seem to listen to vocalists with a tendency for higher pitch in their singing except Manna Dey. The Marantz 5001 though quite detailed and smooth, does roll off at the top end.

As you favoured the Dynaudio 52 signature (I am not sure what you listened to), I want to point out that these are slightly less efficient and high impedence speakers. So they will start to sound much better when driven by a power ful amp. Also they need about 150-200 hours of break in period to be able to appreciate the soundstage (if you believe in that concept). Having said this, I think any of the following will sound excellent with them.

- NuForce IA 7 v2 (slightly above your budget but one of the best sounding amps).
- Arcam A70
- Nad C352
- Cambridge Audio 740

As an aside, if you move more into instrumentals and heavy jazz, I suggest adding a sub as the sound will just sound phenomenoal with that setup.

Very good choice. Good luck and happy listening.


Thank you Venkatcr for your reply. I am an audio fan. I love to listen to all kind of music (Bengali, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, English) which includes classical, romantic, modern, Kawali, sufi etc. if it is melodious. I love to listen to Lata Mangeshkar, Kishor Kumar, Mhd. Rafi, S.P. Balasubramanium, Manna Dey, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan etc.
My present audio-video system includes:

Marantz 7.1 AV Receiver SR4600,
One pair Monitor Audio RS1 bookshelf speaker,
Centre & Rear speaker from local brand,
Marantz CD 5001 CD player,
Sony DVD player,
MX brand speaker wire, coaxial digital & analog interconnects.

I am very happy with the system. I use the system for stereo music mainly. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to Dynaudio audience 52 with NAD 372 amplifier at Decibel. I was so impressed that I could not resist myself from buying the Dynaudio audience 52 speakers. Now I am planning to sell my AV Receiver, speaker package and buy a decent integtated amplifier. Would you please throw some light on the integrated amplifier which can drive Dynaudio audience 52 speakers efficiently. My budget is Rs.50000 only.
Regards,
Partho.
 
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partho

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Hallo Mr. Marsilian,

Thank you for your prompt reply. Actually I was always inclined towards stereo music only. My purchase of AV receiver was an accident. Three years back when my sony sound system amplifier stopped working, I thought of purchasing a reasonable integrated amplifier and a pair of good bookshelf speakers. My budget for amplifier was Rs.25000. NAD 320 BEE was not available in Chennai. Marantz PM7200 was selling at Rs.35000. This was a good amplifier but out of my budget. Hence I purchased SR4600 AV receiver which is quite decent in stereo music.
Regarding speaker my choice was very limited. My first choice was Monitor audio BR2 which was out of stock. I liked the sound of Energy C3 bookshelf along with Marantz integrated amplifier. I also liked Monitor audio silver RS1 bookshelf. Finally I choose Monitor audio silver RS1 as both me & my better half was very impressed with the its look & performance.

Recently I have purchased the Audience 52. It is not the special edition. Still it sounds magical with NAD 372. But I had to wait for an hour keeping the amplifier switch on so that it gets warmed up. The demo was a great experience. The sound had everything in my view.

The bass was fast, tight, punchy & clear.
Midrange was clear & smooth.
Higher frequencies ware well controlled & sweet.

I will be very happy if I am able to buy NAD 352 /NAD 355 / NAD 372 to play along with my Audience 52.

NAD 352 seems out of market, NAD 355/ NAD372 too costly. I am even thinking of buying used NAD 352 /NAD 372 from some forum member if available. Will the NAD 352/ NAD 355 be sufficient to drive Dyna 52?

Nu force amplifier I haven't heard but I know it is excellent. How much it costs? Is it available in Chennai.

How is Marantz PM7003/ PM8003? Can they drive the Dyna 52? Please excuse me for my long list of questions.

Thanks & regards,
Partho.
 

thevortex

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Partho - congrats on the new speaker purchase. And as everybody has said, your decision is not only bold but also smacks of a certain clarity of mind that is enviable in this Hifi hobby of ours!:)

The Audience 52 is a speaker that I have heard many times and have been impressed with it no end. Its impedence figures make it seem like it would be a very hard speaker to drive. But really nothing could be farther from the truth. I have listened to this particular speaker with various amps - my own Marantz receiver (SR4001), NAD C325BEE, Yamaha RXV663, MusicHall a25 and Primare amps. There is not a combination here that I did not like.

Personally I prefer the Marantz sound and that particular combination really went well with exactly the right amount of presence, life and warmth. The really surprising thing as I was discussing with Raghu of Decibel was that this speaker despite a lower sensitivity score than some other speakers was able to keep up in the volume stakes effortlessly. It was curious but was wholly welcome.

Do give the MusicHall integrated receiver a try. It is just 50 Watts but what power it has it knows how to use! I was impressed to no end with that amp. I also like the Marantz-Dynaudio combination. So do give this a try.

In general I really thought that this speaker thinks of itself as a floorstander rather than a bookshelf - I think I read this in some review, but when auditioning it really found that the comment was true. Surprising amount of bass for such a small enclosure. Also it is well balanced and not overhanging - very good for music.

The Arcams are also a very good match for the Dynaudios as may also be the Creeks. The best person to provide you more pointed advise on this would be Raghu as he deals with these products.
 

Asit

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Hi Partho,

Welcome to the forum. Venkat has named me in a group of people at least some of them if not all are real experts and also very experienced with all kinds of audio equipments. Although I have been listening to stereo separates for a very long time now, I am NOT an expert. However, I can list the possibilities for you.

Your Dynaudio Audience 52 speakers are good, but they come with a nominal impedance of 4 Ohms and sensitivity of 86 db/W/m. This actually means that these speakers are not the easiest loads to drive. You need a bit powerful amps to drive them, Marsilians has already made this point in the above. The reason the Nad 372 amp drove them very well was because that amp is quite powerful.

Upto around 50K, the following amps are available

CA 740 A
Nad 352 (already replaced by the c355bee, but if you can find an older one)
Marantz PM 7001/7003/8003
Creek Evo
Arcam FMJ A 18 (Arcam Diva A70 and A80 etc are discontinued now)
Rega Brio 3 and Mira 3
A few Rotels (not sure about the models)
Music Hall A 25.2

Some of the above amps may NOT drive your speakers well, because apart from the CA740A and perhaps a few others, most of the amps in the above list have just 50 Watts per channel at 8 Ohm or thereabouts. Experts will give more qualified comments. However, since you have already bought your speakers and they are just about 6 kg each, you can and should carry them around to each amp dealer and test out with your own good CDs how is the amp-speaker combination, if the amp is being able to drive the speakers well and how nice is the sound etc.

If you can increase your budget to a bit above 60K, you can perhaps get hold of the Marantz PM 15 S1 amp. I have been told that this is a very good value at that price (the actual price is about 90 K or above, for some reason it is now available at a much lower price). I hope this one drives your speakers well, experts what do you say?

Best wishes in your amp search!

Note added later: After writing my post, I just discovered that thevortex has also written a post suggesting that the Audience speakers may not be as hard to drive. Well, it is better then. However just carry them around and audition and see which ones are bringing out the last available juice from these speakers.
 
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partho

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Hello Marsilians,
Thanks for your reply. I have a few more questions to all forum members.
Can you tell me how is the drive capability & performance of new Arcam FMJ A18 amplifier?
As we know it is only a 50 watt amplifier, will it be able to drive Audience 52 effortlessly?
Which amplifier will be a better choice (both in terms of drive & quality) for Audience 52, the new NAD 355 or Arcam FMJ A18?
How Marantz PM 7200 amplifier performs with Audience 52?
How a QUAD 909 power amplifier performs with Audience 52?
I request all forum member friends to post their views & experiences in this regard.

Regards,
Partho.
 

partho

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Hello Asit,
Thank you for your reply. Please tell me who is selling Marantz PM 15 S1 at Rs.60k along with bill & warranty? One month back I got an offer from Refex Pro Acoustics (the official distributor of Marantz) at Rs.80k. By the way in Kolkata the Arcam Diva range integrated amplifiers are still available at discounted price?

Regards,
Partho.
 

Asit

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Hi Partho,

1. Bass Treble, Coimbatore has sold a Marantz PM 15S1 to one of the forum members by the name "Dali" in the last few months at 63K. Another member member Sidharth_Trehan also has the same amp, I think. They know about the seller in Coimbatore, I guess. Find out about bill and warranty and whether that is an authorized Marantz dealer. You can send PMs to the members to find out more. Look at page 5 of the following thread:
http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/2331-dali-ikon2-speakers-5.html
(if you can, please read the whole thread).

2. SKS Traders Kolkata had only a Diva A 90 last time (a week ago) I enquired. That is priced at 89K, so no discount. They sold their last A 70 piece at 50K a month ago, again at no discount. In Mumbai and other places, there were discounts going on before the older models gave way to the newer FMJ amps. I guess in Kolkata it is still the seller's market.

3. The Quad 909 is a power amp and would drive your speakers and a lot more effortlessly, however, you need a pre-amp with that. This amp is in a different class altogether from other amps so far discussed in this thread.

4. Although I have not heard any of the newer FMJ amps from Arcam, I would imagine they are all very clean sounding. The FMJ A 28 at about 70K would definitely drive your speakers well, but I do not know about the A 18. Forum member "particleman" owns the A 28, and you can find from him more. He has coupled this amp with a pair of MA speakers.

5. The word that is going around is that the newer Nad c355bee amp is pricier and inferior than the older 352 amp which was very very good for the money. See if you can find an older one.

6. The Nad and the Arcam sounds are very different. The Arcam produces a very clean and musical sound (at least to me) with good dynamic range and the Nad is not clean sounding, the sound is colored a bit, but it is 'musical' and the available dynamic range is good for the price with a huge soundstage (the older Nads that is, have not heard the newer ones). You have to hear both with your speakers to see which you like.

7. At the end, let me say, since you have already the speakers, you should now audition all the amps in your shorlist with your speakers and decide. Chennai, unlike Kolkata, has many stores and many brands are readily available there. There are members from Chennai like Venkat and Vortex who can guide you about the stores.
 

particleman

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Forum member "particleman" owns the A 28, and you can find from him more. He has coupled this amp with a pair of MA speakers.

Thanks, Asit. Yes, I am happy to answer any queries about my setup but I am afraid they will be the answers of a layperson with no technical grasp of the subject. I have the A28 with the Monitor Audio RS6.

I would describe the sound of this combination as laid-back, clean and non-fatiguing. Many reviewers have pronounced the Arcam "dull and uninvolving" but to me it means easy listening for many hours. I listen mostly to Jazz, Blues and Classic Rock so it serves rather well.

I find that the warmth of the Arcam with its slightly rolled off treble is the perfect complement to the metal tweeters of the RS6. So there is a good balance and as the RS6 breaks in (I am guilty of not giving the system enough time) the sound gets more mellow and enjoyable.

The Arcam may not be very fast paced but it makes up for it with very dark black passages that help with the "being there" effect. Especially nice for classic Jazz recordings like Bill Evans, Art Blakey or Paul Desmond.

I do not plug the rear ports and find the speakers need some distance from the front wall as a result. The Arcam amp of course does not have tone controls but this is probably for the best. I am told the phono stage (built-in) is extremely good but I have had no opportunity to test it.

I especially like its "max vol on" feature which lets you set the volume (which is digital, btw) when it is switched on. It is also not very tall so that is good for a small space as I have. One tiny, superficial "gripe" I might have is that it is rather modest looking :).

The A28 is good for a small room. It struggles when used for movies or classical music and so I am wondering whether to invest in a modest AV receiver instead. Like all Arcams, it has an excellent upgrade path and works as a preamp when paired with a FMJ power amp; but I expect I will not need to do this as I listen at fairly medium volume. Perhaps if I move to a bigger house.

My cables are Chord Cobra for interconnects and Lyrita Audio terminated bare (amp) and banana (speaker).

Right now my source is a DVD player so that is clearly the weak link but I am satisfied with the sound. I hope to add a dedicated (SA)CD player soon.

Do let me know if I can provide any other clarifications, etc.
 

partho

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Hello Particleman,
Thank you for your response. In this world no body is perfect/expert. All of us are learners only. A audio product review is important if it is felt by heart & comes from the heart. Hence please please write what ever you felt during long listening sessions. You are the user hence must be better judge.
My set up is Monitor audio Silver RS1 with Marantz 7.1 SR4600 AV receiver. Recently I purchased a pair of Dynaudio Audience 52. I want to purchase FMJ A28 if I can sell RS1 & AV receiver. I will use A28 to drive Dyna 52. Have you ever tried A28 with Dyna 52? I am also not an expert in audio. I have heard that Dyna 52 is a difficult speaker to drive and also a difficult speaker to match with amplifiers to perform at its best. What is your experience?

regards,
Partho.
 

thevortex

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Hello Particleman,
Thank you for your response. In this world no body is perfect/expert. All of us are learners only. A audio product review is important if it is felt by heart & comes from the heart. Hence please please write what ever you felt during long listening sessions. You are the user hence must be better judge.
My set up is Monitor audio Silver RS1 with Marantz 7.1 SR4600 AV receiver. Recently I purchased a pair of Dynaudio Audience 52. I want to purchase FMJ A28 if I can sell RS1 & AV receiver. I will use A28 to drive Dyna 52. Have you ever tried A28 with Dyna 52? I am also not an expert in audio. I have heard that Dyna 52 is a difficult speaker to drive and also a difficult speaker to match with amplifiers to perform at its best. What is your experience?

regards,
Partho.

Partho - as mentioned earlier, the Audience 52's impedence numbers seem to suggest a hard to drive speaker with only modest sensitivity. However I have heard it paired with various amps and even in comparison with some highly sensitive speakers I have not heard it fall behind.

I have heard it driven effortlessly by an 80W Marantz receiver as well as the 50W MusicHall a25.2. Of course the more powerful your amplification, Dynaudio says, better results. My suggestion would be to try and hook up your Marantz to the Dynaudios and see if you find anything lacking. Have you already tried this out?
 

marsilians

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Hello Marsilians,
Thanks for your reply. I have a few more questions to all forum members.
Can you tell me how is the drive capability & performance of new Arcam FMJ A18 amplifier?

As we know it is only a 50 watt amplifier, will it be able to drive Audience 52 effortlessly?

I am travelling a bit now and I am going to be auditioning this product in detail in about 2 weeks along with their 600 AVR. I am a bit hesitant to jump over this simply because their ratings for the Diva line were something on the lines of 50wpc at 8 ohms and 100 at 4. Arcam is quite consevating and the power ratings are generally good though I know that 100 wpc is a stretch. Despite this for the A18 they are quoting only 70 wpc at 4 ohms. My outstanding question is, has Arcam gone cheap with the power module while bringing the FMJ technology to their cheaper line? The AVR 600 is a premium product quoted at 4200 USD. So lets see.

This is the reason I did not suggest the fmj to you earlier but the old diva line the 70/80 should do a pretty fine job.

Sound quality is great form the little I have heard from the A 18. So you see my dilemma.

Which amplifier will be a better choice (both in terms of drive & quality) for Audience 52, the new NAD 355 or Arcam FMJ A18?
I have heard the new NAD325BEE and surprisingly good integrated. I was not a big fan of the old NADs due to their overly dull signature. However the new series has opened up the dynamics and soundstage quite admirably. I listened to the 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky performed by the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra on a pair of Onix Rocket RS850s. They sounded phenomenol.

How Marantz PM 7200 amplifier performs with Audience 52?
How a QUAD 909 power amplifier performs with Audience 52?
I request all forum member friends to post their views & experiences in this regard.

Regards,
Partho.


The Marantz seems to be a decent integrated and would drive the 52s. I say try it out though I prefer more juice from my amp esp. when listening to fast tracked songs or high pitched ones (like Lata's voice).
 

particleman

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Have you ever tried A28 with Dyna 52? I am also not an expert in audio. I have heard that Dyna 52 is a difficult speaker to drive and also a difficult speaker to match with amplifiers to perform at its best. What is your experience?

I regret I have not heard this combination. But this was on purpose as I do not like the sound of Dynaudio speakers very much. I understand that they are excellent speakers with a very neutral response but I feared that analytical speakers paired with an equally laid back amp would make for a soporific combination. But I might be wrong and there may be people who have heard such a combo and are better placed to comment.

As marsilians has rightly pointed out, the Arcam has plenty of power and is conservatively rated. It seems like it would be able to drive a fairly difficult load. But as I have said, you may be happier with A38 if you listen to movies or Western Classical which has great dynamic range.

I have been told by the gentleman who sold me this amp that a few people are quite happy to use the A18 as a preamp as it excels even as such. Perhaps you could consider this route as well?
 

partho

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Hello Thevortex & Particleman,
Thank you to both of you for your reply. Thevortex said Musichall a25.2 can drive Dyna 52 efficiently. Yes it was a pleasant surprise for me also. In fact I liked the sound of Musichall a 25.2 very much. It was a little bit bright along with Dyna 52 & AE evo3 but still it has good resoulation & soungstage. The built quality is very good & boasts of a huge toroidal transformer. I think at this price range it is the only amplifier which accepts speaker with 2 ohm nominal impedence. The only thing I disliked about the amplifier is its brightness in sound reproduction.
Regarding Marantz AV receiver SR4001/SR4600, I think it can drive Dyna 52 to a reasonable volume but due to its limitation in ultra high current delivery the performance of Dyna 52 will not be at its best. I can tell you my own experience in this regard. The day when I listen to Dyna 52 with NAD 372, I was extremely impressed. After a few days I approached to Raghunath of Decibel again for another listening session with the same combo. As NAD 372 was sold I had to listen to the speaker with NAD 754 receiver. But this time I was totally unimpressed. It was like a totally different set of speakers. May be I did not allow the amplifier to warm up properly or may be it was not a perfect match.
Anyone of you have any experience about Mumbo amplifier which is the big brother of MusicHall A25.2.
Please keep on posting.
Regards,
Partho.
 
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