Help Reqd : Philips LCD TV and HTPC - 1:1 Mapping

[cmsajith]

Note : Reopening an old thread

I am trying to find the feasibility of choosing HTPC with ATI HD5550 card / WD Live (or similar media player) as my primary AV source. For HTPC, I am partially successful in doing it. The main problem I am facing is the blurred text in the desktop. Following are the specs of the TV:

Model : Philips 47PF9541/98
====================

Panel : Full HD W-UXGA Act. matrix

Panel resolution: 1920x1080p (but the controller accepts only upto 1080i).
Theory is that, except the image from a PC (@60Hz), this will work same way as a full HD TV as it supports 1080i @30Hz and since the movies are in 24fps / 30fps, it will be displayed same as a FHD TV w/o any manipulation.

Supported Display Resolution
Computer formats (RGBHV)
640 x 480 @ 60Hz
800 x 600 @ 60Hz
1024 x 768 @ 60Hz

Video Formats (HDMI / Component)
640 x 480i @ 1Fh
640 x 480p @ 2Fh
720 x 576i @ 1Fh
720 x 576p @ 2Fh
1280 x 720p @ 3Fh
1920 x 1080i @ 2Fh

HTPC
====
Integrated Graphics : Gigabyte 780G motherboard w ATI HD3200 and HDMI out
Adjusted the overscan / underscan to 0 in ATI Catalyst

Following are my doubts:

- At 1920x1080i @ 30Hz/50Hz/60Hz, the text is blurred. Does this resuts in blurred picture with HD content / Movies also?
- At 1024x768 @ 60Hz the text is almost clear but not sharp as the normal PC screen. Can we have this resolution for desktop and automatically change the resolution to 1080i @ 30Hz when a movie is selected (Assuming I am using XBMC or something similar.)?
- With WD Live, its able to display the text correctly / sharp. Is it possible to find the resolution and the refresh rate the WD Live selects (TV shows the i/p resolution as 1080i)?

Also please help in mapping my HTPC and LCD to 1:1.

 

[kapvin]

Note : Reopening an old thread

I am trying to find the feasibility of choosing HTPC with ATI HD5550 card / WD Live (or similar media player) as my primary AV source. For HTPC, I am partially successful in doing it. The main problem I am facing is the blurred text in the desktop. Following are the specs of the TV:

Model : Philips 47PF9541/98
====================

Panel : Full HD W-UXGA Act. matrix

Panel resolution: 1920x1080p (but the controller accepts only upto 1080i).
Theory is that, except the image from a PC (@60Hz), this will work same way as a full HD TV as it supports 1080i @30Hz and since the movies are in 24fps / 30fps, it will be displayed same as a FHD TV w/o any manipulation.

Supported Display Resolution
Computer formats (RGBHV)
640 x 480 @ 60Hz
800 x 600 @ 60Hz
1024 x 768 @ 60Hz

Video Formats (HDMI / Component)
640 x 480i @ 1Fh
640 x 480p @ 2Fh
720 x 576i @ 1Fh
720 x 576p @ 2Fh
1280 x 720p @ 3Fh
1920 x 1080i @ 2Fh

HTPC
====
Integrated Graphics : Gigabyte 780G motherboard w ATI HD3200 and HDMI out
Adjusted the overscan / underscan to 0 in ATI Catalyst

Following are my doubts:

- At 1920x1080i @ 30Hz/50Hz/60Hz, the text is blurred. Does this resuts in blurred picture with HD content / Movies also?
- At 1024x768 @ 60Hz the text is almost clear but not sharp as the normal PC screen. Can we have this resolution for desktop and automatically change the resolution to 1080i @ 30Hz when a movie is selected (Assuming I am using XBMC or something similar.)?
- With WD Live, its able to display the text correctly / sharp. Is it possible to find the resolution and the refresh rate the WD Live selects (TV shows the i/p resolution as 1080i)?

Also please help in mapping my HTPC and LCD to 1:1.

what connection are you using? analog, dvi or hdmi?

 

[cmsajith]

I am using HDMI (1.5m, since i had heard issues due to weak signals for reading EDID data)

 

[cmsajith]

Any help? .

 

[kapvin]

use moninfo to get an edid dump. post it here!

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

cheers

Kapil

 

[spirovious]

Hi,I have 5609 & till date no problem with 3mtr HDMI(with DVI converter).
My manual says this set cant accept 1080p from PC-HDMI.For BDP it can.Still from day 1 without issue,I can connect 1080p.
Now why do you set it as 1080i?

 

[cmsajith]

My manual says this set cant accept 1080p from PC-HDMI.

That means the controller cannot support 1080p @ 60Hz, probably its connected at 30Hz. Can you check?

Now why do you set it as 1080i?

The controller supports only upto 1080i which is theoretically same as 1080p @ 25/30Hz.

 

[cmsajith]

use moninfo to get an edid dump. post it here!

EnTech Taiwan | Utilities | Monitor Asset Manager

cheers

Kapil

sure, i will post it in the evening.

 

[spirovious]

That means the controller cannot support 1080p @ 60Hz, probably its connected at 30Hz. Can you check?


The controller supports only upto 1080i which is theoretically same as 1080p @ 25/30Hz.

No my win7 & nvidia CP both shows 1080p/ 60hz.
This problem is present in upper series of Philips & one member(digital..?)had similar problem earlier.He created a thread too.
got it-
http://www.hifivision.com/home-thea...play-problems-intel-h55-based-htpc-build.html
http://www.hifivision.com/home-thea...ay-problems-intel-h55-based-htpc-build-4.html

 

[sam9s]

Panel resolution: 1920x1080p (but the controller accepts only upto 1080i).

- At 1920x1080i @ 30Hz/50Hz/60Hz, the text is blurred. Does this resuts in blurred picture with HD content / Movies also?
- At 1024x768 @ 60Hz the text is almost clear but not sharp as the normal PC screen. Can we have this resolution for desktop and automatically change the resolution to 1080i @ 30Hz when a movie is selected (Assuming I am using XBMC or something similar.)?
- With WD Live, its able to display the text correctly / sharp. Is it possible to find the resolution and the refresh rate the WD Live selects (TV shows the i/p resolution as 1080i)?

Also please help in mapping my HTPC and LCD to 1:1.

1080i@xxHz should not blur the test, and definitely not the movies, I have connected my laptop 1366x786 and desktop 1080p @xxHz and though I have faced out of border picture but never blur text .... this might be an issue with the LCD itself as suggested by the other thread as well .....

However I am sure this would not be an issue with WD Live, as movies is an all together ball game then deskop PC on LCD. If movie watching is the prime objective, I'd say stick to WD Live as that is a far less hassle and far convenient scenario for playing movies than through a PC .......

 

[cmsajith]

In WD Live, even the text looks sharp with out any issues. I am looking for a PC solution only because of the HD audio passthrough and a better music playback.

 

[kapvin]

sajith,

you've done everything but post the one thing that can help someone help you. the moninfo dump of the edid.

if you feel reluctant to use moninfo, simply a try 1080p60 signal. i feel very strongly that your tv is 1080p compatible.. and the specs are incomplete.

it's unlikely that a tv in 2009 is released with a full-hd panel and but hd ready electronics..

regards

Kapvin

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/47pf9541_98/47pf9541_98_pss_aen.pdf

 

[cmsajith]

Sorry Kapvin, I am still at office. I will definitely post it once i reach home. If possible, i will try to post a pic.

I bought the TV in 2007 and I think this is one of their best models at that time (compared to others also) and belongs to 9 series. I had tried sending a 1080p @ 60Hz before and it didnt accept (screen went blank), however it accepts 1080p @ 30Hz (which is same as 1080i), but with the blurred text and icons.

 

[kapvin]

so am I. post the dump whenever you can. cheers.

 

[cmsajith]

Monitor
Model name............... Philips FTV
Manufacturer............. Philips
Plug and Play ID......... PHL0001
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2006, ISO week 1
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 640 x 360 mm (28.9 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.330
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.290 - Gy 0.600
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.150 - By 0.060
White point (default).... Wx 0.289 - Wy 0.299
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-50kHz
Vertical scan range...... 48-62Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 90MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1024x768p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "1024x768" 65.000 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 0
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 720x576p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x576" 27.000 720 732 796 864 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 483 489 525 -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 480i at 60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (16:9, 64:45)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 16:15)
720 x 576i at 50Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 64:45)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96 kHz
AC-3 6-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
MPEG1 2-channel, 1072k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 2.0
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ No
Front center............. No
Rear left/right.......... No
Rear center.............. No
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... No
Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 2.0.0.0
Maximum TMDS clock....... 165MHz

Report information
Date generated........... 10/23/2010
Software revision........ 2.52.0.857
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0021
Operating system......... 5.1.2600.2.Service Pack 3

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,41,0C,01,00,01,01,01,01,01,10,01,03,80,40,24,78,0A,E6,92,A3,54,4A,99,26,
0F,4A,4C,21,08,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,1D,80,D0,72,1C,16,20,10,2C,
25,80,80,68,21,00,00,9E,64,19,00,40,41,00,26,30,18,88,36,00,90,2C,11,00,00,18,00,00,00,FC,00,50,
68,69,6C,69,70,73,20,46,54,56,0A,20,00,00,00,FD,00,30,3E,0F,32,09,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,01,8B,
02,03,24,F0,4B,01,03,04,05,06,07,12,13,14,15,16,29,09,1F,07,15,07,50,19,07,86,83,01,00,00,65,03,
0C,00,20,00,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00,80,68,21,00,00,9E,01,1D,00,BC,52,D0,1E,20,B8,28,
55,40,80,68,21,00,00,1E,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,00,80,68,21,00,00,1E,8C,0A,D0,90,20,40,
31,20,0C,40,55,00,80,68,21,00,00,18,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E,36,00,80,68,21,00,00,18,00,C1

 

[kapvin]

Monitor
Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 15-50kHz
Vertical scan range...... 48-62Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 90MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1024x768p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "1024x768" 65.000 1024 1048 1184 1344 768 771 777 806 -hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA

part of the answer is there.. try 1080i50 (do not try p25). this will keep your mapping 1:1 and the tv deinterlacer will convert the picture to progressive.

spiro - that's why I asked for the mon info dump - which tell you that it's actually a pretty old tv and not comparable with stuff purchased 2008 onwards.


keep the refresh rate at 50hz only. if this fails, try another hdmi cable. (or try the hdmi cable on another monitor). ensure your colourspace is set to non-rgb - i've never used ati, so I cannot tell you how to do that, but should in the extended / enhanced part of the config. (also set levels to 16-235 not 0-255)

use moninfo to create a monitor driver - file-> create inf.

load this monitor driver (i guess you know how to do that)


all the best

 

[cmsajith]

part of the answer is there.. try 1080i50 (do not try p25). this will keep your mapping 1:1 and the tv deinterlacer will convert the picture to progressive.

spiro - that's why I asked for the mon info dump - which tell you that it's actually a pretty old tv and not comparable with stuff purchased 2008 onwards.


keep the refresh rate at 50hz only. if this fails, try another hdmi cable. (or try the hdmi cable on another monitor). ensure your colourspace is set to non-rgb - i've never used ati, so I cannot tell you how to do that, but should in the extended / enhanced part of the config. (also set levels to 16-235 not 0-255)

use moninfo to create a monitor driver - file-> create inf.

load this monitor driver (i guess you know how to do that)


all the best

I had tried 50Hz before as the spec sheet shows 1920 x 1080 @ 2Fh (ie, 50Hz) in the video section. But whenever I select / Force 50Hz the display size listbox value automatically changes to lower resolution in ATI catalyst. Also on selecting 1920x1080, only upto 30Hz is being listed as the option to choose.

Can we do it with powerstrip?

 

[kapvin]

you should leave powerstrop for the last. right now create the inf file. along try rolling back to an older version of catalyst.

 

[cmsajith]

you should leave powerstrop for the last. right now create the inf file. along try rolling back to an older version of catalyst.

created the .inf file and installed this as the monitor driver, but no difference..

 

[kapvin]

created the .inf file and installed this as the monitor driver, but no difference..

did you change the colourspace?

also may be worthwhile checking with

1. another cable
2. another gC.
3. older version of the driver

kapvin