Is AV Receiver good for Music ?

[Spinekar]

I think this has been answered quite a few times.
this is my personal experience
speakers i have is a basic Yamaha NS 8390
Stereo Amp - NAD 3020e
AVR - Yamaha RX 571

For music NAD is in a different league, and i can make a clear difference in the feel of the song, it's just so much better, i don't know the terms to define the difference but it's just a huge difference

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I own IA, AVR and even separates.
For me it is always, Separates > IA > AVR.

It does come down to the AVR too, Pioneer VSX 834 was slightly better in terms of Music than the Denon x3700 I have. Marantz SR6013 my friend has is neck and neck with my Denon.

Sure you can tweak things in AVR for music, but then it spoils the movie experience. Some newer AVRs have different Presets so you can choose one for music and other one for movie.

But main differentiator is the soundstage and dynamics which are quite different when it comes to IA vs AVRs. IA with mere 45watts will thrump the AVRs with higher wattage.

One thing which is good about AVRs for music is integrating subwoofers seamlessly. The calibration takes care of everything, crossovers, distance and gain.

Some people like to listen music with bass and a subwoofer, AVRs are very good at it.
Get decent bookshelf speakers and musical sub and any AVR you are done.

IAs or Separates will extract the best out of your speakers, you can get away with use of subwoofer if you have a decent pair of speakers which offer good low end extension.

IAs and Separates will outlive AVRs, AVR has many electronic parts which are used for Video and audio processing and if not maintained well these can go dead. IA or separates have simple layout, they do have electronic parts but these things are hard to kill.

My current chain is:
1) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > NAD 165bee pre amp > O&B Power Amp > QA 3050i
2) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > FX Audio tube-03 tube pre amp > O&B Power Amp > QA 3050i
3) HEOs > Denon x3700 > O&B power amp > QA 3050i
4) LG v30 Plus > O&B power amp > QA 3050i
5) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > NAD 320BEE > Akai sw350

Note: All above guys in YT video are mainly HT guys. They don't know what does Pure Direct do, does it keep the subwoofer on or off. Which is hilarious, that they are concluding AVRs are better.

 

[cmsajith]

Never felt any AVR good for music even I don't prefer a processor for that. The difference was very evident even with an entry level stereo amplifier. Dont just blindly follow those HT fan boys. They don't even have any kind of room treatment except the youthman who add some very recently. He was even not aware that room treatment is critical for good sound. That's the reason they like auro3d upmixing even for 2 channel music, they want sound from everywhere.

 

[raghupb]

<snip>
Further, with my personal experience during audition, two days back, listened to same tracks with both IA and AV Receiver, found music from AV receiver was enjoyable.

Of course with few tweaks in AV, was able to hear considerable differences.

Music was room filling (NOT Sound)
<snip>

Short answer:
Consider yourself lucky that the music presentation appeals to your ears using AVR.
One box will do everything for you in your home.

Long answer (and some questions first):
What IA and AVR were compared?
What speakers?
Was the comparison at dealer setup or your home?

Most folks in this hobby find AVR lacks certain qualities when it comes to music presentation.
Power capacity, dynamics, bass control, imaging, etc.
AVR does have one big advantage over most IAs. Room correction is built in.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[dinesh1201]

A big NO to AVR for music, you won't get that imaging and stereo separation even though you set AVR in stereo mode.

 

[SiR]

I own IA, AVR and even separates.
For me it is always, Separates > IA > AVR.

It does come down to the AVR too, Pioneer VSX 834 was slightly better in terms of Music than the Denon x3700 I have. Marantz SR6013 my friend has is neck and neck with my Denon.

Sure you can tweak things in AVR for music, but then it spoils the movie experience. Some newer AVRs have different Presets so you can choose one for music and other one for movie.

But main differentiator is the soundstage and dynamics which are quite different when it comes to IA vs AVRs. IA with mere 45watts will thrump the AVRs with higher wattage.

One thing which is good about AVRs for music is integrating subwoofers seamlessly. The calibration takes care of everything, crossovers, distance and gain.

Some people like to listen music with bass and a subwoofer, AVRs are very good at it.
Get decent bookshelf speakers and musical sub and any AVR you are done.

IAs or Separates will extract the best out of your speakers, you can get away with use of subwoofer if you have a decent pair of speakers which offer good low end extension.

IAs and Separates will outlive AVRs, AVR has many electronic parts which are used for Video and audio processing and if not maintained well these can go dead. IA or separates have simple layout, they do have electronic parts but these things are hard to kill.

My current chain is:
1) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > NAD 165bee pre amp > O&B Power Amp > QA 3050i
2) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > FX Audio tube-03 tube pre amp > O&B Power Amp > QA 3050i
3) HEOs > Denon x3700 > O&B power amp > QA 3050i
4) LG v30 Plus > O&B power amp > QA 3050i
5) Roon > RPI IQaudio DAC > NAD 320BEE > Akai sw350

Note: All above guys in YT video are mainly HT guys. They don't know what does Pure Direct do, does it keep the subwoofer on or off. Which is hilarious, that they are concluding AVRs are better.

{ One thing which is good about AVRs for music is integrating subwoofers seamlessly. The calibration takes care of everything, crossovers, distance and gain.

Some people like to listen music with bass and a subwoofer, AVRs are very good at it.
Get decent bookshelf speakers and musical sub and any AVR you are done. ]



This difference I experienced during Audition, with the Subwoofer, it was a pleasant to hear the tracks [ Black Light Syndrome ] with AVR.

The same Track with IA [ Arcam ] was not sounding good {again depends on the kind of music }


Of course AVR [ Denon ] was calibrated, which had a huge difference in the music listening, which was really good if not super !!!

 

[SiR]

Short answer:
Consider yourself lucky that the music presentation appeals to your ears using AVR.
One box will do everything for you in your home.

Long answer (and some questions first):
What IA and AVR were compared?
What speakers?
Was the comparison at dealer setup or your home?

Most folks in this hobby find AVR lacks certain qualities when it comes to music presentation.
Power capacity, dynamics, bass control, imaging, etc.
AVR does have one big advantage over most IAs. Room correction is built in.

Cheers,
Raghu

IA - Arcam - A 19
AV - Denon X1600
Speakers - Wharfedale D320,
Subwoofer - Dual Subwoofer [Sealed]

It was done at the dealer place but without major room acoustic treatment.

Tracks - Black Light Syndrome, Hotel California

 

[SiR]

A big NO to AVR for music, you won't get that imaging and stereo separation even though you set AVR in stereo mode.

Welcome your input Dinesh

Imaging and Stereo separation was really good with that AVR setup

Every instrument was spot on and clear vocals

The Bass from the Sub was not deep, was neutral, which enhanced the music listening

Of course, AVR was calibrated

With the Arcam IA, it was not that satisfactory

I'm not an Audiophile, but my ears felt the difference

This is my first audition, where I got the chance of having both IA and AVR setup, playing the same track with the same set of speakers ( Duende - Black Light Syndrome, Hotel California ]

Regards

 

[amrutmhatre90]

This is what most new to this hobby focks prefer now a days, the bass from subwoofer is smooth and the higher frequencies can be handled by the speaker.

I even had thought of raising this question over a thread. Can AVR be a good competition to 2ch Music?

Here are my few thoughts,
Price wise: IA with speakers will be very affordable than the AVR.

Most people who love music, get decent IA and Speakers and you can be done within 50k. Heck if you go used route this can be done within 25-30k.
If you go AVR route, the AVR alone now costs upwards of 50k, then the speakers and subwoofer.

A friend of mine, loved the way I demoed QA3020i with QB12 on my Denon x3700 that he found it better than running only QA3050i without subwoofer. This was mainly due to the addition of a subwoofer and he liked the bass. QB12 is the best subwoofer for music one can get under 50k.

I also do feel if people use subs in their 2ch systems, give AVR a try.

Few questions @SiR were you sitted in the MLP or standing when both IA and AVR were playing?

I am asking this cause I the soundstage, imaging and dynamics I feel different when I do this on my setup, AVR lacks few things which my separates do and it is quite evident

But one needs keen ears to pin point these differences, to avg joe AVR might be a better due to the subwoofer integration alone.

 

[ssf]

I listen to music on my AVR. I have no complaints. I listen to music on my AVR using Auro 3D upmixer. I have no complaints. I will get back to this further down in the thread.

Take an AVR like SR 7013 which HIFIMart lists at 2,39,900.00 Am sure they will be able to give one a better price than that if taken up. But for the discussion, lets assume that it is 2,39,900.00 for 9 channels of amplification with all the other gizmos.

So, if I am using two channels in pure direct, then this becomes an amp costing 53,311.00. Assuming that only 50% of the cost goes into amplification and the rest into all the gizmos, then this becomes a two channel amp costing 26,655.00. Now, if you compare this to a stereo amp costing 26,665, then one should not see much of a difference.

For 26,655.00 for two channels, the SR 7013 plays music beautifully. For it's full price, it offers great features like room correction, crossovers etc. So yes, a receiver is good for two channel music.

Auro 3D upmixer, unlike DTS-X does not bring up music from all over the place. It still plays as two channel but with subtle surround effects that give the music a wider soundstage and is useful especially in typical home setups which are not ideally placed which in stereo would not have a good soundstage to speak of. It's integration with the sub is an additional plus.

Edit: In my setup, my Marantz SR 7010 is setup with L/R Bypass. This makes the receiver bring out the best sound for two channel listening with stereo or Auro 3d mode.

 

[SiR]

This is what most new to this hobby focks prefer now a days, the bass from subwoofer is smooth and the higher frequencies can be handled by the speaker.

I even had thought of raising this question over a thread. Can AVR be a good competition to 2ch Music?

Here are my few thoughts,
Price wise: IA with speakers will be very affordable than the AVR.

Most people who love music, get decent IA and Speakers and you can be done within 50k. Heck if you go used route this can be done within 25-30k.
If you go AVR route, the AVR alone now costs upwards of 50k, then the speakers and subwoofer.

A friend of mine, loved the way I demoed QA3020i with QB12 on my Denon x3700 that he found it better than running only QA3050i without subwoofer. This was mainly due to the addition of a subwoofer and he liked the bass. QB12 is the best subwoofer for music one can get under 50k.

I also do feel if people use subs in their 2ch systems, give AVR a try.

Few questions @SiR were you sitted in the MLP or standing when both IA and AVR were playing?

I am asking this cause I the soundstage, imaging and dynamics I feel different when I do this on my setup, AVR lacks few things which my separates do and it is quite evident

But one needs keen ears to pin point these differences, to avg joe AVR might be a better due to the subwoofer integration alone.

[ I even had thought of raising this question over a thread. Can AVR be a good competition to 2ch Music? ]

This is running in my mind for long and yet to get a solid answer !!


Few questions @SiR were you sitted in the MLP or standing when both IA and AVR were playing?

Audition was done in a Dealer place, with good seating position, (MLP ) when both were playing.

Actually, the Dealer was stating that AVR too can be good for music equally to an IA [Low budget IA] with proper calibration, right speakers

His statement was that, only high end IA can make a big difference, where a good AVR [ Denon x3700 onwards, Marantz SR5015 ] can give a budget IA, run for their money. Even he stopped prescribing budget IA for music listening, when an good AVR can do the same for music plus satisfy HT needs too



But one needs keen ears to pin point these differences, to avg joe AVR might be a better due to the subwoofer integration alone.

It was evident, when a Sub was used and same track when played without a Sub

When the Sub was used, the output from the LR speakers was fine or clear.

 

[cmsajith]

The new gen HT enthusiasts think everything can be corrected using a DSP room correction and thats it. A DSP fied sound feels like a DSP fied sound, can be clearly felt esp when we listen to music. No room correction software can replicate a proper room treatment. So personally I never prefer any kind of manipulation on sound, less is better even for movies.

I did the test long back in 2009 or 10 using a Nakamichi entry level amplifier RE10 and an Onkyo AVR paired with Quad 22L2 tower speakers. The difference was very evident even in Direct mode. Even I preferred the stereo amp than my Emotiva processor. I use subwoofer too for music, but crossed near the speaker's natural roll off with a slight overlapping, never had an issue in integrating.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

I had picked up this NAD 320BEE IA which was bought in 2005 by uncle, he gave me for zero cost, and it smoked my Denon x3700. I was blown away how good it made my speakers sound.

AVRs produce a lot of heat, even though I have added a cooling fan I don't use the AVR for long listening sessions like my IAs or Separates which barely get hot. My long listening sessions are of 4_5 hours.

Your dealer can be right, but some dealers try to push products which are highly profitable to them, AVRs are generating huge profits for them now due to higher cost due to covid.

Few pros of IA
Cheaper to start of
Easy to operate and maintain
Outlast a decade and wouldn't die
Dynamics, soundstage, imaging are superb.

Cons of IA
Difficult to get subwoofer integration right
Not all IAs have subwoofer output
Need to get good speakers to get the best out of the amp
Lacks room correction or calibration

Few pros of AVR
Room correction and calibration
All in one box for Audio and Video
Some AVRs come with networking capabilities
Any speaker or subwoofer can sound good if calibrated properly.

Cons of AVR
Expensive to start of
Needs proper care, one false move can make parts kaput.

There maybe other things, but these are what I think of.
People who have budget of AVR and love music but also prefer music can just get one and be happy.
Someone who is tight on budget can get the IA and still get fruitful rewards.

I feel it is matter of taste and convenience, vegetarian food vs non vegetarian food.
Well I prefer and enjoy both

 

[ssf]

A DSP fied sound feels like a DSP fied sound, can be clearly felt esp when we listen to music.

Agree. This is the reason why I am using a L/R bypass for Stereo and Auro 3D.

I use subwoofer for music too, but crossed near the speaker's natural roll off with a slight overlapping, never had an issue in integrating.

I have used this method too in my Tidal - Roon -> iFi Zen Dac -> FX Audio Tube Pre -> Crown XLS 2502. No issues with integration. Speaker level connections to the sub. Additional advantage I see with an AVR is the variable crossover setting. I have mine set to 80 Hz for my Quad S2's. Works well.

 

[Love4sound]

I use my avr for music and more then happy with it. I am a pure HT guy and don’t expect much from music. I have listened to few dedicated stereo systems and its way better then avr for sure. A 50-60k IA will be better then an avr that costs 1-1.5L AVR for stereo.Stereo amp or IA being better then avr for music is not even debatable but what matters most is how much improvements you need in your music listening. So for many like me a good avr in the HT room will be good enough for occasional stereo listening. For audiophiles it’s not even a debate.

 

[ssf]

For audiophiles it’s not even a debate.

Agree. Members asking if AVR can be used for music are not audiophiles. Telling them that an AVR cannot be or should not be used for music in my opinion could be avoided.

 

[Bloom@83]

Friends, hope the above one will clear the doubt about using an AV Receiver for Music.

Further, with my personal experience during audition, two days back, listened to same tracks with both IA and AV Receiver, found music from AV receiver was enjoyable.

Of course with few tweaks in AV, was able to hear considerable differences.

Music was room filling (NOT Sound)

Before, I was confused whether to go for IA or AV for music, though yet not decided on it.

If anyone have experienced the same, pls give your inputs.

Regards

Most YouTube reviewers would say anything to increase subscribers and promote certain products / brands. If your use case is 80% movies and rest music , sure , go ahead with a AVR of your budget.

However if you found a particular AVR better for music compared to a IA in the exact same setup ,something was just not right in the setup OR the AVR was 3-4 times more expensive than the IA.

 

[Love4sound]

Agree. Members asking if AVR can be used for music are not audiophiles. Telling them that an AVR cannot be or should not be used for music in my opinion could be avoided.

Yeah I am not saying don’t use avr for music. In fact for movies if the music performance by a particular avr is bad then the movie experience also will be bad. Even for good movie experience in a HT set up the avr has to perform good for music.Most action sequences that we enjoy in a movie have fantastic BGM which I love and enjoy a lot. Stereo is totally different and audiophiles have different expectations.

 

[ssf]

In fact for movies if the music performance by a particular avr is bad then the movie experience also will be bad.

Well said.

The guys in the video are not using entry level AVRs.

 

[reubensm]

I think its a trick question. Folks like myself have been around from the early days when there were no AVRs and are so used to 2-channel stereo. However if i have to take an impartial view, I think it would depend on 2 factors - (1) the source and (2) listening preferences. If you are using analog sources like turntables and tape decks, the preamp sections of AVRs have their limitations with handling these (they aren't designed for these anyways) and hence you are likely to get thin sound with a lot of the dynamics missing. Its a lot different if one is using a digital source through. There are some who try to recreate the home movie experience when listening to music (not the special effects but more to do with the sound signature) and AVRs would be good enough for them. If you really have to use a AVR for analog sources, I recommend using a component preamplifier with the right input impedances and equalization for your analog sources, and let if feed your AVR for better sound dynamics.