Indian TV reviewers

Alphaforest

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This post is being written out of frustration and the amount of misinformation being spread by Indian reviewers. Using lux meters to test the panel and providing subjective opinions about panel and color reproduction. I don't even know how to educate people about what it means to review a display tech properly but the amount of bs coming out of the mouth of these reviewers is astonishing. Apparently, they are so good that they can judge color accuracy and color space just by looking at the panel. The only tech reviewer I have found to be comparable to International standards is Digit. But some of these reviewers are just full of themselves and even disregard rtings at times. Tv units can vary from region to region but a VA panel is going to remain the same, suddenly Samsung or Hisense isn't going to manufacture a new IPS panel for a different model. I saw a review today of Samsung Frame 2022 (i guess you know who I am talking about). He claims the Indian unit is different from the USA unit, I haven't heard anything about the Indian Unit of Samsung the frame 2022 is different from the USA unit. Also, using a lux meter to measure brightness and then reading lux numbers as nits? WTF, what kind of testing methodology is that? Something seriously needs to change, people are being misinformed and lots of wrong information is being propagated by ill-educated people. Tech is already overpriced in India compared to PPP and without proper reviews, with hard data points, people are spending money on something being hyped for no apparent reason. I hope you guys can provide your insight and maybe even provide a way to educate people in the right way.

Thank you
 
I feel your lament.
I think misinformation is rife in many aspects of our lives today. Anyone can pose as an expert on any subject and disdain for specialists in any field has become normalised.

Widespread internet and social media use has democratised access to information but unfortunately does not substitute for the skill in differentiating between fact and fiction.

The self proclaimed expert “”TV reviewers” can get away making absurd claims and sharing ridiculous opinions because … they can, and because experts who actually know tend to keep quiet and don’t bother to challenge them. Or when they call them out, their voices are drowned in a manufactured clamour or they face personal insults and attacks.

All that is needed is some ability to write or speak convincingly, with dramatic flair, a smartphone camera and access to the internet and social media and lo behold the “expert” is on his/her way to lakhs of “likes” and lots of money too.

I feel you have highlighted a problem that extends far beyond dubious TV reviews. The roots of this lie elsewhere.
 
Everyone is an expert today in YouTube or other social media. Just like the oversmart sales person of an electronics showroom - almost everyone has some special affection to a specific brand! The informed population don't get fooled but an average Joe falls for the sweet talk and ends up purchasing something which is not something he should have purchased.
 
I feel your lament.
I think misinformation is rife in many aspects of our lives today. Anyone can pose as an expert on any subject and disdain for specialists in any field has become normalised.

Widespread internet and social media use has democratised access to information but unfortunately does not substitute for the skill in differentiating between fact and fiction.

The self proclaimed expert “”TV reviewers” can get away making absurd claims and sharing ridiculous opinions because … they can, and because experts who actually know tend to keep quiet and don’t bother to challenge them. Or when they call them out, their voices are drowned in a manufactured clamour or they face personal insults and attacks.

All that is needed is some ability to write or speak convincingly, with dramatic flair, a smartphone camera and access to the internet and social media and lo behold the “expert” is on his/her way to lakhs of “likes” and lots of money too.

I feel you have highlighted a problem that extends far beyond dubious TV reviews. The roots of this lie elsewhere.
yes, the lack of someone like HDTVtest in India is one of the reasons. It's only going to get worse as most of the "reviewers" know it's easy to read specs and fool the people, so why put in the effort? As a community of enthusiasts, I believe it is our responsibility to guide people, and it depends on communities like us to take on this challenge. We have the power as a community to educate the people, raise the standards, and justify what it means to review TVs.
 
Everyone is an expert today in YouTube or other social media. Just like the oversmart sales person of an electronics showroom - almost everyone has some special affection to a specific brand! The informed population don't get fooled but an average Joe falls for the sweet talk and ends up purchasing something which is not something he should have purchased.
yes, I agree with you however I believe it's not the fault of the average joe to fall victim to just "Scams". The Internet is a very new thing and so is money for a lot of people. Having the power to spend money on wants and not just needs is one of the factors. Uninformed masses also try to educate themselves before making a purchase. They might seek help from a friend or family member who might have recently purchased but even those people are exposed to the wrong content. Bringing forward quality content should be our focus.
 
There are obviously paid idiots like Vineet Malhotra who are just generating clickbait and are best ignored.

I think the most dangerous are the ones like Techibeez who show that they are knowledgeable but are absolutely not. I remember not long ago she made a video criticizing Vineet and showing how he was wrong, and then showing how much better she is. As an example, she showed how she can count zones and counted them wrong lol, missing the top right zone in counting vertical zones.

Digit is pretty decent though. They use objective measurements.
 
There are obviously paid idiots like Vineet Malhotra who are just generating clickbait and are best ignored.

I think the most dangerous are the ones like Techibeez who show that they are knowledgeable but are absolutely not. I remember not long ago she made a video criticizing Vineet and showing how he was wrong, and then showing how much better she is. As an example, she showed how she can count zones and counted them wrong lol, missing the top right zone in counting vertical zones.

Digit is pretty decent though. They use objective measurements.
Yes very true. Ones like Techibeez and Vineet are much worse than ones who just read out specs. I was surprised about iGyaan though. They are a much bigger studio and can afford better spectrophotometer and colorimeters. However even they review TV on based on subjective opinions and I saw them using a lux meter to measure brightness of Xiaomi OLED. When these people don’t understand difference between luminance and illuminance, how can they expect us to believe them. Yet hundreds of thousands fall for their words and worship them like gods
 
I find it amusing how people want their standard to be the universal standard. How they want others to buy what they say is good. How because they read on the internet they are the experts on some topic or item. Like opinion (other than theirs) doesn't exist. How numbers are gods.

By the way I ignore everything rtings says, very happily and satisfactorily. Rtings is for number pushers, I see with my eyes. Nice thread. Have a nice day.
 
I find it amusing how people want their standard to be the universal standard. How they want others to buy what they say is good. How because they read on the internet they are the experts on some topic or item. Like opinion (other than theirs) doesn't exist. How numbers are gods.

By the way I ignore everything rtings says, very happily and satisfactorily. Rtings is for number pushers, I see with my eyes. Nice thread. Have a nice day.
I respect your opinion but I do have a very valid argument. Most of the public would prefer cooler temperature but me on the other hand, I prefer whites set to D65. Not because I always liked the look of it but I fell in love with it over the time calibrating displays. Also numbers provide a solid reference point if the manufacturer is lying or not. Many displays fall short of WCG inspite of claiming it, many fall short on accuracy of the Color displayed. Numbers are just reference points, they are loose guides and you are free to tweak them to your liking but they are important in my option as they standardise the process and provide a reliable reference. Subjective opinions are not reliable source for general public as not everyone likes the same thing. RTINGS and HDTVTest are meant to be absorbed as loose guides with solid reference point and you are free to tweak as much as you like. Standard reference points provide a good starting point to measure the caliber of different displays. I feel like every science, standards are important and so is maintaining them.
 
I respect your opinion but I do have a very valid argument. Most of the public would prefer cooler temperature but me on the other hand, I prefer whites set to D65. Not because I always liked the look of it but I fell in love with it over the time calibrating displays. Also numbers provide a solid reference point if the manufacturer is lying or not. Many displays fall short of WCG inspite of claiming it, many fall short on accuracy of the Color displayed. Numbers are just reference points, they are loose guides and you are free to tweak them to your liking but they are important in my option as they standardise the process and provide a reliable reference. Subjective opinions are not reliable source for general public as not everyone likes the same thing. RTINGS and HDTVTest are meant to be absorbed as loose guides with solid reference point and you are free to tweak as much as you like. Standard reference points provide a good starting point to measure the caliber of different displays. I feel like every science, standards are important and so is maintaining them.

You certainly have a right to your opinion but I wouldn't call your argument valid, it essentially boils down to you feeling that people are being fooled with opinions that endorse TVs that you/rtings find to be inferior. In my humble view people have the right to not only choose what to buy but also to decide what is superior (for them). The fallacy made by rtings or number pushes is they assume certain parameters are "best" and push that as the basis for objective superiority, bypassing both individual opinions/preferences and perception. In an effort to simplify and achieve a reference standard for objective superiority the human element and the express purpose of subjective perception is lost. Just my views, in any case not looking to argue but have fun!
 
You certainly have a right to your opinion but I wouldn't call your argument valid, it essentially boils down to you feeling that people are being fooled with opinions that endorse TVs that you/rtings find to be inferior. In my humble view people have the right to not only choose what to buy but also to decide what is superior (for them). The fallacy made by rtings or number pushes is they assume certain parameters are "best" and push that as the basis for objective superiority, bypassing both individual opinions/preferences and perception. In an effort to simplify and achieve a reference standard for objective superiority the human element and the express purpose of subjective perception is lost. Just my views, in any case not looking to argue but have fun!
Okay so I do get what you’re trying to convey but I guess you are interpreting me the wrong way. Rtings have their own data points and their testing methodology is not just in house reference points. The numbers they generate are based on a testing methodology aimed to achieve the various standards set by different organisations for example UHD alliance. These do help in achieving a much more closer result to reference/mastering monitors that were used by the colourists to grade the movie. I believe that’s why reviewers like rtings and HDTVtest seem more elitist and sterile but they don’t serve the purpose of pleasing the taste and in the end a person is free to choose what they like. Those absolute numbers are for the ones who like absolutely the way it was intended imo but they also provide a good starting point for people to add their own flavour to what they would like to achieve. The issues with subjective opinions I have is that we cannot standardise them to compare them to one another to get a decent understanding. Indian reviewers not only disagree with each other but try to project their understanding of Color accuracy as absolute, those are the words that create absolute chaos. Subjective opinions can describe how good it might look to one person but not provide a standard data for let’s Color space or Color accuracy which is one of the requirement for HDR content. I can claim for any video to be HDR but without providing data that it covers a decent amount of Rec2020 Color space, my words are just words and meant to be taken with a grain of salt. In the end personal opinions differs and they should. That’s what makes the world beautiful but a baseline is an essential criteria imho.
 
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I find it amusing how people want their standard to be the universal standard. How they want others to buy what they say is good. How because they read on the internet they are the experts on some topic or item. Like opinion (other than theirs) doesn't exist. How numbers are gods.

By the way I ignore everything rtings says, very happily and satisfactorily. Rtings is for number pushers, I see with my eyes. Nice thread. Have a nice day.
TVs or any media is supposed to display content as close to reference as possible.

The reason this is important is because the content you watch is graded on reference monitors and the closer a TV can get to that reference the better it will display the creator’s intent.

The reason ‘I have eyes’ doesn’t work is because showrooms are terrible for auditioning TVs. The lighting, TV settings and TV locations are terrible and you don’t have the option to get them home, calibrate them (with phone, software or eyeballing) and then evaluate them.

Most of those Indian reviewers are paid by brands and call TV’s like Sony X80J/K ‘best TV 2022’. That TV is hot trash and I wouldn’t even wish on my enemy.

At least if someone gets objective numbers I can take them for that and interpret them without bias. Now some people can like some traits in TVs. Some might like higher brightness and go for Samsung QN90B while others prefer purer colours and go for Sony OLED.

Someone else’s subjective opinion is worthless to me as more often that not it’s taken in non ideal environment and he might not even prefer things I do. It’s like those audiophiles who preach nonsense snake oil which shows no difference in A/B testing when most DACs are transparent and digital audio makes cable quality moot.

Objective testing gives me a starting point to go look for TVs that at least clear a minimum bar I expect and then I can go audition them.
 
Okay so I do get what you’re trying to convey but I guess you are interpreting me the wrong way. Rtings have their own data points and their testing methodology is not just in house reference points. The numbers they generate are based on a testing methodology aimed to achieve the various standards set by different organisations for example UHD alliance. These do help in achieving a much more closer result to reference/mastering monitors that were used by the colourists to grade the movie. I believe that’s why reviewers like rtings and HDTVtest seem more elitist and sterile but they don’t serve the purpose of pleasing the taste and in the end a person is free to choose what they like. Those absolute numbers are for the ones who like absolutely the way it was intended imo but they also provide a good starting point for people to add their own flavour to what they would like to achieve. The issues with subjective opinions I have is that we cannot standardise them to compare them to one another to get a decent understanding. Indian reviewers not only disagree with each other but try to project their understanding of Color accuracy as absolute, those are the words that create absolute chaos. Subjective opinions can describe how good it might look to one person but not provide a standard data for let’s Color space or Color accuracy which is one of the requirement for HDR content. I can claim for any video to be HDR but without providing data that it covers a decent amount of Rec2020 Color space, my words are just words and meant to be taken with a grain of salt. In the end personal opinions differs and they should. That’s what makes the world beautiful but a baseline is an essential criteria imho.

No no, I interpret you fine, you believe in reference/standardisation (and the data to support it) and are upset some reviewers don't follow this. I don't agree. I feel reference is pointless and people are free to decide for themselves what they think is superior, in a free world I feel people have the freedom of speech to say anything, it is upto the viewer/listener to decide if they wish to follow the reviewers advice. I see no reason to get upset because of this. Just let it go. Personally I am against measurements in A/V devices, the reference is only for those who wish to "race" or those who wish to think they got good value for their money. I'm more interested in enjoying the product and less so in specs and numbers. Most people are like this. Heck most of the world probably doesn't even bother to see a review, I know I don't. Honestly I don't even understand why you are upset about it, it is such a trivial thing, let people do what they want.
 
TVs or any media is supposed to display content as close to reference as possible.

The reason this is important is because the content you watch is graded on reference monitors and the closer a TV can get to that reference the better it will display the creator’s intent.

The reason ‘I have eyes’ doesn’t work is because showrooms are terrible for auditioning TVs. The lighting, TV settings and TV locations are terrible and you don’t have the option to get them home, calibrate them (with phone, software or eyeballing) and then evaluate them.

Most of those Indian reviewers are paid by brands and call TV’s like Sony X80J/K ‘best TV 2022’. That TV is hot trash and I wouldn’t even wish on my enemy.

At least if someone gets objective numbers I can take them for that and interpret them without bias. Now some people can like some traits in TVs. Some might like higher brightness and go for Samsung QN90B while others prefer purer colours and go for Sony OLED.

Someone else’s subjective opinion is worthless to me as more often that not it’s taken in non ideal environment and he might not even prefer things I do. It’s like those audiophiles who preach nonsense snake oil which shows no difference in A/B testing when most DACs are transparent and digital audio makes cable quality moot.

Objective testing gives me a starting point to go look for TVs that at least clear a minimum bar I expect and then I can go audition them.

Incorrect. Display devices are meant to display video in a manner the viewer enjoys.
 
Incorrect. Display devices are meant to display video in a manner the viewer enjoys.
With respect, I disagree. If that were the case then Tv or monitor manufacturers will stop putting in the effort to make their displays more Color accurate and just slap basic colour rendering in the name of displaying Colors.
 
No no, I interpret you fine, you believe in reference/standardisation (and the data to support it) and are upset some reviewers don't follow this. I don't agree. I feel reference is pointless and people are free to decide for themselves what they think is superior, in a free world I feel people have the freedom of speech to say anything, it is upto the viewer/listener to decide if they wish to follow the reviewers advice. I see no reason to get upset because of this. Just let it go. Personally I am against measurements in A/V devices, the reference is only for those who wish to "race" or those who wish to think they got good value for their money. I'm more interested in enjoying the product and less so in specs and numbers. Most people are like this. Heck most of the world probably doesn't even bother to see a review, I know I don't. Honestly I don't even understand why you are upset about it, it is such a trivial thing, let people do what they want.
Yes finally I agree with you in something. I am not talking about making people choose the standard/most accurate display. Anyone can choose anything, whatever they like. If they don’t watch reviews to make decision then even that is fine, I honestly don’t care. My gripe is that when a reviewer presents a display as Color accurate but it isn’t. These reviewers use words that are inappropriate to use for a display without objective measurement. If someone wants to make a sound decision and buy a display that is highly accurate then these reviewers are no better than glorified salesman.
 
Incorrect. Display devices are meant to display video in a manner the viewer enjoys.
If that was the case, we’d have no standards like rec.709 and rec.2020 or even HDR. These are all standards that make your movie watching enjoyable as it looks like what the director intended.

Without this, you’d have a hot mess. Skin tones would look green/pink/purple and the mood the movie creator intended would never reach you.
 
A much needed and very eye opening thread for those looking to buy a TV (a bit late for me though :-() and kudos for that to the op.

I could only trust rtings during my recent musings - sadly they had not and still haven't reviewed a few of the products that I was interested in (e.g. LG QNED 81 which I ended up buying - trusting purely the technology and my eyes).

None of the YouTubers I saw use scientific methods. One may trust rtings and HDTVTest in my opinion.
 
With respect, I disagree. If that were the case then Tv or monitor manufacturers will stop putting in the effort to make their displays more Color accurate and just slap basic colour rendering in the name of displaying Colors.

The manufacturers are interested in selling units. The consumer is interested in using/enjoying the product. The segment that cares about "accurate" is small and irrelevant.

Yes finally I agree with you in something. I am not talking about making people choose the standard/most accurate display. Anyone can choose anything, whatever they like. If they don’t watch reviews to make decision then even that is fine, I honestly don’t care. My gripe is that when a reviewer presents a display as Color accurate but it isn’t. These reviewers use words that are inappropriate to use for a display without objective measurement. If someone wants to make a sound decision and buy a display that is highly accurate then these reviewers are no better than glorified salesman.

Why is that an issue? Why assume everyone who watches reviews wants color accuracy? Being color accurate in objective terms is different than subjective color preference which people may or may not perceive as accurate. Why is it necessary to backup with measurements? If you don't like their reviews then don't watch it? Why assume people want to make a "sound decision" for accuracy? Everyone is a glorified salesman, even the objective measurement people, they sell/recommend based on numbers, that's all. I don't see the difference. Even if we take your premise that they say something is accurate but it isnt objectively, it amounts to lying, why is that an issue? People lie worldwide on a daily basis. Have you never lied?
 
If that was the case, we’d have no standards like rec.709 and rec.2020 or even HDR. These are all standards that make your movie watching enjoyable as it looks like what the director intended.

Without this, you’d have a hot mess. Skin tones would look green/pink/purple and the mood the movie creator intended would never reach you.

Personally and for pretty much all the people I have ever met in real life, no one cares about these standards, most don't even know. I personally have no interest in directors intent, I doubt the directors intent is the perfect shade of green for example. I doubt the director cares as long as you paid for the movie. I only care about enjoying it.

A display device should look pleasing to th person watching, this doesn't mean the skin has to be purple, however if someone wishes a purple tint on the skin, what's wrong with it? Most displays out of the box are good enough without being particular about accuracy and people can tweak it as they please. The skin does not look purple on any display I've seen out of the box or in peoples homes or on various public places or showrooms. Objectivists have in my humble opinion become elitists. I also severely doubt a slight difference of skin tone would (for those who actually care) spoil the "mood" or the movie.
 
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