HT Speakers Upgrade done. Experience and Queries

[maxms]

Hello FM's.
I had finally got all speakers upgraded from my htib stock speakers gradually over last few months. Though of sharing my experience and also to get your expert advice on few queries.
Following are the new speakers in setup. Receiver is currently Onkyo HTR380 from htib.
Polk T15 (Front LR)
Polk T30 (Center)
Polk OWM2 (Surrounds)
BIC America F12 (Sub-woofer)

Experience :
Of these i would say main improvements in SQ came with adding T15 Front LR. Audio is nice and smooth , imaging is good and lot more details can now be heard.

Other major improvement was with addition of sub-woofer. Movie watching experience is much better with much better bass and thump.Not sure if its placebo, but also felt that after subwoofer addition there was slight improvement in Front LR also.
As a side effect of above two, though system was primarily set up for movie watching with minimal music needs but with above additions I had also started to enjoy music. May be effect of better audio .

Polk OWM3 surrounds have also been good and there is improvement in sound effects and clarity now.

Least improvement was on upgrading Center channel. Though fine, but there was no considerable improvement compared to stock speaker.

As there is no room calibration with receiver all setup was done manually and trusting my ears.

 

[maxms]

Queries:
Now coming to queries and suggestions

First is for center channel. As mentioned in above thread there is no considerable improvement from stock though had highly expected it with much better components in new speakers .Not sure if something I am doing incorrectly here. Looking for suggestions on if some setup has to be corrected.

2nd one is on subwoofer. As receiver does not have LFE port, subwoofer is connected using high level inputs. Receiver Front LR out goes to receiver and have connected speakers to LR out in Sub.As there is no room correction in receiver, I had tries to setup crossover and volume manually based on hearing only.
Wanted to check if what is the proper way to setup and calibrate subwoofer in case using high lever inputs and outputs on sub.
I assume that several FM with Stereo amp might be using similar way to use sub. How are you setting up crossover and volume on subwoofer?
Also For most places sub-woofer is very good with nice, clean and bass feel and gels with other audio well. However in some contents bass is very boomy and unclear also is very loud which overpowers other speakers. Any suggestions what could be reason for this and how to fix.

 

[Narasimhan_M]

Queries:
Now coming to queries and suggestions

First is for center channel. As mentioned in above thread there is no considerable improvement from stock though had highly expected it with much better components in new speakers .Not sure if something I am doing incorrectly here. Looking for suggestions on if some setup has to be corrected.

What's the volume level the center is set to ? Try bumping up the volume for the center alone and observe.

Check if your receiver has any DRC feature. Switching it on would greatly improve the vocals.

 

[maxms]

What's the volume level the center is set to ? Try bumping up the volume for the center alone and observe.

Check if your receiver has any DRC feature. Switching it on would greatly improve the vocals.

Center speaker is set at +2db is speaker level setup, other speakers at at 0db.
Most of the time this is fine but for few contents dialogues are still barely audible at normal volume level. Like in Gravity movie dialogues at starting few mins are not audible at all , was expecting improvement in such scenes after upgrading to better center speaker. If not for subtitles would not have known that something is being spoken at my normal volume level for first couple mins. (this is with atmos track) . Rest all movie same volume level is good
If other users can play starting scene of Gravity and share their feedback?

Do not found anything like DRC in receiver setup. Can you please explain what this functionality is , may be is there with some other name.

 

[Narasimhan_M]

Center speaker is set at +2db is speaker level setup, other speakers at at 0db.
Most of the time this is fine but for few contents dialogues are still barely audible at normal volume level. Like in Gravity movie dialogues at starting few mins are not audible at all , was expecting improvement in such scenes after upgrading to better center speaker. If not for subtitles would not have known that something is being spoken at my normal volume level for first couple mins. (this is with atmos track) . Rest all movie same volume level is good
If other users can play starting scene of Gravity and share their feedback?

Do not found anything like DRC in receiver setup. Can you please explain what this functionality is , may be is there with some other name.

As an experiment, bump up the volume to 6 or 7 db and observe. If its okay without any distortion, enjoy it.

 

[elangoas]

Also For most places sub-woofer is very good with nice, clean and bass feel and gels with other audio well. However in some contents bass is very boomy and unclear also is very loud which overpowers other speakers. Any suggestions what could be reason for this and how to fix.

Try changing the location of the sub.. But with the connectivity you have, it may be difficult to change the location..

Center speaker is set at +2db is speaker level setup, other speakers at at 0db.
Most of the time this is fine but for few contents dialogues are still barely audible at normal volume level. Like in Gravity movie dialogues at starting few mins are not audible at all , was expecting improvement in such scenes after upgrading to better center speaker. If not for subtitles would not have known that something is being spoken at my normal volume level for first couple mins. (this is with atmos track) .

This probably could be because center speaker is playing full range.. If at all the AVR had sub pre-out, it would have cut the low bass from all the speakers and re-directed it to sub..

 

[maxms]

As an experiment, bump up the volume to 6 or 7 db and observe. If its okay without any distortion, enjoy it.

Sure. Let me try this. But will increasing gain on center speaker this much wont overpower or adversely affect other channels?

 

[Narasimhan_M]

Sure. Let me try this. But will increasing gain on center speaker this much wont overpower or adversely affect other channels?

To my knowledge, it won't since I am using this level for the last few years

 

[maxms]

Try changing the location of the sub.. But with the connectivity you have, it may be difficult to change the location.

Yep Limited options on sub placement as Front LR are also connected to sub only. Though most played content are good in same setup. Have faced this bomminess/loudness with few movies only. If issue was with all contents may be would have tried few other things.
Thats why was looking for pointers on how others are doing subwoofer calibration is a stereo setup where speakers are connected via subwoofer.

This probably could be because center speaker is playing full range.. If at all the AVR had sub pre-out, it would have cut the low bass from all the speakers and re-directed it to sub..

Currently have setup front LR speakers as large, so all the frequency should be going to Front LR and subwoofer.. In subwoofer crossover is set at 100 so this would crossover for Front LR.
Crossover in receiver is set at 120. Receiver has a singer crossover setting so assuming all other speaker (center and surrounds) are using that. Tried other crossovers also but not much luck.


My Receiver does has as sub out,(not LFE out) which was connecting earlier passive subwoofer. Can I connect this sub out to BIC F12 high level input is yes , then what is correct way? also will this help with above issues.

 

[MaSh]

Nice setup. Although I would suggest a slight change in how you wire your setup.

1. Subwoofer: Connect the Sub via the SUB speaker level out on your receiver. Connect the front speakers as usual to the front speaker out on the receiver. The Sub will not use the Receiver's amp, it will only use the signal. Run the Sub crossover at max, so that you can use the crossover on the Receiver which is a better option. Set the crossover for speakers to 80Hz. Do not forget to Set subwoofer to Yes in your speaker configuration.

2. Center speaker level: Are you using an SPL meter in your mobile or an SPL measuring device? Measure the SPL with the receiver set to 0dB. Then the SPL for the speakers should be around 75db and set Sub to 80dB(adjust the volume/gain knob on sub). Once done, increase the center speaker level by 2db.

Try this out and let us know is you see a change

MaSh

 

[elangoas]

Currently have setup front LR speakers as large, so all the frequency should be going to Front LR and subwoofer.. In subwoofer crossover is set at 100 so this would crossover for Front LR.

Is there an option of setting subwoofer to NO in AVR ?.. And after doing this, if the AVR allows you to adjust crossover for center & surrounds, then you may be just lucky.. You can use the connectivity as it is now, as the sub will handle all the lows from all speakers..

Crossover in receiver is set at 120.

Hope it is LPF for LFE content, that should be left default with 120.. If it is speakers crossover, then set it to 100Hz..

Receiver has a singer crossover setting so assuming all other speaker (center and surrounds) are using that. Tried other crossovers also but not much luck.

Do you mean global crossover settings for all speakers ?..

My Receiver does has as sub out,(not LFE out) which was connecting earlier passive subwoofer. Can I connect this sub out to BIC F12 high level input is yes , then what is correct way? also will this help with above issues.

I haven't tried this.. From what FM @MaSh pointed out, it should work.. Try it and see..

 

[maxms]

To my knowledge, it won't since I am using this level for the last few years

Tried this but did not make much difference. Changed Center speaker gain to +7 db..though volume is higher in general but very minute actual gain for faint background dialogues.

 

[maxms]

Thanks @MaSh and @elangoas for your time

Is there an option of setting subwoofer to NO in AVR ?.. And after doing this, if the AVR allows you to adjust crossover for center & surrounds, then you may be just lucky.. You can use the connectivity as it is now, as the sub will handle all the lows from all speakers..

Do you mean global crossover settings for all speakers ?..

There is option to set Subwoofer as NO in AVR and have already done that. Setting this automatically sets front speakers as large.
Yes its global crossover. Manual says setting front speakers to large will send all frequencies to front. So assuming here that now receiver crossover will work on Center and surrounds only.

1. Subwoofer: Connect the Sub via the SUB speaker level out on your receiver. Connect the front speakers as usual to the front speaker out on the receiver. The Sub will not use the Receiver's amp, it will only use the signal. Run the Sub crossover at max, so that you can use the crossover on the Receiver which is a better option. Set the crossover for speakers to 80Hz. Do not forget to Set subwoofer to Yes in your speaker configuration.

I haven't tried this.. From what FM @MaSh pointed out, it should work.. Try it and see..

Can try this but have some queries on how to do it properly. First I hope connecting in such a way will not cause any issue with either receiver or subwoofer electronics. Asking this because subwoofer speaker level input output mentions to use them only if there is no sub out on receiver. Also if this will increase load on receiver and reduce power for other speaker.

Other query is Sub out from receiver, can this be connected to only one IN on sub or to both..if both then how to do it.

Attaching back panels from receiver ans sub for better clarity.

 

[maxms]

2. Center speaker level: Are you using an SPL meter in your mobile or an SPL measuring device? Measure the SPL with the receiver set to 0dB. Then the SPL for the speakers should be around 75db and set Sub to 80dB(adjust the volume/gain knob on sub). Once done, increase the center speaker level by 2db.

Can try to do this. Only problem i see is that quite room might be needed to check this. But with kids and family members very rarely i can got that quite room .may be few days till I am able to try this and share my findings.
I got one SPL meter app for mobile and used that. But not sure how good it is. I know mobile app may not provide accurate readings but Is there any suggested app which can provide nearby readings.

 

[MaSh]

Can try to do this. Only problem i see is that quite room might be needed to check this. But with kids and family members very rarely i can got that quite room .may be few days till I am able to try this and share my findings.
I got one SPL meter app for mobile and used that. But not sure how good it is. I know mobile app may not provide accurate readings but Is there any suggested app which can provide nearby readings.

Yes that is an issue. If you can, try doing around 3:00am. I have noticed thats the time when there is least risk of waking up anyone, the dogs are done fighting, cats are done crying, babies around the society are done crying, etc. Switch off the fridge if its close to the listening room. In the set it to C weighted and then measure. Its fairly accurate.

MaSh

 

[MaSh]

Can try this but have some queries on how to do it properly. First I hope connecting in such a way will not cause any issue with either receiver or subwoofer electronics. Asking this because subwoofer speaker level input output mentions to use them only if there is no sub out on receiver. Also if this will increase load on receiver and reduce power for other speaker.

Other query is Sub out from receiver, can this be connected to only one IN on sub or to both..if both then how to do it.

Attaching back panels from receiver ans sub for better clarity.

Speaker level input is meant to be connected to am amp. The sub will only taste the signal from it and not use the receiver's power. You can connect it to either left or right input on Sub since the receiver is sending out a Mono signal.

MaSh

 

[maxms]

Yes that is an issue. If you can, try doing around 3:00am. I have noticed thats the time when there is least risk of waking up anyone, the dogs are done fighting, cats are done crying, babies around the society are done crying, etc.

Haha..This was true some years back. But now days I see there is one or other disturbance coming in even at late hrs. Quite environment is at a premium now days.
May take few days to get this done but will definitely try.
Any suggested audio/video clip which i should be using to get these readings?

 

[maxms]

Speaker level input is meant to be connected to am amp. The sub will only taste the signal from it and not use the receiver's power. You can connect it to either left or right input on Sub since the receiver is sending out a Mono signal.

Thanks for info. Will connect this way and check.

 

[ketansethi1987]

Make sure center speaker is set to large. This is the only problem I can think of which might be causing problem.

I have same HTIB and changes all speakers to sony. Most of the difference was made by the center speaker I felt finally I have a home theater.

I am using passive subwoofers powered by a subwoofer amplifier feeding the signals using subwoofer out of the passive subwoofer from the AVR using a high to low level impedance converter as the subwoofer amplifier does not have option for high level inputs. In your case you can divide the subwoofer output from AVR into two and feed both inputs in your subwoofer. It will take less electricity this way I gues as it will get more input signal.

 

[maxms]

Another update after long time.
Finally took the plunge and got upgraded receiver to Denon x2700.
Old receiver had started showing signs of age with sometime audio stopped to come from left front channel, tightening the knobs at back used to fix that. might be some bad solder only but was not feeling energetic enough to open and troubleshoot further. Also receiver upgrade was planned from long time so decided to get a new one. Was waiting since few month for prices to rationalize and , was just calling few dealers to check availability and current prices previous weekend and one offered a decent pricing so in moment decided to finalize.
Though could have waited for some more time but was getting tired of waiting and decided to go ahead with life .

Did not got time to do much setup, just swapped wiring and ran Audyssey late in night few days back.
Sound has definitely improved, high are coming much better , vocals are more clear and most important able to utilize my subwoofer properly now .

Earlier sub was connected to high level speaker out from AVR (no LFE port) and there was audible humm sound when it was not getting sub signal, so it was mostly kept off.

Still to dig down more and fine tune the setup. Hopefully sound may improve further.