Is the Audyssey app better than the one built in on the AVR?

[spirovious]

I guess when crossover is set to 80hzs, all below 80hzs from fronts will go to Subwoofer even if set as "Large". One can listen carefully while changing crossover keeping fronts as large while movie is played, he can certainly hear change in sound(say from 60 to 80hzs).

Update-The change l could hear is from Center,Surrounds.My guess was wrong

 

[Nagaraj S]

you set them to small with a cutoff of say 80 (and in parallel setting LFE cutover to 80), everything from 20-80 will go to sub and 80 onwards to FL/FR

Should the L&R and the LFE cutoff must be and exactly be the same? The dedicated LFE channel has a default (and I think an industry standard) 120 Hz. I have left the LFE XO at the default 120 Hz, and I never touch it. Setting the L&R to “small” with 80 Hz XO would send the chunk of movie bass content to the sub. I was hoping that would sound better, but surprisingly sounds lean. My L&R’s lower XO is 30 Hz with an 8” woofer and an 8” passive radiator. Perhaps this is emphasizing the bass with the setting “Large”.

 

[OM_2K19]

Should the L&R and the LFE cutoff must be and exactly be the same? The dedicated LFE channel has a default (and I think an industry standard) 120 Hz. I have left the LFE XO at the default 120 Hz, and I never touch it. Setting the L&R to “small” with 80 Hz XO would send the chunk of movie bass content to the sub. I was hoping that would sound better, but surprisingly sounds lean. My L&R’s lower XO is 30 Hz with an 8” woofer and an 8” passive radiator. Perhaps this is emphasizing the bass with the setting “Large”.

When you set the L/R as Large, AVR won't route the Low-Frequency Signals to Subwoofer. If you set them as Small, AVR won't route anything lower than the Cut-Off value to L/R but Subwoofer. On the other hand, for LFE, since it's a dedicated channel (independent of L/R), AVR won't route anything above the Cut-Off value to Subwoofer. Now, should they be equal? - Depends; you have to try out various combinations; there is no hard & fast rule for this.

 

[Love4sound]

When you set the L/R as Large, AVR won't route the Low-Frequency Signals to Subwoofer. If you set them as Small, AVR won't route anything lower than the Cut-Off value to L/R but Subwoofer. On the other hand, for LFE, since it's a dedicated channel (independent of L/R), AVR won't route anything above the Cut-Off value to Subwoofer. Now, should they be equal? - Depends; you have to try out various combinations; there is no hard & fast rule for this.

As far as I know when you have enabled the subwoofer and set the front as large the avr will send the LFE signals to both the subwoofer and fronts. Only when the sub is disabled in the avr speaker settings the LFE signals is sent to the mains and when you disable the sub the avr automatically sets the fronts as large.

 

[OM_2K19]

As far as I know when you have enabled the subwoofer and set the front as large the avr will send the LFE signals to both the subwoofer and fronts. Only when the sub is disabled in the avr speaker settings the LFE signals is sent to the mains and when you disable the sub the avr automatically sets the fronts as large.

I believe this is true if you have the LFE+Mains/Double Bass enabled...

 

[Love4sound]

I believe this is true if you have the LFE+Mains/Double Bass enabled...

LFE+mains means the LFE channel will also play signal from mains. This is my understanding. I am not home so can’t check and verify. If you use a Denon or marantz avr you can check and confirm. I remember verifying what I stated above but just to be sure I’ll cross check later when I get back home

 

[OM_2K19]

LFE+mains means the LFE channel will also play signal from mains. This is my understanding. I am not home so can’t check and verify. If you use a Denon or marantz avr you can check and confirm. I remember verifying what I stated above but just to be sure I’ll cross check later when I get back home

Cool, I will take a look and confirm... Enjoy your timeoff...

 

[liverpool_for_life]

I was hoping that would sound better, but surprisingly sounds lean.

It is highly likely that you have phase integration issues around the crossover region between your mains and sub in this case. I recommend measuring using UMIK and REW. If not, you'll have to adjust the subwoofer distance 1 ft at a time and listen by ear for when the sound is no longer lean.

 

[ssf]

LFE - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is not sent to the mains if the mains are set to small.

LFE + Mains - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is sent to the mains if the mains are set to large.
(Full range signal)

LFE with speakers set to large - No frequency below crossover sent to sub. Mains will get full range signal. .1 signal upto 120 Hz will be sent to the sub.

The LFE signal is upto 120 Hz. In most cases, this should not be changed. (LPF for LFE)

https://www.homecinemaguru.com/confusing-lfe-of-lpf-with-bass-management/


https://support.denon.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/277/~/lfe---modes

 

[OM_2K19]

LFE - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is not sent to the mains if the mains are set to small.

LFE + Mains - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is sent to the mains if the mains are set to large.
(Full range signal)

LFE with speakers set to large - No frequency below crossover sent to sub. Mains will get full range signal. .1 signal upto 120 Hz will be sent to the sub.

The LFE signal is upto 120 Hz. In most cases, this should not be changed. (LPF for LFE)

https://www.homecinemaguru.com/confusing-lfe-of-lpf-with-bass-management/


https://support.denon.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/277/~/lfe---modes

Great summary, thanks.

 

[superczar]

Should the L&R and the LFE cutoff must be and exactly be the same? The dedicated LFE channel has a default (and I think an industry standard) 120 Hz. I have left the LFE XO at the default 120 Hz, and I never touch it. Setting the L&R to “small” with 80 Hz XO would send the chunk of movie bass content to the sub. I was hoping that would sound better, but surprisingly sounds lean. My L&R’s lower XO is 30 Hz with an 8” woofer and an 8” passive radiator. Perhaps this is emphasizing the bass with the setting “Large”.

They do not need to be the same but at least in theory, the best way to set them up would be (as many FMs have already pointed out)
- Mains as small with cut off set at a reasonable value (say 80 .. can be lower if mains speakers and AVR are very capable)
- LFX XO on sub set at the same value so that there is no overlap ...

Worth keeping in mind that lower frequencies are what tax the AVR amp the most so doing this leaves your AVR with enough headroom to handle the non bass frequencies while leaving the dirty job for the dedicated subwoofer amp

once this is done, I would run audyssey again, calculate curve with LR correction cutoff set to 500 or so (or LCR , if center is also a good speaker) and hopefully leave it at that.
At least in theory, this should yield the best results but - If the bass appears lean (or if you prefer a little extra oomph) , I would then manually bump up the subwoofer vol/gain by 2-3 notches to compensate..
Hope this helps!

 

[bombayduck]

The greatest, most comprehensive resource on Audyssey is perhaps this one:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-audyssey-thread-part-ii.2376770/#post-52664721

also FYI, I’m quite happy with the results I got from the built-in Audyssey calibration (after many attempts and resisting the urge to smash my Denon X4700H AVR with a large hammer ).

At a later stage, I tried the IOS app and found that my existing calibration sounded better to my ears so I am sticking to it for now. One day, when i have enough time and there’s nobody home at night, I will experiment with the app again

 

[gurujee]

LFE - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is not sent to the mains if the mains are set to small.

LFE + Mains - Low frequency effects (the .1 is sent to the sub) along with the frequency below the crossover. Frequency below the crossover is sent to the mains if the mains are set to large.
(Full range signal)

LFE with speakers set to large - No frequency below crossover sent to sub. Mains will get full range signal. .1 signal upto 120 Hz will be sent to the sub.

The LFE signal is upto 120 Hz. In most cases, this should not be changed. (LPF for LFE)

https://www.homecinemaguru.com/confusing-lfe-of-lpf-with-bass-management/


https://support.denon.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/277/~/lfe---modes

Thank you for this great summary.
One doubt of me is what is the role of crossover setting of the front speakers in this scenario

 

[Love4sound]

To summarise it further let me explain my understanding. In Denon and marantz you have subwoofer mode settings. Under those settings you can set the cross over, select LFE or LFE+main. So the subwoofer mode is nothing but telling the avr what to do with the subwoofer 1 and 2 pre-outs. So when you set it to LFE it plays only the .1 recording. When you set it to LFE+main you are telling the avr to send .1 plus the mains signal to the sub 1 and 2 pre outs. Crossover is left to default 120 so beyond 120 signals are not sent to the sub pre-outs by the avr

 

[ssf]

Thank you for this great summary.
One doubt of me is what is the role of crossover setting of the front speakers in this scenario

I have not fully understood the question but let me try to answer anyway.

First let's take the LFE. This is the dedicated .1 channel currently used in movies. This is a separate channel and this is not to be confused with crossovers for bass management. There is content in this channel upto 120 hz. If you set this to 80 for example, the range from 81 to 120 is not directed to any other channel and this information is lost. So it is best left at 120 Hz.


Bass Management.

This involves setting of crossovers in the avr which then decides what frequency range to send to the speakers and what to send to the sub. THX recommends 80 Hz and this is a good place to start. A lot also depends on the frequency range of your speakers. If you speakers go below 80 Hz then set it to 80 and then lower it to your liking. Setting it higher than 80 will make your sub localized and that is to be avoided unless your other speakers are satellites which don't do as low as 80 Hz.

When setting crossovers, make sure to defeat the crossovers at the sub if the function is available and if not, set it to its highest

Hope this helps.