How much power does an AVR / HT actually consume

[Amarendra]

Hi,

After receiving inflated power bills I set out measuring the amount of power which was being consumed by the usual culprits- TV, fridge, AC, PC, water heater and of course the home theater. I used a smart plug from sonoff which sends me information On my phone via WiFi. The results were as follows:

TV approx 50 - 75 watts depending on content. Since my tv is a 55 inch OLED consumption could be higher

Fridge: approx 140- 200 watts when compressor is on, almost nil otherwise

PC- single monitor 50 watts, dual monitor 75 watts. Heavy gaming on one monitor LG ultra wide: 200 w!!

AC- 3 star 1 tonne Daikin 800 watts with compressor on

and finally the HT....

AVR Denon 2500 H (2019) Wharfedale Diamond 220 center, L and R+ Diamond 210 surrounds and 2 ceiling speakers for Atmos. Connected sub- Emotiva 10 inch subwoofer and media player Nvidia Shield. Barring the projector, everything else was connected to the smart plug (including sub). I played the initial scene from inception when the dream starts going wrong and the action begins. I played the scene pretty loud (didnt measure but my daughter was covering her ears). Room size was13 feet x 10 feet with ceiling height of about 8 feet after false ceiling. Guess what the nvidia plus sub plus AVR powering 7 speakers held steady at 60 - 65 wattts and after really dialling the volume higher I could push the consumption to a maxxx 73 watts !

My question to audio experts- are we fooling ourselves by adding extra power amplifiers to AVRs assuming that AVRs don’t have head room ? I am sure an AVR is capable of much more. I had also initially connected 2 amplifiers to my AVR assuming that I was making headroom available. But now I guess the so called improvement in sound from the additional amplifiers was just the sound coloration which the new amps were adding to the chain !
Any views on the above would be welcome.

 

[ISO]

My question to audio experts- are we fooling ourselves by adding extra power amplifiers to AVRs assuming that AVRs don’t have head room ? I am sure an AVR is capable of much more.

1. Ext. amp is not connected for extra loud volume but for the sophistication. Two channel amplifier is heavy and bigger than 5. 7 or 11 channel AVR, so there must be some compromise.

2. Some 4 ohm speaker is difficult load for AVR. Ext. Power amp can better deal with that.

3. Some AVR need ext power amp for extra channel amplification esp. for Atmos.

 

[superczar]

Hi,

After receiving inflated power bills I set out measuring the amount of power which was being consumed by the usual culprits- TV, fridge, AC, PC, water heater and of course the home theater. I used a smart plug from sonoff which sends me information On my phone via WiFi. The results were as follows:

TV approx 50 - 75 watts depending on content. Since my tv is a 55 inch OLED consumption could be higher

Fridge: approx 140- 200 watts when compressor is on, almost nil otherwise

PC- single monitor 50 watts, dual monitor 75 watts. Heavy gaming on one monitor LG ultra wide: 200 w!!

AC- 3 star 1 tonne Daikin 800 watts with compressor on

and finally the HT....

AVR Denon 2500 H (2019) Wharfedale Diamond 220 center, L and R+ Diamond 210 surrounds and 2 ceiling speakers for Atmos. Connected sub- Emotiva 10 inch subwoofer and media player Nvidia Shield. Barring the projector, everything else was connected to the smart plug (including sub). I played the initial scene from inception when the dream starts going wrong and the action begins. I played the scene pretty loud (didnt measure but my daughter was covering her ears). Room size was13 feet x 10 feet with ceiling height of about 8 feet after false ceiling. Guess what the nvidia plus sub plus AVR powering 7 speakers held steady at 60 - 65 wattts and after really dialling the volume higher I could push the consumption to a maxxx 73 watts !

My question to audio experts- are we fooling ourselves by adding extra power amplifiers to AVRs assuming that AVRs don’t have head room ? I am sure an AVR is capable of much more. I had also initially connected 2 amplifiers to my AVR assuming that I was making headroom available. But now I guess the so called improvement in sound from the additional amplifiers was just the sound coloration which the new amps were adding to the chain !
Any views on the above would be welcome.

The truth is somewhere in between.
I actually log power usage so i can corroborate your observation that most but the most basic AVRs are not truly taxed on the power /headroom front at moderate to somewhat high volume levels .
The available headroom is even better during stereo playback as only 2 speakers are being driven.

However, good quality Integrated amps do offer certain advantages, the most important one IMO being the much higher channel separation which could be better by upto 20-25db
In a AVR , you will have much greater degree of cross-talk between channels , so let’s say if you were feeding an AVR only 1 channel and play it at 78db. If you hold your ears close to the non driven channel, you will hear a faint playback
That won’t be the case with an Inetgrated (esp those with dual monoblocks) as the separation will typically be 90db or higher.

Would that make a noticeable difference with both channels driven? I don’t know - I cannot tell but then there are several FMs who can differentiate

One thing I can say for sure though is that a lot of audio enthusiasts tend to get elitist and start recommending Integrated Amps to people who are just about getting started and are working on a defined budget.
The notion that gets perpetrated is that Integrated amps sound a LOT better than AVRs for music - which is surely not true

 

[spirovious]

To me, external Poweramp can drive speakers in much better way than avr.But some how,there would be some sonic difference with rest of the channels.Tried Rotel,Marantz power amps with Yamaha, Marantz AVR"s preout, but l preferred overall matched sound of avr in HT.Power amps did well with music thpugh.
Another thing l found that ultimately that AVR preout are not the best to get the headroom I was looking.That's why new Marantz avrs have peout option in setting.

 

[Amarendra]

The truth is somewhere in between.
I actually log power usage so i can corroborate your observation that most but the most basic AVRs are not truly taxed on the power /headroom front at moderate to somewhat high volume levels .
The available headroom is even better during stereo playback as only 2 speakers are being driven.

However, good quality Integrated amps do offer certain advantages, the most important one IMO being the much higher channel separation which could be better by upto 20-25db
In a AVR , you will have much greater degree of cross-talk between channels , so let’s say if you were feeding an AVR only 1 channel and play it at 78db. If you hold your ears close to the non driven channel, you will hear a faint playback
That won’t be the case with an Inetgrated (esp those with dual monoblocks) as the separation will typically be 90db or higher.

Would that make a noticeable difference with both channels driven? I don’t know - I cannot tell but then there are several FMs who can differentiate

One thing I can say for sure though is that a lot of audio enthusiasts tend to get elitist and start recommending Integrated Amps to people who are just about getting started and are working on a defined budget.
The notion that gets perpetrated is that Integrated amps sound a LOT better than AVRs for music - which is surely not true

What you are suggesting is that there could be qualitative differences between an AVR and a well built stereo amp. Hence to appreciate that difference it would be better to seperate music from movies rather than connecting a high end stereo amp to an AVR. However the case is not strong enough to warrant the purchase of a seperate stereo if one already has a decent AVR. Is that correct ?

 

[Amarendra]

To me, external Poweramp can drive speakers in much better way than avr.But some how,there would be some sonic difference with rest of the channels.Tried Rotel,Marantz power amps with Yamaha, Marantz AVR"s preout, but l preferred overall matched sound of avr in HT.Power amps did well with music thpugh.
Another thing l found that ultimately that AVR preout are not the best to get the headroom I was looking.That's why new Marantz avrs have peout option in setting.

True, I also tried Rotel and then a very cheap amp (INR 2500-3000) after which I couldn't notice the difference when either was connected to the AVR.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

True, I also tried Rotel and then a very cheap amp (INR 2500-3000) after which I couldn't notice the difference when either was connected to the AVR.

Totally depends on what speaker is connected to the avr. Most avrs are happy with 8 or 6 ohm speakers but amps like Marantz are very bad when it comes to driving High current required speakers. My avr is a older Marantz SR 8500 thX https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/marantz-sr8500-audio-video-receiver/

Despite the good power per channel rating of 125w Peer channel, even on just connecting the front speakers, the front speakers which are 4 ohms 86db sounds very uncontrolled. They sound loud but nothing is tight. Treble is sharp and annoying. In short it doesn’t match the amp at all. There is a arcam p80 between the avr and front speakers currently which are perfectly matched. Despite its much lower power rating of 60 or 70w, they drive the 4 ohm speakers with lot of authority than the huge 22 kg Marantz! So, in my case, the avr wasn’t enough. But at the same time, we have a spendor s3/5se bookshelf’s which sounds awful with the Arcam but decent with the Marantz. Same with elac debut rears, they sound quite good with Marantz but very uncontrolled with Arcam.

also at home there is a Yamaha rxv 800 which also has same results. Very bad with 4 ohms and good with 8 ohms. I won’t generalize it will always be bad with 4 ohms, as I have only one 4 ohms towers to try at home.

again a friend of mine has the same front speakers as mine and he has an Onkyo ab receiver which he sayshas better control over the speaker than his NAD stereo amp(c357)! So it’s a matter of synergy In the end.

 

[Amarendra]

Totally depends on what speaker is connected to the avr. Most avrs are happy with 8 or 6 ohm speakers but amps like Marantz are very bad when it comes to driving High current required speakers. My avr is a older Marantz SR 8500 thX https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/marantz-sr8500-audio-video-receiver/

Despite the good power per channel rating of 125w Peer channel, even on just connecting the front speakers, the front speakers which are 4 ohms 86db sounds very uncontrolled. They sound loud but nothing is tight. Treble is sharp and annoying. In short it doesn’t match the amp at all. There is a arcam p80 between the avr and front speakers currently which are perfectly matched. Despite its much lower power rating of 60 or 70w, they drive the 4 ohm speakers with lot of authority than the huge 22 kg Marantz! So, in my case, the avr wasn’t enough. But at the same time, we have a spendor s3/5se bookshelf’s which sounds awful with the Arcam but decent with the Marantz. Same with elac debut rears, they sound quite good with Marantz but very uncontrolled with Arcam.

also at home there is a Yamaha rxv 800 which also has same results. Very bad with 4 ohms and good with 8 ohms. I won’t generalize it will always be bad with 4 ohms, as I have only one 4 ohms towers to try at home.

again a friend of mine has the same front speakers as mine and he has an Onkyo ab receiver which he sayshas better control over the speaker than his NAD stereo amp(c357)! So it’s a matter of synergy In the end.

What you are referring to could be a matching problem or the AVR not designed to cater to 4 ohm speakers.

 

[superczar]

What you are suggesting is that there could be qualitative differences between an AVR and a well built stereo amp. Hence to appreciate that difference it would be better to seperate music from movies rather than connecting a high end stereo amp to an AVR. However the case is not strong enough to warrant the purchase of a seperate stereo if one already has a decent AVR. Is that correct ?

Mostly yes...
The only true way to judge a AVR vs a AVR+ IA is by doing a AB comparison AFTER level matching.

For example D&M AVRs (and possibly others too) are configured at 1.2V RMS o/p which would result in the IA yielding a slightly higher SPL for the same volume on the AVR.
The resulting difference would create a perception of punchier and detailed sound with the IA - which is not really true


I do not have 4 ohm speakers though so perhaps the experience with low sensitivity/ low impedance speakers could be different

In any case though, if I was starting anew, had a decent AVR and a budget of 100K
I would anyday plonk it on best of class speakers in the 100K range rather than spending it on 50K speakers and 50K amp

I would look at an IA only after hitting the point of diminishing returns on speakers

 

[Amarendra]

Mostly yes...
The only true way to judge a AVR vs a AVR+ IA is by doing a AB comparison AFTER level matching.

For example D&M AVRs (and possibly others too) are configured at 1.2V RMS o/p which would result in the IA yielding a slightly higher SPL for the same volume on the AVR.
The resulting difference would create a perception of punchier and detailed sound with the IA - which is not really true


I do not have 4 ohm speakers though so perhaps the experience with low sensitivity/ low impedance speakers could be different

True a lot of things are perception driven. One of our forum members had connected two expensive subs in his AVR since ppl keep saying that 2 subs are better than one. Then he realised one fine day that for an unknown period of time when he thought he was enjoying 2 subs, one had been accidentally switched off by his maid. He never really realised this fact and was quick to acknowledge that he couldn't tell the difference between one sub vs 2 subs and sold off one sub

 

[fLUX]

I was about to sell my Onkyo TX-SR444 and was just testing the Dynaudio Emit M20 to see how they paired. I was pleasantly surprised when I found that they drive the M20 with much more authority than both PM6006 and CA 651A. There is much more quantity and lows tend to go deeper than with the IA's , treble detail is almost as good as the IA's and mids are slightly more lushful on the PM6006.

The TX-SR444 are rated at just 65 watts at 8 ohm load(2ch driven) and at around 110 watts at 4 ohm (unofficial specs observed on some sites), dont know if its the high current circuit which Onkyo advertises to be the cause for the same but a sweet surprise.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

What you are referring to could be a matching problem or the AVR not designed to cater to 4 ohm speakers.

the problem is none of the devices are perfectly Designed. It sounds more like the damping factor is less when matching the avr to the 4 ohm speaker in my case. I guess, the problem could be more than just the impedances. But end of the day, I am not technically sound to know exactly what is wrong here. Since manufactures don’t publish every measurement and even if, they are mostly not right as they claim (look at asr reviews and see how fake the specs are on many hi go devices) the only way is just see if it works for you or sell it off. I know several brands which works with my speakers for unknown reasons irrespective of the specs the manufactures claim.

 

[RajithKumar]

I feel that it totally depends upon how loud you are hearing, the sensitivity of the speakers,the listening distance etc.,. In my experience addition of Power amp have made a good difference .
Also IMO, please note that childrens are very sensitive to sound than us..they can hear much more broader frequencies than us.( Especially higher range ).

 

[superczar]

the problem is none of the devices are perfectly Designed. It sounds more like the damping factor is less when matching the avr to the 4 ohm speaker in my case. I guess, the problem could be more than just the impedances. But end of the day, I am not technically sound to know exactly what is wrong here. Since manufactures don’t publish every measurement and even if, they are mostly not right as they claim (look at asr reviews and see how fake the specs are on many hi go devices) the only way is just see if it works for you or sell it off. I know several brands which works with my speakers for unknown reasons irrespective of the specs the manufactures claim.

Yeah, luckily for me all my main speakers are reasonably sensitive and 8 ohm.
Having said that, barring exceptions like an underpowered amp with a low sensitivity 4 ohm speaker, most well designed speakers and amps should pair well with each other.

There can be some variations primarily owing to the fact that neither your amp nor the speakers (especially) have a flat response..
So an amp that has an extra 1db gain at 7000hz (non flat response) paired with a speaker that has a 1.5db gain at the same frequency will result in a system that may sound too bright.
And since the listener would reduce volume to offset the shrillness, the low end will see a dip that will be perceived as weak/lifeless low end.

There are still many ways to fix it that do not involve outright change of amp and/or speakers but then those methods are also often perceived as robbers of original intent

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Yeah, luckily for me all my main speakers are reasonably sensitive and 8 ohm.
Having said that, barring exceptions like an underpowered amp with a low sensitivity 4 ohm speaker, most well designed speakers and amps should pair well with each other.

There can be some variations primarily owing to the fact that neither your amp nor the speakers (especially) have a flat response..
So an amp that has an extra 1db gain at 7000hz (non flat response) paired with a speaker that has a 1.5db gain at the same frequency will result in a system that may sound too bright.
And since the listener would reduce volume to offset the shrillness, the low end will see a dip that will be perceived as weak/lifeless low end

I don’t know if my amp or speakers measure I’m terms of frequency response.But what really bothers me wasn’t the tonality but the timing, it was way sluggish, like they decays were quite long. Poor damping factor like I previously said. So even with a flat response it can be totally off sounding.

 

[Amarendra]

I was about to sell my Onkyo TX-SR444 and was just testing the Dynaudio Emit M20 to see how they paired. I was pleasantly surprised when I found that they drive the M20 with much more authority than both PM6006 and CA 651A. There is much more quantity and lows tend to go deeper than with the IA's , treble detail is almost as good as the IA's and mids are slightly more lushful on the PM6006.

The TX-SR444 are rated at just 65 watts at 8 ohm load(2ch driven) and at around 110 watts at 4 ohm (unofficial specs observed on some sites), dont know if its the high current circuit which Onkyo advertises to be the cause for the same but a sweet surprise.

True I find the same with my Denon AVR as well as Pioneer AVR. I don’t find anything missing in music. Earlier that was not the case. I had a Marantz AVR which I found good for movies but crappy for music. When I connected the a Norge power amp to it things changed quite a bit and some of the anaemia of the Marantz was gone. The more recent AVRs are quite good. In fact if you want to know the true per channel power output you should go to the US website of the company and check the model ratings. There it is mandatory to publish per channel power with 2 channels driven. In India the same company advertises one channel driven watts and we get these obscene numbers like 150 watts per channel etc

 

[spirovious]

I don’t know if my amp or speakers measure I’m terms of frequency response.But what really bothers me wasn’t the tonality but the timing, it was way sluggish, like they decays were quite long. Poor damping factor like I previously said. So even with a flat response it can be totally off sounding.

There are few tricks to improve the timing-

1) Reduce speaker distances to some value and check.Soundstage may appear little smaller.

2) If first is not helpful,then try reducing only subwoofer distance.

3) Changing crossover settings also helps as SW has to match well with rest of speakers.In my case, Audyssesy crossovered fronts at 40hzs and Center 60hzs.I changed it to 80hzs all.Also changed fronts from large to small.

4) If surround speaker wires are of different make/company than fronts, then also timing issue can happen.So can be used same type of wires( guage can be different ).

If all above fails, then room can be the main issue and need some treatment.

 

[Prashob]

Hi,


AVR Denon 2500 H (2019) Wharfedale Diamond 220 center, L and R+ Diamond 210 surrounds and 2 ceiling speakers for Atmos. Connected sub- Emotiva 10 inch subwoofer and media player Nvidia Shield. Barring the projector, everything else was connected to the smart plug (including sub). I played the initial scene from inception when the dream starts going wrong and the action begins. I played the scene pretty loud (didnt measure but my daughter was covering her ears). Room size was13 feet x 10 feet with ceiling height of about 8 feet after false ceiling. Guess what the nvidia plus sub plus AVR powering 7 speakers held steady at 60 - 65 wattts and after really dialling the volume higher I could push the consumption to a maxxx 73 watts !

Only 73 watts!! Thats too low, can any one explain this?
Which smart plug are you using?

Here is one of our member talking about overloading his ups

How much power in watts does an average AV receiver consume ?

I just purchased an Emerson 1KVA online sine wave UPS I plan to run 1. Denon 510BT powering Wharfedale 5.1 100HCP satellite speakers (??????) 2. Xbox one - 120 watts while gaming 3. Benq 1070 projector - 200 watts 4. Tata Sky STB (not much) The UPS can drive 800 watts comfortably. Will it...

www.hifivision.com

 

[Amarendra]

Only 73 watts!! Thats too low, can any one explain this?
Which smart plug are you using?

Here is one of our member talking about overloading his ups

How much power in watts does an average AV receiver consume ?

I just purchased an Emerson 1KVA online sine wave UPS I plan to run 1. Denon 510BT powering Wharfedale 5.1 100HCP satellite speakers (??????) 2. Xbox one - 120 watts while gaming 3. Benq 1070 projector - 200 watts 4. Tata Sky STB (not much) The UPS can drive 800 watts comfortably. Will it...

www.hifivision.com

The readings are correct since the same plug was used to measure AC, refrigerator, PC , TV etc

 

[Prashob]

The readings are correct since the same plug was used to measure AC, refrigerator, PC , TV etc

Can you please give the link to that smart plug, i intent to buy one.