How to choose audio CDs based on mastering quality?

[sam9s]

Will there be an audible difference between the two (Rs. 199/- v.s Rs.399/-) ?
Other than the covering etc...
If every '1' is copied as a '1' and every '0' as a '0', i dont see any difference.

The bitrate and sampling rate matters a lot, a lower bit/sampling rate would result in poor disc, irrespective of, if every 1 and 0 is copied exactly...

Unfortunately these is no way you can judge that by just looking at the CD ..... unlike SACD where in it usually clearly mentioned on the cover itself, a normal CD authorization can not be judged by the cover, so people just follow the plan thumb rule ...... avoid 199, T-Series stuff and as much as possible and opt for 300+ EMI, UNIVERSAL, SONY stuff .......

 

[bunty312]

The bitrate and sampling rate matters a lot, a lower bit/sampling rate would result in poor disc, irrespective of, if every 1 and 0 is copied exactly...

Unfortunately these is no way you can judge that by just looking at the CD ..... unlike SACD where in it usually clearly mentioned on the cover itself, a normal CD authorization can not be judged by the cover, so people just follow the plan thumb rule ...... avoid 199, T-Series stuff and as much as possible and opt for 300+ EMI, UNIVERSAL, SONY stuff .......

Higher the bit rate and higher the sampling rate, more the detail and more the head room available. Accepted.
But the maximum sampling rate that audio CDs are compatible with is 44.1kHz.
This is enought (theoretically) to reproduce the highest audible frequency 20kHz, according to NyquistShannon sampling theorem.
But it is believed that sampling at 48kHz is better.
However, whatever the original recording's sampling rate was, it eventually goes onto the CD at 44100 samples per second.

Like I said, if EVERY '1' and EVERY '0' was copied as it was, there will not be any difference in the bit/sampling rate and there should not be any difference in audio quality accoring to me. And i am not talking about users ripping off CDs and making copies, i am talking about the companies that take the rights and come-up with a compilation of songs.

 

[sam9s]

Higher the bit rate and higher the sampling rate, more the detail and more the head room available. Accepted.
But the maximum sampling rate that audio CDs are compatible with is 44.1kHz.
This is enought (theoretically) to reproduce the highest audible frequency 20kHz, according to NyquistShannon sampling theorem.
But it is believed that sampling at 48kHz is better.
However, whatever the original recording's sampling rate was, it eventually goes onto the CD at 44100 samples per second.

Like I said, if EVERY '1' and EVERY '0' was copied as it was, there will not be any difference in the bit/sampling rate and there should not be any difference in audio quality accoring to me. And i am not talking about users ripping off CDs and making copies, i am talking about the companies that take the rights and come-up with a compilation of songs.

Max is 44K, though SACDs goes up to 96. but is there a minimum standard. And I am talking about the bitrate, not the sampling rate, you can still have a lower bitrate with the same 44K sampling rate. And I am also not talking about ripping, but the companies which can fiddle around with the bitrate before the CD is authorized, lowering the quality somewhat ..... Another parameter is bit depth, which is usually 16bits. Point is there are too many ways the audio can be sampled and authorized on a CD (despite of the fact the CD itself has a stranded norm) and that could in all probability be the reason of low quality audio from cheap CDss, irrespective of if 1 and 0s are copied exactly.

I would also like to bring a point that all these differences would not matter on a car stereo, iPODs, music phones and PMPs. The difference is only audible when you have a pretty decent high end audio setup with quality cables and connectors. For a usual/casual setup..... CDs (at what ever bit/sample rate) and MP3 (any bitrate above 128kbps) would sound more or less same ....

 

[bunty312]

Max is 44K, though SACDs goes up to 96. but is there a minimum standard. And I am talking about the bitrate, not the sampling rate, you can still have a lower bitrate with the same 44K sampling rate. And I am also not talking about ripping, but the companies which can fiddle around with the bitrate before the CD is authorized, lowering the quality somewhat ..... Another parameter is bit depth, which is usually 16bits. Point is there are too many ways the audio can be sampled and authorized on a CD (despite of the fact the CD itself has a stranded norm) and that could in all probability be the reason of low quality audio from cheap CDss, irrespective of if 1 and 0s are copied exactly.

I would also like to bring a point that all these differences would not matter on a car stereo, iPODs, music phones and PMPs. The difference is only audible when you have a pretty decent high end audio setup with quality cables and connectors. For a usual/casual setup..... CDs (at what ever bit/sample rate) and MP3 (any bitrate above 128kbps) would sound more or less same ....

I still dont understand how a Rs.199/-CD and Rs.399/-CD with the EXACT SAME DATA are different. Except, the Rs.399/-CD may last intact a lot longer.

Sorry for repearing the same thing again and again and again, but I'm just not convinced otherwise.

 

[doors666]

Most of the pre-1995 cds will be good. Check on wiki for loudness wars.
If a cd says digitally remastered, chances are pretty good it will sound like shit. look for "from original master tapes".

There are some remastering engineers that do excellent job. check on steve hoffman forums for a list of good ones. that site is a gold mine for information on good quality cds and vinyls.

I have tons of pre-95 US cds that i wont sell for anything in the world. these just sound awesome compared to the new ones (same cds, re-released).

 

[sachin_k5]

My experience:
"Teri Sajani" - Indian compilation of sufi songs Rs.199- Excellent quality, soul stirring.

"Power Ballads" - Complilation of soft rock Rs.395 - Total crap and waste of money , can't enjoy the music at all.


Audiophile answer to the problem discussed in this thread:
"Get a $1000 CD Player"

 

[doors666]

Audiophile answer to the problem discussed in this thread:
"Get a $1000 CD Player"

Nope, not true. a great cd player will reveal the flaws even more. if a cd sounds like crap on a decent system, on an audiophile system it will sound totally disgusting and unlistenable.

The basic principle is GIGO. garbage in garbage out:lol:

 

[smedhavi]

There are enough threads on this forum explaining why Audio-CD is a format that looks like CD-ROM but is more prone to errors. I will not repeat them again here. A lot of valid points have already been made in this thread. So let us assume for a moment that two copies of a CD are not the same even if you used disc copy. RPG/HamaraCD is mastering CDs from MP3, while we argue about the higher resolutions

Here are my suggestions for the original question:

For English CD's go to Acousticsounds, or Prithvi (Absolute Phase) on this forum. The pressings from these premium companies do sound a lot better. The exotic formats (such as XRCD) almost always sound better, though not necessarily because of the superiority of the format. Sometimes, it may be just because they did a more sincere job at mastering and pressing the disk to prove that their format is better, but who cares what the reason is as long as it sounds better. Please note that these CDs are much costlier than their mass market versions. At the same time I end up listening to them 10 times more than other CDs, so they are surely worth the money. In the process, you might also get exposed to great musicians and voices like Jacintha and Jheena.

Indian music on WATER LILY ACOUSTIC label is always a safe bet and sounds great. You can also find some of these locally at Landmark store or RhythmHouse.

Among Indian CDs, Sony mostly stands out. I am not fond of their electronics, but their CD are good. Typically, Music-Today CDs are well mastered, but have a bad media quality. So backup the CD (using a software such as EAC), as soon as you receive it.

Unfortunately, HMV owns most of the Hindi music, and cares the least about the quality of the mastering. You will not know of the quality till you buy it.

Polydor did really good job in the late 70's and early 80's. Unfortunately the pressings of these albums being released now by Universal are much brighter and lack the depth. Look for the original LPs. The Verve label from Universal has some really good Jazz releases.

 

[arin]

Max is 44K, though SACDs goes up to 96. but is there a minimum standard. And I am talking about the bitrate, not the sampling rate, you can still have a lower bitrate with the same 44K sampling rate. And I am also not talking about ripping, but the companies which can fiddle around with the bitrate before the CD is authorized, lowering the quality somewhat ..... Another parameter is bit depth, which is usually 16bits. Point is there are too many ways the audio can be sampled and authorized on a CD (despite of the fact the CD itself has a stranded norm) and that could in all probability be the reason of low quality audio from cheap CDss, irrespective of if 1 and 0s are copied exactly.

I would also like to bring a point that all these differences would not matter on a car stereo, iPODs, music phones and PMPs. The difference is only audible when you have a pretty decent high end audio setup with quality cables and connectors. For a usual/casual setup..... CDs (at what ever bit/sample rate) and MP3 (any bitrate above 128kbps) would sound more or less same ....

every cd that i have heard was recorded at 44.1khz and 1411.2 kbps even the poor quality old hindi cds like the dil se ,which has peculiar recording layer and T-series 42 rupees audio cds.The soundstage and build quality do take a hit. I had bought "DON" (srk's) audio-cd for 160rs with nice cardboard case with picture booklet the day it was released. last month i bought a backup copy for 42Rs. The sound quality is consistent. I mean no observable change even when listening through my biamped headphones. Only thing different is the cd cover, which is an easily breakaable plastic one with single page cover.

The sound quality is not that much dependent on the quality of CD as it is on the recording and playback equiptments. There will ofcouse be slight difference between the pressings of different labels pressing but the difference is not as phenomenol as the difference that was noticed between Indian cassettes and foriegn made cassettes in the yesteryears(when sony and universal cassettes had the label "recorded on imported cassete")

 

[alpha1]

Only thing that matters is who was on the mixing console.
And who mastered the album.
(Recording company)

Once you make a digital master - all everyone does is copy it.

By any chance is anyone here implying that he can make out difference between a CD burned on (say) Sony media compared to Moser Baer media?

 

[anandkrishnantc]

With my limited knowledge, any Compact Discs/ DVDs will undergo material changes (since they are made from some forms of poly carbonates and others) with the time. Any good quality CD will retain its original material qualities for a limited time ..may be a few years. This is due to the chemical and physical property of it ,, and we have to live with it.

Like any consumer product, nowadays, the quality is much lesser than it was produced long back when both manufacuters and the consumers wanted the products last for ever.... at least for a long time. Nowadays every product is made for just satistying some sensation...craze... after some time of usage , sell it or exchange it for a newer model to satisfy some other craze and trends.... So the manufacturers also happy getting their business moving...

eg., Repairing a CD player is much costly and headache than getting a new one...Even applicable to a tv as well.

So in order to keep the original recordings, its better to take a backup in a HDD and record it on a very good quality CD when the old one starts crying...

Or we still have to wait when scientists come out with the breakthru invention of a recording method and a media to record and store Analogue signals forever ....(the absence of which force us to handle the analogue stuff in digital even though the source and the sinks are pure analogue and thats what we want and thats what make sense to us either audio or video or still picture....)
Experts will know, you cant match the audio quality of a new magnetic tape recording (analogue direct) to any latest digital media with any high sampling level...thats y Vinyles are selling hot cakes even in 2010.

Anand

 

[kendun]

Indian music on WATER LILY ACOUSTIC label is always a safe bet and sounds great. You can also find some of these locally at Landmark store or RhythmHouse.

Agree with that comment Sharad.I have a CD of A meeting by the river (waterlily records) and it is a really nice CD.

 

[gobble]

I have a few Charsur label CDs where the mastering is defective (missing tracks) or recording is horrible (remastered 1960s 70s original). I dont have a bill for these CDs hence could not return back to shop.

Will Charsur exchange these directly?

 

[hifiashok]

Very interesting observations...here are some of mine...mostly empirical based on experience-

1. Invariably imported CDs sound better than Indian recordings..even if the release is through the Indian arm of the Label. By sounding better, I mean that the sound stage is more dynamic, instrument separation is better and clarity and effect of mixing stands out. These differences will show up even in an entry level dedicated stereo system.

there is a nice option available for this. the recent eagles album, available in indian and original pressing, one red and the other brown jacket..... to compare.

2. Recording quality of albums are better than that of compilations of the same label/ artist! Surprising!

differing studio, recording levels, etc., conditions at the time of original mastering, attempted to be normalised at the time of compilation, unsuccessfully!

3. Releases from the EU are the best followed by US releases

will agree with roc on the japo ones, like TBM, LIM and of course JVC XRCD, XRCD2 and XRCD24.

4.Have particularly enjoyed the quality of releases of Vertigo, A&M, Sony (US), Universal (us) for Rock

mercury, decca and naxos too.

5. Impact of ageing: Indian CDs that I had purchased in '98-'99 have deteriorated in physical appearance-ie the recorded surface has developed some cloudy patches which sometimes are removed on cleaning with handwash...but invariably persist. No deterioration seen on a set of 25 CDs i had purchased in 1999 in the US.

one of my fav shuba mudgal 'ali more angana' magnasound CDs died of old age on me.

I still dont understand how a Rs.199/-CD and Rs.399/-CD with the EXACT SAME DATA are different. Except, the Rs.399/-CD may last intact a lot longer.

Sorry for repearing the same thing again and again and again, but I'm just not convinced otherwise.

look up the various 'cheap tweaks' suggested for CDs, like stickering the top surface, blackening the edge, sand-papering the edge, de-magmetising, de-staticing, etc., etc., and with 'justifications' and 'changes' and/or 'improvements' to the SQ.

Indian music on WATER LILY ACOUSTIC label is always a safe bet and sounds great. You can also find some of these locally at Landmark store or RhythmHouse.

wonder how almost all the WLA label CDs @Rhythm House are Apr 23, 2003 arrival!! and, unfortunately the one i wanted, A Meeting By The River, is unavailable.:indifferent14:

Agree with that comment Sharad.I have a CD of A meeting by the river (waterlily records) and it is a really nice CD.

:sad:

lucky u!

 

[audiowhat]

This is a very good thread! Have been wondering about these issues myself.

 

[kendun]

:sad:

lucky u!

Well,paid a bit more than the amount on rhythm house though as bought it off Amazon UK.

 

[madbullram]

@Hifiashok: Do use the Multi Quote feature instead of replying separately for each and every reply. I have multi quoted your above replies into one to start with.

 

[hifiashok]

@Hifiashok: Do use the Multi Quote feature instead of replying separately for each and every reply. I have multi quoted your above replies into one to start with.

Does make sense. Is this an available feature, or needs to be done manually?

Also, how are you able to pack so much into your signature. I get limits.

 

[santhosh]

Also, how are you able to pack so much into your signature. I get limits.

By reducing the font size, you can fit in a few more characters. But MBR seems to know another way as his signature seems to have more.

@ Mods: Maybe we should allow a few more characters in the signature. Request you to consider this. TIA.

 

[Subcenter2009]

Dear Folks,

Kindly read up this article on the "Spars code"

Most Hi end CDs display 3 letter indicators of the potential quality of the Audio CDs like: AAD, ADD, DAD, DDD etc.

Now, these symbols are becoming increasingly rare..

AAD means recording using analogue methods, Mixing using analogue methods and pressing using digital. This is the worst potential quality.

DDD means all three stages using digital methods. This gives possibly the best quality.

Although many ADD CDs do sound brilliantly recorded in fact..

Most HI quality CDs display these symbols.

Read up here: SPARS code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Subcenter2009