Indigenous Hi-Fi Amplifiers

[arj]

Because the people do not bother searching for what's out there for offer? They simply do not care about diverting from the well trodden path. Brands and dealers pay YouTube reviewers who shill for them and viewers blindly go for them based on someone's recommendation. This is literally why the entire market is flooded with Chinese stuff (especially for headphones and earphones, in that industry the fate of a product almost entirely depends on a reviewers' judgement, because the audience are blind followers of them) and due to this the lesser known brands are kept in the dark, as they don't have the budget to pay off dealers and reviewers or market their stuff aggressively. I'm not saying every mainstream brand is bad and only Indian brands are good. It's just that many of the people base their judgement on reviews instead of exploring other brands and routes themselves and going out to actually hear what is on offer. If one discovers a hidden gem and tells us, it benefits everyone.

I dont think you have answered @keith_correa query. The onus is on the manufacturer to increase awareness. Consumers buy what they feel is the right choice and will continue to be happy with the purchase but its the manufacturer who is losing a potential market share by not increasing awareness.

The other issue is size and risk. How many would buy equipment from a one person brand ( indian or otherwise) when you have a concern that if the brand closes down you are left high and dry hence the interest in a bigger brand which has less risk.

The other end of the spectrum is chinese..which is so cheap that you would not think twice if it fails

Of course all of us do have a vested interest that indian manufacturers do succeed. 2 brands which I know are there in quality are Rethm and Acoustic portrait. Lyrita makes wonderful products and a lower price range as great VFM as well. No idea of others as have not really personally experienced them but am sure from the talk they are good..they just need more visibility. very often being around for some time also helps.

Hope they come up..the market is there I am sure

 

[az9012]

I dont think you have answered @keith_correa query. The onus is on the manufacturer to increase awareness. Consumers buy what they feel is the right choice and will continue to be happy with the purchase but its the manufacturer who is losing a potential market share by not increasing awareness.

The other issue is size and risk. How many would buy equipment from a one person brand ( indian or otherwise) when you have a concern that if the brand closes down you are left high and dry hence the interest in a bigger brand which has less risk.

The other end of the spectrum is chinese..which is so cheap that you would not think twice if it fails

Of course all of us do have a vested interest that indian manufacturers do succeed. 2 brands which I know are there in quality are Rethm and Acoustic portrait. Lyrita makes wonderful products and a lower price range as great VFM as well. No idea of others as have not really personally experienced them but am sure from the talk they are good..they just need more visibility. very often being around for some time also helps.

Hope they come up..the market is there I am sure

Yes i also agree that the brands need to ramp up advertisement and marketing but like I said, they dont generate that much revenue to afford that and mostly rely on word of mouth. But yes...i agree with your points. Yeah, hope they come up for sure.

 

[arj]

well another way of looking is Spendor, SME, Siltech, crystal cable are all indian companies despite not being indigenous.

 

[Ajitsank]

Yes i also agree that the brands need to ramp up advertisement and marketing but like I said, they dont generate that much revenue to afford that and mostly rely on word of mouth. But yes...i agree with your points. Yeah, hope they come up for sure.

Jumping on this discussion with my thoughts, correct me if I am completely wrong. I am a owner for Torvin PA+Speakers since 2 years. Extreemly happy with it, infact I feel proud that Indian brands are realy good. I say it because I have been to an Audio meet where there where some of the Top International brands on demo. Listening to them for an whole day I could really feel proud that How our Indian Brands can stand up to some of them. I can only vouch for Torvin, I am 100% sure that rest of Indian Brands should be equally or more better than some of the International brands.

Marketing: This is where Small / Mid size Indian companies faulter. They simply do not have the budget to push for large scale advertisement or buy reviews both in Print and Internet. Since the volume of business is not that much as international brands, their budget to my understanding does not allow that. If they have to spend much money on advertisement which then needs to be recovered from customers. This can only be done by charging more which will then will never look attractive(Option 1) or short change on parts. (Option 2).

Option 1: Increase Price: Indian brands does not come cheap. They are equally priced like other international brand. Any increase in cashoutflow in advertisement or other means will be directly proportional to increase in price. Which then becomes less attractive as the human tendeancy is to go after well advertised and reviewed products. Read Internantion Brands.

Option 2: Cheap out on components: We know where this will end up. This needs no explanation.

I must add one point here: When I had placed order for Torvin there where lot of people who where aghast at my decision. Even telling me the parts are substandard. The cabinets are poor quality, the drivers are cheap stuff. I must admit I was worried. This is where our Indian brands come across hostility. Our own people kills them out right.

I got all my equipment checked by people who has some insight into components: Top quality Peerless drivers, top notch capacitors which are world renowned. Internal Cables from Italy. What not. Speakers cabinet build to withstand bombs. Internally reinforced much too well.

If you look at buying patern in this group you will see: People who are first time INdian Brand Buyers, tend to stick with the same brand when they upgrade. I myself will never touch any other brand than Torvin. Just love their Quality and I am sure to be backed for the entire life of the product.

Do chime In.

 

[DB1989]

well another way of looking is Spendor, SME, Siltech, crystal cable are all indian companies despite not being indigenous.

Whoa! I didn't know my Spendors were Indian. No wonder i was taken the moment i heard Indian music played through them - sweet sounding with brilliant vocals and instruments!

Analog chain - Rega Planar 1 > Ifi Zen Phono > Willsenton R8 > Spendor Classic 2/3
Digital Chain - Allo Digione+USBridge Signature>Chord Mojo > Willsenton R8 > Spendor Classic 2/3

 

[aeroash]

Whoa! I didn't know my Spendors were Indian. No wonder i was taken the moment i heard Indian music played through them - sweet sounding with brilliant vocals and instruments!

Analog chain - Rega Planar 1 > Ifi Zen Phono > Willsenton R8 > Spendor Classic 2/3
Digital Chain - Allo Digione+USBridge Signature>Chord Mojo > Willsenton R8 > Spendor Classic 2/3

View attachment 76263

Spendor? When did this happen!

 

[keith_correa]

Whoa! I didn't know my Spendors were Indian. No wonder i was taken the moment i heard Indian music played through them - sweet sounding with brilliant vocals and instruments!

Look up IAG - International Audio Group owned by the Chinese. The brands Mission, Luxman, Wharfedale, Audiolab etc are owned by IAG. I'm sure Oriental music sounds good when played through these. Indian music should sound equally good too.

Also, when we say Siltech and Crystal Cable are "Indian" - are we referencing the Ajay Shirke connection? If yes, I'm not too sure that Ajay Shirke owns these brands. Any pointers to the contrary will be illuminating to me.

Spendor? When did this happen!

I'd like to know too.

 

[sidvee]

Also, when we say Siltech and Crystal Cable are "Indian" - are we referencing the Ajay Shirke connection? If yes, I'm not too sure that Ajay Shirke owns these brands. Any pointers to the contrary will be illuminating to me.

Not too sure about the current status, but as I understand Shirke owns Audio Lounge which owns these brands.

History » Audio Lounge India

We were established by Ajay Shirke, one of the founding fathers of high-end audio excellence. We are not just retailers, we design, craft and manufacture many systems ourselves as part of the Cadence Group. This means we are able to control much of the development and delivery of your system...

audiolounge.in

Cheers,
Sid

 

[DB1989]

Spendor? When did this happen!

Not too long ago - couple of weeks

A nice opportunity presented itself and I'm a stickler for bargains! The speaker ain't half bad too!

Look up IAG - International Audio Group owned by the Chinese. The brands Mission, Luxman, Wharfedale, Audiolab etc are owned by IAG. I'm sure Oriental music sounds good when played through these. Indian music should sound equally good too.

Ahhh, i do have a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.2s and a Mission QX-2! Truth be told, i was quite taken aback by what i heard from the Evo's through the Willsenton - some songs sound better than the Spendors in a back to back! But its not a jack of all trades and excels only with specific genres/types of music. The Spendor is unflappable in this regard. And i did hear them through a Luxman 590AX-ii which is what got me!

The Mission QX-2 does everything well and its my go to recommendation to those who want great hi fi without spending an arm and a leg!

Also, when we say Siltech and Crystal Cable are "Indian" - are we referencing the Ajay Shirke connection? If yes, I'm not too sure that Ajay Shirke owns these brands. Any pointers to the contrary will be illuminating to me.

Colour me ignorant on these but i'm a shoe in too for more info!

 

[az9012]

Not too long ago - couple of weeks

A nice opportunity presented itself and I'm a stickler for bargains! The speaker ain't half bad too!


Ahhh, i do have a pair of Wharfedale Evo 4.2s and a Mission QX-2! Truth be told, i was quite taken aback by what i heard from the Evo's through the Willsenton - some songs sound better than the Spendors in a back to back! But its not a jack of all trades and excels only with specific genres/types of music. The Spendor is unflappable in this regard. And i did hear them through a Luxman 590AX-ii which is what got me!

The Mission QX-2 does everything well and its my go to recommendation to those who want great hi fi without spending an arm and a leg!

Colour me ignorant on these but i'm a shoe in too for more info!

I've found a buyer for my qx2 mk2. Gotta make room for signature Mishra v2. It's hard saying goodbye to it

 

[Phew]

Apart from the ownership which is cadence audio nothing else is indian about these brands

 

[arj]

Look up IAG - International Audio Group owned by the Chinese. The brands Mission, Luxman, Wharfedale, Audiolab etc are owned by IAG. I'm sure Oriental music sounds good when played through these. Indian music should sound equally good too.

Also, when we say Siltech and Crystal Cable are "Indian" - are we referencing the Ajay Shirke connection? If yes, I'm not too sure that Ajay Shirke owns these brands. Any pointers to the contrary will be illuminating to me.

I'd like to know too.

I had read the news some years back..maybe 8-9 years bac? ..he also owns Garrard and Loricraft . they are all still british brands, jsut owned by him

Ajay Shirke - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And here is a post at HIfi where he has written why Hi end is tough in india

Audio Lounge - London

Hi I think affordability of high end audio is generally the same all over the world,even in the developed west since its buyers are essentially hobbyists. Very few,anywhere in the world , would go for mega buck 2 channel systems without any interest in good sound and just to show off .Not so...

www.hifivision.com

 

[keith_correa]

Siltech and Crystal Cable are owned by "International Audio Holding" of which Shirke's group may be a part.

_Archief_Home - International Audio Holding

internationalaudioholding.com

Splendor is owned by Philip Swift one of the founders of Audiolab. I don't know how Shirke fits in with Mr. Swift.

Anyways, not our circus, not our monkeys!

 

[Phew]

https://pomanda.com/company/03888529/spendor-audio-systems-limited

How correct or accurate this is, is between spendor, cadence and pomanda

 

[Vineethkumar01]

"why are the drivers not flush mounted? There'll be so much edge diffraction" these people are audiofools.

In general, I agree with the overall sentiment of this thread that we really need to support our indigenous brands to grow and keep pushing the boundaries of state-of-the-art, especially in audio. But I just couldn't let the above comment go..
Flush mounting drivers is one of the very basic aspects to take care of in a speaker. Anybody serious about audio might have heard about diffraction and its ill effects. I am not explaining it again since I personally have discussed it to death on this forum.
So if brand 'X' offers speakers without that feature, it is just that they are not aware of the state-of-the-art in speaker design/didn't take that part of speaker engineering seriously/wanted to compromise it for something else (cost??)/even worse, thought that that level of suboptimality in design can be corrected in a later iteration of that speaker so that it can be touted as an improvement/new feature and price can be increased accordingly. The people who don't understand this and blindly promote brand 'X' are the real 'audio idiots' in my personal opinion. And as mentioned below:

Of course these guys don't even remember class 10 physics.

Because some amount of that 'class 10' and 'class 12' physics are needed to understand what is diffraction. among other things..

 

[keith_correa]

Because some amount of that 'class 10' and 'class 12' physics are needed to understand what is diffraction. among other things..

Wat ij physsichs? I haf heardt of Clash A and Clash D, butt neber heardt of Clash 10 and 12.

Sinceerly,
Audiofool who neber vent to schul.

 

[Ajitsank]

In general, I agree with the overall sentiment of this thread that we really need to support our indigenous brands to grow and keep pushing the boundaries of state-of-the-art, especially in audio. But I just couldn't let the above comment go..
Flush mounting drivers is one of the very basic aspects to take care of in a speaker. Anybody serious about audio might have heard about diffraction and its ill effects. I am not explaining it again since I personally have discussed it to death on this forum.
So if brand 'X' offers speakers without that feature, it is just that they are not aware of the state-of-the-art in speaker design/didn't take that part of speaker engineering seriously/wanted to compromise it for something else (cost??)/even worse, thought that that level of suboptimality in design can be corrected in a later iteration of that speaker so that it can be touted as an improvement/new feature and price can be increased accordingly. The people who don't understand this and blindly promote brand 'X' are the real 'audio idiots' in my personal opinion. And as mentioned below:

Because some amount of that 'class 10' and 'class 12' physics are needed to understand what is diffraction. among other things..

but then a speaker company like Tekton does not offer their drivers flush mounted. They need to learn speaker build is what you are conveying? I am no Professor in this, just asking out of curiosity.

 

[keith_correa]

but then a speaker company like Tekton does not offer their drivers fulsh mounted. They need to learn speaker build is what you are conveying? I am no Professor in this, just asking out of curiosity.

The tweeters are flush mounted which is of relevance at the frequencies which they reproduce. Having said that - there are many loudspeaker manufacturers which do not flush mount their tweeters and I guess they have their reasons (or not) for doing so. The diffraction effect is easily simulated so either they think that these effects are benign or...

 

[Vineethkumar01]

but then a speaker company like Tekton does not offer their drivers flush mounted. They need to learn speaker build is what you are conveying? I am no Professor in this, just asking out of curiosity.

I just looked at Tekton's page and saw that all their tweeters are flush-mounted..

Category: Monitors

tektondesign.com

Category: Center & Surround Speakers

tektondesign.com

For every company that can be cited as an example for non-flush mounted drivers, I can cite 100 other companies who do take the pains to flush mount drivers because they understand the engineering compromise involved..

Here is a relatively recent video about what Erin had to say about this matter:

The midbass/bass driver flush mounting may be less of an issue (depending on the crossover point) w.r.t high-frequency diffraction.
As I and others have repeated over and over in the past (in this forum), flush mounting is just a small part of the overall design optimization for a small 6.5-inch 2-way kind of speaker. More important aspects involve the overall baffle and cabinet shaping, considering the directivity targets of the design and crossover design. The effect of high-frequency diffraction is commonly seen in frequency response as a series of peaks and dips in the frequency response. However, their probably more audible effect is the screwing up of timing/smearing of imaging compared to a better-designed speaker at relatively high volume levels.

 

[DB1989]

I just looked at Tekton's page and saw that all their tweeters are flush-mounted..

Category: Monitors

tektondesign.com

Category: Center & Surround Speakers

tektondesign.com

For every company that can be cited as an example for non-flush mounted drivers, I can cite 100 other companies who do take the pains to flush mount drivers because they understand the engineering compromise involved..

Here is a relatively recent video about what Erin had to say about this matter:

The midbass/bass driver flush mounting may be less of an issue (depending on the crossover point) w.r.t high-frequency diffraction.
As I and others have repeated over and over in the past (in this forum), flush mounting is just a small part of the overall design optimization for a small 6.5-inch 2-way kind of speaker. More important aspects involve the overall baffle and cabinet shaping, considering the directivity targets of the design and crossover design. The effect of high-frequency diffraction is commonly seen in frequency response as a series of peaks and dips in the frequency response. However, their probably more audible effect is the screwing up of timing/smearing of imaging compared to a better-designed speaker at relatively high volume levels.

Can the edge diffraction of a non flush mounted tweeter be ameliorated by offsetting it such as that done on the Edifier 1280?

https://www.amazon.in/Edifier-R1280T-Bookshelf-Speaker-Brown/dp/B016P9HJIA/ref=asc_df_B016P9HJIA/?tag=googleshopmob-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=397107752360&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=94189018214663870&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061723&hvtargid=pla-408792870604&psc=1&ext_vrnc=hi