Help with SVS SB1000 in 20x10 living room.

[sl4y3r]

Hi All,

I moved to a new place 3 weeks ago, my old place had a smaller room but placement and construction was a nightmare. I came to the new place thinking my issues would be solved, but seems like i have new issues. Room size 20x10, my sub volume dial is at about 1-2pm (~65-70%) (Sub level on the AVR is set to 0db).

My main problem is, I miss the 'thump' in music. I feel my old DefTech Prosub800 gave a much better music experience. I know SVS subs are generally considered as movie oriented, does this mean the music thump is non-existent?

Judging by the price is it safe to say the SB1000 (non-Pro) is better that the Q Acoustics QB12? I ask because I recently visited FM @amrutmhatre90's house who had a BIC (cant recall the model) that sounded great for the EDM track he played and he said the QB12 sounded even better (for music). So if the SVS>QB12>BIC, why doesn't my sub sound as good or better? (same track)

Crossover is set to 100 and speakers are set to small. (gear is in my signature). Should I increase it? (@ankitbhargava - replying to your question here as that thread might not be the best place for this long story of mine)

All this said, the movie experience is great! The Dolby Atmos - 'Amaze' trailer, where it says "Powerful Bass" shakes the room to another level!

Lastly, If I listen to Hotel California 5.1 FLAC the bass is up to my liking, but typically, all 2.0 FLACs that i play via JRiver (WASPI output) seem to have a rather dull bass and this is driving me crazy. Is it the room? The sub? The AVR settings? The source? My output is via a GTX1080Ti and another is via an Intel NUC 7.

I tried the subwoofer crawl last night, could not get anything conclusive, the place where it was originally placed seems to be the best.

I do not have the original mic for MCACC, i tried running MCACC using an Auydessy mic but results seemed off and I have read the mic pic-up levels matter, so you can't really swap mics, so this option is not viable too.

I have tried to play around with the phase with no much success.

Below is the layout of the room. I have sofa coming in, the windows have full length curtains. A thin/light carpet 4x7 is placed in front of the main listening area.

I already have another issue with my FS that i am still trying to solve, mentioned in this thread, see the last few posts.

Thanks for your time and looking forward to your help.

 

[ankitbhargava]

Hi All,

I moved to a new place 3 weeks ago, my old place had a smaller room but placement and construction was a nightmare. I came to the new place thinking my issues would be solved, but seems like i have new issues. Room size 20x10, my sub volume dial is at about 1-2pm (~65-70%) (Sub level on the AVR is set to 0db).

My main problem is, I miss the 'thump' in music. I feel my old DefTech Prosub800 gave a much better music experience. I know SVS subs are generally considered as movie oriented, does this mean the music thump is non-existent?

Judging by the price is it safe to say the SB1000 (non-Pro) is better that the Q Acoustics QB12? I ask because I recently visited FM @amrutmhatre90's house who had a BIC (cant recall the model) that sounded great for the EDM track he played and he said the QB12 sounded even better (for music). So if the SVS>QB12>BIC, why doesn't my sub sound as good or better? (same track)

Crossover is set to 100 and speakers are set to small. (gear is in my signature). Should I increase it? (@ankitbhargava - replying to your question here as that thread might not be the best place for this long story of mine)

All this said, the movie experience is great! The Dolby Atmos - 'Amaze' trailer, where it says "Powerful Bass" shakes the room to another level!

Lastly, If I listen to Hotel California 5.1 FLAC the bass is up to my liking, but typically, all 2.0 FLACs that i play via JRiver (WASPI output) seem to have a rather dull bass and this is driving me crazy. Is it the room? The sub? The AVR settings? The source? My output is via a GTX1080Ti and another is via an Intel NUC 7.

I tried the subwoofer crawl last night, could not get anything conclusive, the place where it was originally placed seems to be the best.

I do not have the original mic for MCACC, i tried running MCACC using an Auydessy mic but results seemed off and I have read the mic pic-up levels matter, so you can't really swap mics, so this option is not viable too.

I have tried to play around with the phase with no much success.

Below is the layout of the room. I have sofa coming in, the windows have full length curtains. A thin/light carpet 4x7 is placed in front of the main listening area.

I already have another issue with my FS that i am still trying to solve, mentioned in this thread, see the last few posts.

Thanks for your time and looking forward to your help.

Thanks for the additional information,
you said that thump was not missing in the old House/Room?

 

[sl4y3r]

Thanks for the additional information,
you said that thump was not missing in the old House/Room?

No, thump was missing there too, I feel it's missing even more in the new place. In the old apartment the walls had tiles so I blamed those for the lackluster bass/thump.

The Room shaking bass that I feel in the 'Amaze' demo video in the new place wasn't there in the old place. So it's all very confusing. Don't know what to make of all of this. The
Old place had a bed, bigger TV unit, wardrobe, a wfh table, a centre table and a wooden poofy. The new place has the same wfh table, 2 small wooden center tables and a slim tv unit. Could this be a reason?

 

[prateekatasniya]

Hi All,

I moved to a new place 3 weeks ago, my old place had a smaller room but placement and construction was a nightmare. I came to the new place thinking my issues would be solved, but seems like i have new issues. Room size 20x10, my sub volume dial is at about 1-2pm (~65-70%) (Sub level on the AVR is set to 0db).

My main problem is, I miss the 'thump' in music. I feel my old DefTech Prosub800 gave a much better music experience. I know SVS subs are generally considered as movie oriented, does this mean the music thump is non-existent?

Judging by the price is it safe to say the SB1000 (non-Pro) is better that the Q Acoustics QB12? I ask because I recently visited FM @amrutmhatre90's house who had a BIC (cant recall the model) that sounded great for the EDM track he played and he said the QB12 sounded even better (for music). So if the SVS>QB12>BIC, why doesn't my sub sound as good or better? (same track)

Crossover is set to 100 and speakers are set to small. (gear is in my signature). Should I increase it? (@ankitbhargava - replying to your question here as that thread might not be the best place for this long story of mine)

All this said, the movie experience is great! The Dolby Atmos - 'Amaze' trailer, where it says "Powerful Bass" shakes the room to another level!

Lastly, If I listen to Hotel California 5.1 FLAC the bass is up to my liking, but typically, all 2.0 FLACs that i play via JRiver (WASPI output) seem to have a rather dull bass and this is driving me crazy. Is it the room? The sub? The AVR settings? The source? My output is via a GTX1080Ti and another is via an Intel NUC 7.

I tried the subwoofer crawl last night, could not get anything conclusive, the place where it was originally placed seems to be the best.

I do not have the original mic for MCACC, i tried running MCACC using an Auydessy mic but results seemed off and I have read the mic pic-up levels matter, so you can't really swap mics, so this option is not viable too.

I have tried to play around with the phase with no much success.

Below is the layout of the room. I have sofa coming in, the windows have full length curtains. A thin/light carpet 4x7 is placed in front of the main listening area.

I already have another issue with my FS that i am still trying to solve, mentioned in this thread, see the last few posts.

Thanks for your time and looking forward to your help.

 

[MaSh]

Hi All,

I moved to a new place 3 weeks ago, my old place had a smaller room but placement and construction was a nightmare. I came to the new place thinking my issues would be solved, but seems like i have new issues. Room size 20x10, my sub volume dial is at about 1-2pm (~65-70%) (Sub level on the AVR is set to 0db).

Is this setting for SVS PB? 1 pm on dial and 0db on the receiver? If so, well that is where the issue is. That is way too high for an SVS. Unfortunately, I do not have experience with any other brand of this level. In my 16x24 room, with a Marantz receiver, I ran -ve11 DB on the receiver and about 2 pm on the sub. This used to rock the room. My usual movie-watching volume used to average around -ve15 DB.

Do check why the receiver is having to run your sub so hot. Try to factory reset your receiver and do a complete auto setup followed by a few common manual tweaks.

MaSh

 

[sl4y3r]

Hey did you reply here, I just see you have quoted my original post but don't see any reply from you.

Is this setting for SVS PB? 1 pm on dial and 0db on the receiver? If so, well that is where the issue is. That is way too high for an SVS. Unfortunately, I do not have experience with any other brand of this level. In my 16x24 room, with a Marantz receiver, I ran -ve11 DB on the receiver and about 2 pm on the sub. This used to rock the room. My usual movie-watching volume used to average around -ve15 DB.

Do check why the receiver is having to run your sub so hot. Try to factory reset your receiver and do a complete auto setup followed by a few common manual tweaks.

MaSh

Thanks for your reply. I have the SB1000 not PB. I even tried this in my old place, putting the AVR low and pushing the sub to like 2pm. I saw this in a YT recommendation, I guess I will give it a shot at my new place.

And yes, I was also contemplating doing a reset of the AVR

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

A quick glance and a guess - response at LP is boosted below 40Hz and subdued (maybe dips) in the 50-100Hz range.

 

[sl4y3r]

A quick glance and a guess - response at LP is boosted below 40Hz and subdued (maybe dips) in the 50-100Hz range.

Thanks. How do I fix this?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

You have JRiver right?

Go to DSP Studio>Parametric Equalizer>

Add low shelf filter - Frequency 50Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain -(minus)6db,Channels Left,Right
Add high shelf filter - Frequency 50Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain (plus)3db,Channels Left,Right
Add high shelf filter - Frequency 300Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain -(minus)3db,Channels Left,Right

Its not perfect but give it a go and let me know what you think.

Please start at lower volume than normal and slowly turn up the volume.

If I understood you correctly you have a 2.0 output from Jriver/PC? Not a seperate sub channel output?

 

[sl4y3r]

You have JRiver right?

Go to DSP Studio>Parametric Equalizer>

Add low shelf filter - Frequency 50Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain -(minus)6db,Channels Left,Right
Add high shelf filter - Frequency 50Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain (plus)3db,Channels Left,Right
Add high shelf filter - Frequency 300Hz, Bandwidth 1, Gain -(minus)3db,Channels Left,Right

Its not perfect but give it a go and let me know what you think.

Please start at lower volume than normal and slowly turn up the volume.

If I understood you correctly you have a 2.0 output from Jriver/PC? Not a seperate sub channel output?

I tried to play around with JR.. didn't spend enough time. Thanks, will try out your settings and report back.

But yes, as of now, its 2.0 output to the AVR. I too feel some crap is happening here, because when I have a dedicated signal (via the source/content) going to the sub, i generally like the bass. Somehow the amp isn't doing some crossover/frequency allocation correctly when its 2.0

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I am not very clear on the chain but your post seems to imply doing better on movies which have more "room shaking" bass in the 25-50Hz band, also you report good bass on the 5.1 FLAC of hotel california which apart from having a .1 channel also doesn't have (as I recall) very powerful bass or intensity in the 50-100Hz range like EDM music.

If indeed JRiver is your player and JRiver is set to output 2.0 then it should do so for all content, if I am not mistaken.

 

[sl4y3r]

I am not very clear on the chain but your post seems to imply doing better on movies which have more "room shaking" bass in the 25-50Hz band, also you report good bass on the 5.1 FLAC of hotel california which apart from having a .1 channel also doesn't have (as I recall) very powerful bass or intensity in the 50-100Hz range like EDM music.

If indeed JRiver is your player and JRiver is set to output 2.0 then it should do so for all content, if I am not mistaken.

No, I have set JR to output as source number of channels. So the bass in Hotel California is being sent directly to the sub unlikel regular 2.0 music which is going to the AVR as 2.0 and the bass is then being split by the AVR and then going to the sub. I think my pioneer isn't handling the latter very well.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

What is your PC sound card/audio output device? Does it facilitate 5.1 output?

Are you sure the sub is being given a signal with 2.0 content? Does it produce any sound? Try playing it with the speakers off to see if there is sound and the level of output.

Alternatively you could go to DSP Studio>Output Format and see if the Subwoofer option helps, below Channels. You could try JRSS Subwoofer with a 120Hz Low Pass to start.

Ideally you could try my previous suggestion and the Subwoofer suggestion separately, and then together. Please do again remember to start at lower than normal volumes and move up.

If the routing is at fault, it could be that either the sub is not being given a signal by the AVR for 2.0 or perhaps the level is too low compared to a dedicated LFE channel input.

 

[sl4y3r]

What is your PC sound card/audio output device? Does it facilitate 5.1 output?

Are you sure the sub is being given a signal with 2.0 content? Does it produce any sound? Try playing it with the speakers off to see if there is sound and the level of output.

Alternatively you could go to DSP Studio>Output Format and see if the Subwoofer option helps, below Channels. You could try JRSS Subwoofer with a 120Hz Low Pass to start.

Ideally you could try my previous suggestion and the Subwoofer suggestion separately, and then together. Please do again remember to start at lower than normal volumes and move up.

If the routing is at fault, it could be that either the sub is not being given a signal by the AVR for 2.0 or perhaps the level is too low compared to a dedicated LFE channel input.

The sub is definitely getting an input, my guess is that it's just not enough or the right frequency. The soundcard is a the HDMI on the GTX 1080Ti gfx card. I believe it's Realtek. But since its WASAPI, it's sending the raw signal to the AVR for processing, similar/same as bitstreaming which is what I do for my movie audio, pushing the audio straight to the AVR for decoding. I'm now wondering of a factory reset will solve this issue as MaSH mentioned?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

If the sub is getting an input then it is likely too low. The frequency part is not related to the chain/routing but how the sub is behaving in your room.

The low shelf/high shelf filters will help with subs response in room.

The Subwoofer option I mentioned later will help with level if it is low.

I am not familiar enough with the sound output on GPUs to comment on that. Not sure how it is handled and what signal is being sent.

You could try a reset, what's the harm? But I doubt it will fix it.

If indeed the sub is getting a signal then the only other explanations I can think of for why it is underwhelming for music is as stated above, either signal too low or subs room response.

What about the speaker output? Is the level the same between 5.1 output and 2.0 output?

 

[sandeepmohan]

Before I start, I want to say that the sub you have is superb. Unless there is something technically wrong with it, it should not take much effort to get it going.

Is your sub woofer placed on a pedestal or directly on the floor? If the former, get rid of that pedestal to start with. We can always put it back after we isolate the problem.

From the diagram you've shared, the placement of the sub woofer is not ideal. You should bring it up front or get it parallel to the right speaker, to the left of the right speaker. Alternatively right behind it, to the right of the speaker and beside the words TV. Think of how the bishop would move in a game of chess, from the position of the right speaker and to the right side of it. It will run against the right wall. Don't keep it flush to the wall.

The lack of the MCACC mic is going to be a problem so you want to try and source one. If you can't get one, take a tape measure and measure distance to the listening position and enter those values in MCACC for every individual speaker. I've done this and got better results versus what Audyssey did to my rig. It will take two people to do this but its a one time effort.

Setting the cross over point on the receiver is up to your personal preference. If you want all bass duties to be handled by the sub, you want your cross over to be 80Hz or a higher value. Since you like a so called "thump" thats all for the sub woofer to do, which means you want your cross over point at 60Hz or 80Hz.

Leave the cross over dial on the sub at max or 5pm mark. The gain can stay at 2pm. Actually, you may need to dial down some gain if bass is too much but we will leave for later and once you are satisfied with the sound.

With regard to your flac, what was the source of that flac? If you ripped or downloaded it from a legit source, then all good and we can continue to use that. If you do not know the source, I highly recommend paying and downloading something from HD Tracks or used Qobuz, Tidal, etc. You want to be sure that the track you are playing is good. Play the track directly off the receiver. This way, you know for sure the playback source isn't the culprit, is not diluting the sound along the way.

Turn off any power saving feature or auto turn off/standy by feature on the sub, av receiver.

You sub pre out level is unusually high on the avr. To give you context, I get bass extension and sub bass with the pre out level at -6db! These values can vary from receiver to receiver. I have a lower quality sub to the one you use. My gain level on the sub is the same as yours.

Another thing to note about sealed sub woofers, they are not exactly designed for outright, extremely deep bass. They are best for bass extension and for something you want to play tight. For deep, far extended bass notes, a ported one is better. This is not to push you to buy another sub. You need to understand why they both exist.

To end, if you are in a position to swap the sound rig over to the other side, where the window is (I assume thats half height), give it a shot and see what results you get. The current placement and position of all the speakers (not just the sub) are a bit off. The walls (or lack of a wall) can change the way each speaker responds to the room.

 

[sl4y3r]

Hi all, a quick update for something i could try on a work day ( thank God for WFH )

I tried what @MaSh mentioned again at my new place and here it seemed to make a big difference. Sub level on the AVR -7.5db and sub volume dial at 2pm. Results were good! Is this a safe setting considering I'm playing music with the volume on the amp at -25db maxx. Avg at -28 to -30. Movies at max -15db and avg -18 to -23db

Also, regarding what @sandeepmohan mentioned, "Setting the cross over point on the receiver is up to your personal preference. If you want all bass duties to be handled by the sub, you want your cross over to be 80Hz or a higher value. Since you like a so called "thump" thats all for the sub woofer to do, which means you want your cross over point at 60Hz or 80Hz." Won't setting it below 80 give the sub less work and cause me to lose some of that thump?

Right now, its at 100Hz

 

[efernand1]

Hi all, a quick update for something i could try on a work day ( thank God for WFH )

I tried what @MaSh mentioned again at my new place and here it seemed to make a big difference. Sub level on the AVR -7.5db and sub volume dial at 2pm. Results were good! Is this a safe setting considering I'm playing music with the volume on the amp at -25db maxx. Avg at -28 to -30. Movies at max -15db and avg -18 to -23db

Also, regarding what @sandeepmohan mentioned, "Setting the cross over point on the receiver is up to your personal preference. If you want all bass duties to be handled by the sub, you want your cross over to be 80Hz or a higher value. Since you like a so called "thump" thats all for the sub woofer to do, which means you want your cross over point at 60Hz or 80Hz." Won't setting it below 80 give the sub less work and cause me to lose some of that thump?

Right now, its at 100Hz

I use a SVS SB1000 and I kept the crossover at 110hz. Bass Management is Front + Sub. Front Speakers are kept at 90hz.

IMHO, Pioneer AVRs cater more towards movies, a Marantz or Yamaha (Aventage series) would have provided a more better performance. If you know audio dealers, see if you can borrow the calibration mic to run setup again. My volume on subwoofer is 45%- 50% and it is 0db on AVR.

 

[MaSh]

Hi all, a quick update for something i could try on a work day ( thank God for WFH )

I tried what @MaSh mentioned again at my new place and here it seemed to make a big difference. Sub level on the AVR -7.5db and sub volume dial at 2pm. Results were good! Is this a safe setting considering I'm playing music with the volume on the amp at -25db maxx. Avg at -28 to -30. Movies at max -15db and avg -18 to -23db

Also, regarding what @sandeepmohan mentioned, "Setting the cross over point on the receiver is up to your personal preference. If you want all bass duties to be handled by the sub, you want your cross over to be 80Hz or a higher value. Since you like a so called "thump" thats all for the sub woofer to do, which means you want your cross over point at 60Hz or 80Hz." Won't setting it below 80 give the sub less work and cause me to lose some of that thump?

Right now, its at 100Hz

That's great news. Yes this setting is perfect. If you want to be a perfectionist, you can adjust the gain on receiver to go even lower to a max of -ve11 db(it's not easy and needs multiple runs and time). But it's not important. -ve7 is perfectly fine.

Crossover at 100 or 110hz for an svs is good as they love more meat to chew on. You can experiment with 80, 90, 100, 110 and even 120hz. All depends on the best Handover - Takeover point between the speakers and the Sub in Your room.

MaSh

 

[sl4y3r]

Thanks for the inputs and support @MaSh @Decadent_Spectre @sandeepmohan @efernand1. I will play around with it some more to see how best i can optimize. My sofa is taking longer than expected to come, will wait for that too to see how the sound changes. Thanks again.

@efernand1 - What's your room size btw?

Lastly, the shitty thing about this AVR is that it does not let you set crossover for individual speakers (not even fronts, height, etc.) its 1 universal crossover, to make things worse its not even in good increments, there's 60, 80, 100, 150, 200! No 10Hz increments like most receivers have. That's the biggest painpoint for this AVR.