Is 4K worth it in 2021

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jagmarg

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I absolutely love my Panasonic 42" V20 plasma. FHD ...1080p. Been more than 10 years. So far ..so good. OTT in HD mostly and occasionally BluRay discs.

Wanted a bigger screen. Enter OLED... 65" screen size. Sony A80J most probably. Would have preferred A90J.. But it's not yet here in India.

However... after watching FHD content from Amazon Prime and YouTube in the Sony Center showroom ... I'm kind of in doubt if it is a buying choice I will only regret. Of course 4K demo videos look eye-watering. But FHD content looked nowhere close to the clean look that I currently see on my native FHD resolution plasma.

Just wanted to know what is the experience of owners of large screen 4K TV's in this group. Is upscaled FHD content on a 4K TV never going to be as satisfying? Also given that 4k content in OTT is also compressed... Are 4K BluRay's the only source for genuine 4k content with solid bitrates?

Should i just be content with my current TV. Was wondering if there a 65 inch FHD TV .. but max size for FHD TV's in stock seems to be limited to around 43 inches from what I could Google.

Please can you advice.. share your thoughts. Thank you
 
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Donivlapog

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I absolutely love my Panasonic 42" V20 plasma. FHD ...1080p. Been more than 10 years. So far ..so good. OTT in HD mostly and occasionally BluRay discs.

Wanted a bigger screen. Enter OLED... 65" screen size. Sony A80J most probably. Would have preferred A90J.. But it's not yet here in India.

However... after watching FHD content from Amazon Prime and YouTube in the Sony Center showroom ... I'm kind of in doubt if it is a buying choice I will only regret. Of course 4K demo videos look eye-watering. But FHD content looked nowhere close to the clean look that I currently see on my native FHD resolution plasma.

Just wanted to know what is the experience of owners of large screen 4K TV's in this group. Is upscaled FHD content on a 4K TV never going to be as satisfying? Also given that 4k content in OTT is also compressed... Are 4K BluRay's the only source for genuine 4k content with solid bitrates?

Should i just be content with my current TV. Was wondering if there a 65 inch FHD TV .. but max size for FHD TV's in stock seems to be limited to around 43 inches from what I could Google.

Please can you advice.. share your thoughts. Thank you
Pixel density must be high in 42" plasma and so the FHD images are great. In 4k OLED FHD is being upscaled to 4k and the density is artificially filled in by the XR picture processor and so you find a difference. 4k blue ray and gaming consoles are the only current uncompressed content that you can watch worthwhile for your taste. Maybe a harddisk with uncompressed blueray film rips going to many GBs and TBs played by your console or AV receiver or something that passes through 4k content. What is streamed in OTTs can be better looking in OLEDs than most LCDs including the new QLEDs with mini LEDs. That's all. We are in a 4k technology that's partially better than FHD however in 4k contents of recent times they have picture smoothening algorithms which gives you a slightly 3D feel. Tom Cruise though is against this soap opera effect. Some like it that way.
 

sandeepmohan

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I absolutely love my Panasonic 42" V20 plasma. FHD ...1080p. Been more than 10 years. So far ..so good. OTT in HD mostly and occasionally BluRay discs.
Please can you advice.. share your thoughts. Thank you
Reading this line alone makes me wonder if you need a new TV at all.

I've come from a plasma too, a Samsung PS51E550D1R and I can tell that even a basic VA panel equipped TV will look better than your old plasma. All the newer TV's go brighter so you will notice a difference. Pictures may appear more vivid too.

4k is a hit or miss. There are Productions that do a good job with 4K and many that make you wonder what the fuss is all about with 4K, cause a well mastered 2K looks just as good. That said, any new mid to high tier TV you buy today is native 4K so there is no escaping that.

In your case, the only reason you want to upgrade might be due to larger screen estate. It does make a difference.

You don't necessarily need to go oled. Does not sound like your viewing demands are so high to justify oled. There are still some nice lcd led TV's. Stick with those and keep the dough for something else you might fancy.

To end, If you are content with your Plasma, I'd just leave it there.
 

lightgamer

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UHD is a perfect multiple of FHD (3840x2160 v/s 1920x1080), so it has perfect scaling, as one pixel in a 1080p frame can fit in 4 pixels(2x2) of a UHD frame. So there is no inherent technical reason that 1080p content looks worse on a 4k screen than a 1080p as even the basic integer scaling will make the content look exactly the same.

The reasons 1080p content looked worse for you could be:
  • Showrooms have terrible lighting, while you likely have it controlled/darkened at home. Also, picture settings at showrooms tend to be over brightened/oversaturated demo modes which will make the bad resolution of 1080p pop out more.
  • 65" is way too big for 1080p, so the image will break up significantly more than a 40" screen.

I have my old Sony 43" 1080p VA TV from 2013 which I believe cost me over 70k back then (>1 lakh inflation-adjusted) and 1080p content looks no better on it than my U79 when I adjust the lighting and distance from both (you need to sit further from 55" for low res content). In fact, the U79 looks better as it can upscale some of it to 4k, has way better contrast due to FALD and is significantly brighter. I'm sure the A80J looks significantly better than it. The same was the case for my old B7 OLED, 1080p content looked pretty good on it.

Regarding compressed 4k on streaming services, it still has very high fidelity at 15-30 Mbps as the HEVC/AV1 codecs are very efficient. I'd say they will have 95% of details compared to full-fat BluRay files because you can compress a lot more at higher resolutions (lots of neighbouring pixels have the same data).
 

sbg

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  • 65" is way too big for 1080p, so the image will break up significantly more than a 40" screen.

I prefer to defer from this idea. 1080 content looks perfectly good on 65" 4k tvs. I've been using it for the last 5 years for both blue-ray movies ( not 4k ) , Gaming(GTX980 GPU) + Work (since lock-down as an extended monitor).
In fact 1080 works better than 4K for work related content on 65".

4k - streaming content with Dolby vision looked great .

I'm sure if 10 to 20 pixels were of the wrong colour or did not show up from the contents on a fast moving scenes/gaming - I would have hardly notice it.

for people on gaming , 4k content will ONLY be good with latest GPUs / consoles.
 

lightgamer

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I prefer to defer from this idea. 1080 content looks perfectly good on 65" 4k tvs. I've been using it for the last 5 years for both blue-ray movies ( not 4k ) , Gaming(GTX980 GPU) + Work (since lock-down as an extended monitor).
How far do you sit from the TV? My assumptions are from 7 feet from a 65" TV, which would look pretty bad for 1080p, while it is the THX recommended distance for 4k. Obviously, if you sit 10+ feet away from the TV, 4k and 1080p will look pretty much the same as the pixel pitch becomes too small for your eyes to resolve.
In fact 1080 works better than 4K for work related content on 65".
Uh, what? That makes no sense whatsoever. I use a 4k monitor for my work and 1080p monitors look dogshit in comparison. I use 200% scaling in Windows (so everything is the same size as a 1080p monitor, but way sharper).

Text, videos, UI everything looks so much better in 4k compared to 1080p. Especially while programming, sharper text makes everything way nicer in monospace fonts and easier on the eyes. And I can fit a lot more on the screen too since the resolution is so helpful.

I won't even buy a 1440p monitor. And I won't use a 1080p monitor even if someone paid me to do so.
 

Love4sound

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Wanted a bigger screen. Enter OLED... 65" screen size. Sony A80J most probably. Would have preferred A90J.. But it's not yet here in India.

However... after watching FHD content from Amazon Prime and YouTube in the Sony Center showroom ... I'm kind of in doubt if it is a buying choice I will only regret. Of course 4K demo videos look eye-watering. But FHD content looked nowhere close to the clean look that I currently see on my native FHD resolution plasma.

Please can you advice.. share your thoughts. Thank you
Excellent choice with the 65A80J. Don’t Judge a tv by showroom demos. The 4k tvs especially Sony’s do an excellent job with upscaling. Showroom settings will be in vivid or standard which are very bad IMO if you are looking for sharp and accurate image. I was in the same boat when I moved to a 65 inch c9 and had all the questions you had. Many 4k contents are now available on OTT. And no, 4k Blu-ray Discs are not the only source for genuine 4k with solid bitrates
 

sbg

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How far do you sit from the TV? My assumptions are from 7 feet from a 65" TV, which would look pretty bad for 1080p, while it is the THX recommended distance for 4k. Obviously, if you sit 10+ feet away from the TV, 4k and 1080p will look pretty much the same as the pixel pitch becomes too small for your eyes to resolve.

Uh, what? That makes no sense whatsoever. I use a 4k monitor for my work and 1080p monitors look dogshit in comparison. I use 200% scaling in Windows (so everything is the same size as a 1080p monitor, but way sharper).

Text, videos, UI everything looks so much better in 4k compared to 1080p. Especially while programming, sharper text makes everything way nicer in monospace fonts and easier on the eyes. And I can fit a lot more on the screen too since the resolution is so helpful.

I won't even buy a 1440p monitor. And I won't use a 1080p monitor even if someone paid me to do so.

The Below screenshot is at 100% scale. 1080 - may not be as sharp as 1:1 at 4k , but works.

The Viewing distance for WORK : always 5 feet. ( chair is at 6 feet from screen )
yes, I too do a lot programming too,still after so many years.
( screen mode is changed accordingly - brightness at about 45% )

for Gaming : 4 -7 feet depending on the type of game ( RTS : about 4-5 feet, FPS : about 7-8 feet using either KB/M or Controller )
(alternately use between 10 year old 27"Asus or the TV depending on comfort )
Also, that 7.1 surround work perfect in this position - sweet spot. ( including music listening at 7 feet.)
Movies : 7-10 feet ( range depends on mood and content (2k / 4k ) + if my seated on sofa or fully collapsed in sleeping mode :))

Well ,It just makes sense to me , knowing what are my comfort zone are :).

1631687549927.png
 

insane79

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I absolutely love my Panasonic 42" V20 plasma. FHD ...1080p. Been more than 10 years. So far ..so good. OTT in HD mostly and occasionally BluRay discs.

Wanted a bigger screen. Enter OLED... 65" screen size. Sony A80J most probably. Would have preferred A90J.. But it's not yet here in India.

However... after watching FHD content from Amazon Prime and YouTube in the Sony Center showroom ... I'm kind of in doubt if it is a buying choice I will only regret. Of course 4K demo videos look eye-watering. But FHD content looked nowhere close to the clean look that I currently see on my native FHD resolution plasma.

Just wanted to know what is the experience of owners of large screen 4K TV's in this group. Is upscaled FHD content on a 4K TV never going to be as satisfying? Also given that 4k content in OTT is also compressed... Are 4K BluRay's the only source for genuine 4k content with solid bitrates?

Should i just be content with my current TV. Was wondering if there a 65 inch FHD TV .. but max size for FHD TV's in stock seems to be limited to around 43 inches from what I could Google.

Please can you advice.. share your thoughts. Thank you
The A80J is a good tv & has the new XR processor which is getting good reviews everywhere, it will be a good upgrade from your 42" Plasma.
A lot of 4k content is available now & there are talks about 8k content coming from streaming services in the next 2-3 years, this is the correct time to get a 4k tv.

Enjoy.
 

lightgamer

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This is how mine looks:
1631689069742.png
Mine is a proper RGB monitor though(most TVs are BGR which isn't as sharp for text in Windows), 27" at about 2 feet. If I switch to 1440p or 1080p (perfect 2:1 scaling) it looks significantly more blurry.

You should try 3840x2160 on your TV with 200% scaling. Everything will stay the same size but will be significantly sharper. You can just see from my screenshot how much sharper that is.
 

sbg

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This is how mine looks:
View attachment 61984
Mine is a proper RGB monitor though(most TVs are BGR which isn't as sharp for text in Windows), 27" at about 2 feet. If I switch to 1440p or 1080p (perfect 2:1 scaling) it looks significantly more blurry.

You should try 3840x2160 on your TV with 200% scaling. Everything will stay the same size but will be significantly sharper. You can just see from my screenshot how much sharper that is.
Tested these 5 years back - there is sufficient lag in the mouse - more evident when gaming.
I guess that will pull up other questions on mouse polling (Logitech G9 ) - that is set at 1000 ,DPI changes on the fly as needed.
( besides using G602 )
 

jagmarg

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Pixel density must be high in 42" plasma and so the FHD images are great. In 4k OLED FHD is being upscaled to 4k and the density is artificially filled in by the XR picture processor and so you find a difference. 4k blue ray and gaming consoles are the only current uncompressed content that you can watch worthwhile for your taste. Maybe a harddisk with uncompressed blueray film rips going to many GBs and TBs played by your console or AV receiver or something that passes through 4k content. What is streamed in OTTs can be better looking in OLEDs than most LCDs including the new QLEDs with mini LEDs. That's all. We are in a 4k technology that's partially better than FHD however in 4k contents of recent times they have picture smoothening algorithms which gives you a slightly 3D feel. Tom Cruise though is against this soap opera effect. Some like it that way.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
 

jagmarg

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Reading this line alone makes me wonder if you need a new TV at all.

I've come from a plasma too, a Samsung PS51E550D1R and I can tell that even a basic VA panel equipped TV will look better than your old plasma. All the newer TV's go brighter so you will notice a difference. Pictures may appear more vivid too.

4k is a hit or miss. There are Productions that do a good job with 4K and many that make you wonder what the fuss is all about with 4K, cause a well mastered 2K looks just as good. That said, any new mid to high tier TV you buy today is native 4K so there is no escaping that.

In your case, the only reason you want to upgrade might be due to larger screen estate. It does make a difference.

You don't necessarily need to go oled. Does not sound like your viewing demands are so high to justify oled. There are still some nice lcd led TV's. Stick with those and keep the dough for something else you might fancy.

To end, If you are content with your Plasma, I'd just leave it there.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
 

jagmarg

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UHD is a perfect multiple of FHD (3840x2160 v/s 1920x1080), so it has perfect scaling, as one pixel in a 1080p frame can fit in 4 pixels(2x2) of a UHD frame. So there is no inherent technical reason that 1080p content looks worse on a 4k screen than a 1080p as even the basic integer scaling will make the content look exactly the same.

The reasons 1080p content looked worse for you could be:
  • Showrooms have terrible lighting, while you likely have it controlled/darkened at home. Also, picture settings at showrooms tend to be over brightened/oversaturated demo modes which will make the bad resolution of 1080p pop out more.
  • 65" is way too big for 1080p, so the image will break up significantly more than a 40" screen.

I have my old Sony 43" 1080p VA TV from 2013 which I believe cost me over 70k back then (>1 lakh inflation-adjusted) and 1080p content looks no better on it than my U79 when I adjust the lighting and distance from both (you need to sit further from 55" for low res content). In fact, the U79 looks better as it can upscale some of it to 4k, has way better contrast due to FALD and is significantly brighter. I'm sure the A80J looks significantly better than it. The same was the case for my old B7 OLED, 1080p content looked pretty good on it.

Regarding compressed 4k on streaming services, it still has very high fidelity at 15-30 Mbps as the HEVC/AV1 codecs are very efficient. I'd say they will have 95% of details compared to full-fat BluRay files because you can compress a lot more at higher resolutions (lots of neighbouring pixels have the same data).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
 

jagmarg

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Excellent choice with the 65A80J. Don’t Judge a tv by showroom demos. The 4k tvs especially Sony’s do an excellent job with upscaling. Showroom settings will be in vivid or standard which are very bad IMO if you are looking for sharp and accurate image. I was in the same boat when I moved to a 65 inch c9 and had all the questions you had. Many 4k contents are now available on OTT. And no, 4k Blu-ray Discs are not the only source for genuine 4k with solid bitrates
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
 

jagmarg

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looks like so far .. it is in favour of the upgrade .. to 65".

Reg FHD up-scaling - seems like everyone's fine with it. I will do some more auditions in the coming days
 

Donivlapog

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Tbh in this day and age they are trying hard to sell 8k TVs which are still not popular among the masses as the content is not ripe yet. 4k has been in the vogue for a good half decade now and with 8k in the horizon, not many would regret having bought a 4k TV but you may regret buying an outlier FHD TV when the transition to 8k is through. Australia and Singapore have had breakthroughs in wireless internet high clock speeds. They claim 8k content can easily be transmitted at a research and development grade equipment. Soon those things will become a reality and a commercially viable commodity. People have sent rockets(voyager 1,2) to interstellar space that has crossed the solar system and is hurling around as free projectile out of Sun's clutches. If that's possible, you can't rule out 8k technology in short order. So please don't be in denial and subscribe to the current 4k technology.
 
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