Looking for a Power Conditoner
- Thread starter indusinkc
- Start date
panditji
Well-Known Member
If you have to start building your audio system with a power conditioner, you need to decide on the colour first based on the room decor and then decide on the number of electric plug points based on the amount of electricity you plan on using for audio... The speakers, amplifiers and source comes later once you are able to finalise the power conditioner first...
You can check out Rontek. A number of members are using this and can provide their feedback on it. I am also planning to pick on their models in the coming months.
Rontek Power Management System
MaSh
IndianEars
Well-Known Member
I presume that entire post is tongue-in-cheek?
What am I missing? ..... below are specs from the manufacturers website for both Rontek and Niagara 1200.. while Niagara claims to be doing something...Rontek on the other hand comes across as an expensive surge protector, there are no specs for ac filtering?
you are paying monies for ?
panditji
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not sir.. I mean every word of it.. Why would you doubt my intention sir? I am simply trying to help the OP who wants to buy a power conditioner first before deciding on the rest of the system.. We all have different choices and priorities...
Thats Interesting specs for the Niagara. I see below for the Rontek AviRON-HT
MaSh
IndianEars
Well-Known Member
Hi SSheri,
You are at a very interesting & exciting stage of your Hi Fi journey... Starting with a clean slate & buying.
The term "Power Conditioner" is probably not very well defined, and can mean different things to different people. I am listing below some functions of Power Conditioners that readily come to mind (the list is probably not complete, and Im sure others can supplement the list). An actual power conditioner may provide one or multiple of these functions.
1. Maintaining Mains Voltage within a specified range.
Such units are often called Voltage Stabilisers, and they maintain a reasonably constant output voltage, even if the mains voltage fluctuates widely.
2. Spike or Surge Suppressors
The mains supply sometimes carries Very Large but Very brief (much less that 1 second duration) Voltage surges. These can damage expensive equipment such as the CD Player, Streamer, DAC, Pre amp / Power Amp or integrated amp. Spike or Surge suppressors are usually a set of passive components connected within a power strip / "Extension Board."
3. NOISE & RF FILTERS
As their name suggests, they only filter out RF & other noise that maybe present on the mains supply. Here again, Passive components are often used, though there are active noise filters too that incorporate electronics to detect and filter out RF & other noise.
You need to take a call on which of these 3 functions you want. You may need to buy a Voltage Stabiliser AND Noise + RF Filter.
Item 1 - Voltage Stabilisers are manufactured to handle loads upto or below their rated power, eg 200 Watts. You need select a suitable unit only AFTER you have bought all your electronics and know their total power consumption.
The Spike / Surge Suppressors need to be selected AFTER you have bought & therefore know the total number of electronic components in your system, that you plan to connect via the Spike Suppressor.
Ditto For RF & Noise Filters.
The Voltage Stabiliser may be absolutely essential in some Indian cities, where the mains voltage fluctuates widely and frequently.
Spike & Surge suppressors are certainly desirable but may not be considered essential, by some.
RF & NOISE filters may improve the performance / sound of your setup, but are not essential to safe functioning of your HiFi Set up.
Hence, my suggestion that you first prioritise what exactly you want your Power Conditioner to do.
You should buy your other components, THEN buy & connect the Power Conditioner, before switching on your system.
I do hope you find the correct colour too, but I would prioritise the electrical performance in my purchase decision. Ofcourse, we all have our own priorities.
You may also reach out to Soundfoundations - they can guide you. No affiliation - just suggesting based on buying a few things from SF
Thank you Panditji, what a nice way to feel welcomed for my first post, into this wonderful society of exceptional people here on the forum.
Thank you
Thank you, I appreciate your help!
This came up in my search besides Furrman Elite that had been recommended.
Thank you, I will definitely look into it.
I appreciate that even though you may not have a particular recommendation, you’ve taken your precious time to atleast guide me to find my way
IndianEars, Thanks you so much for your valuable feedback and taking time to list out various functions that will aid me in understanding. I appreciate it very much.
I currently use Todd Systems step down Transformers for my entire house of all big/small appliances, computers, printers, all electronics including AV , as we relocated from US about 11 years ago. Hoping by stepping down to 110V, I’ve been thinking that I’ve been taking out the Devil in AC Power, but I could be wrong. Luckily all things are working as they should be with an exception of 3 of my AV receivers that died, The Sony ES and Harmon Kardon, I couldn’t save but the oldest one I have, a Yamaha, I was able to get it repaired with some ICs that I bought from US. I stopped buying any electronics though I have an itch to upgrade my AV to Atmos. I just have a 5.1 that I’ve been using over 15 years, Klipsh floorstanders with a Velodyne Sub.
The house we remodeled, and existing/new wiring is a mess which I can’t seem to get out of no matter how hard I try with local electricians. An electrical engineers visit is pending.
Once the engineer visits, checks everything and recommends a servo stabiliser, I plan to get one installed.
With that being said, I am at a cross roads trying to figure out if I should go the “separates’ way or start with a pair of KEF LS50 Wirelss II, to start listening right away. I’m currently listening to HiRes from my computer via DragonFly Red, using an AV receiver in PureDirect stereo mode driving my 26 year 3-way ported floorstanders. I also use Sony PSHX500 HiRes Vinyl Turntable and portable Sony HiRes player sometimes as a source. The sound is just basic but I’m smitten by my friend’s Linn setup.
But before I did anything else, I thought I’d get a Power conditioner, that will help in anyway it can, while feeding clean power and also help filter out the noise. I’ve read a great deal about how power conditioners help with overall fidelity in the HiFi setup. I didn’t want to hook up anything new to my Devilish AC power and kill them voiding the warranty.
There is so much information on this forum already about streamers, DACs, 2-Channel amps, speakers and I also short listed few items in my price range, if I should go that route. And I need to audition everything before buying and Power Conditioners I don’t need to as awesome people such as yourself can guide in a nice technical way.
So, since I didn’t have much information on Power Conditioners, so I thought I’d ask in my first post here.
Also they don’t talk a lot about color coordination and decor here on the forum, but I’m not directionless and don’t need to come here to seek- as I’ve been an architect for about 34 years- running a successful practice and my 12 year old decides the Colors in the house
liverpool_for_life
Well-Known Member
My speaker manufacturer recommended the Furman line with series mode protection, so I ended up with one of the 16A and a pair of the 10 A classic series.
16A Power Conditioner with Lights, Volt/Ammeter, 220V-240V Export | Furman Power
Pwr Cond 16A/Lights/ W/SMP Digital Vm/Am (240V)
furmanpower.com
10A Power Conditioner w/Lights, 230V | Furman Power
The Classic Series from Furman brings together superior protection and outstanding performance in a sturdy, rack-mountable design.
furmanpower.com
I wish I had done this sooner, but better late than never. I was not expecting any differences in SQ, but I did get a significant uptick in clarity and a noticeable improvement in imaging (most audible across my front stage).
It does look like advertised prices from the Indian distributor for Furman (https://www.reynoldonline.com/) are up more than 20% from when I purchased last October. I was told prices were going up for their next batch of stock when I bought, so I got somewhat fortuitous with my timing. HST, I did feel that pricing was high then and I dithered for a while before I ponied up. Any remorse I might have had vanished within a few days of having them installed.
Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.
Yelamanchili manohar
Well-Known Member
Now I can understand why you wanted a power conditioner
As already discussed above, there are lots of varieties at different price points. What they do and their power capacity are 2 deciding factors. There are loads of Hyderabad members here using, double conversion ups with great results. I starred with CVT + isolation transformer, but finally moved to a power regenerator. These are not easy to find in india, so an online ups is the next best option. If you need multiple power outlets, then you can add power conditioners or filters after the online ups. A lot of local folks are using innovation audio V2 conditioners at end of servo stabilisers or online double conversion ups, with stellar results. But understand that they are no longer making or selling those. I was previously using a isotek evo3 polaris with decent improvements. So if you want to explore this option then there should be similar options from audioquest, isotek and shunyata.
But I would really recommend getting rid of that step down transformer, as it is just a copper winding without any thermal or overload protection. I was once using a similar step down to power my first gen xbox which I got from the USA in maybe 2003. That thing went off burning the power board of the xbox. So it is a safety hazard for both the electronics and our beloved families.
Now coming to the point, maybe you first have to decide if you want to go with separates or with all-in-one systems like the kef ls50 wireless II. If you are a not a tweaker, and just want great quality music playback then the kef is one great option. If the room is very big, then you can consider adding one or two kef R400B subs. Though the new KC62 sub has been designed ground up to compliment the new wireless speakers. I have heard the kef wireless I with a single R400B sub, and liked it a lot. It is a proper hifi system, that can go toe-to-toe with a lot of good systems comprising separates.
However, if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole, and keep tweaking then there is a whole world of separates out there. ( not to mention exotic cables too
)So you have to decide which way you want to go now. The kef system with twin subs should need a 2kva capacity at max. If you want to go separates, then going upto 5kva should give a degree of future proofing.
So below are the options :
1. Highest price + 2 yearly maintenance + battery renewals - double conversion ups - best quality power + best protection.
2. Moderate price + minimal maintenance- servo stabiliser- good protection + no improvement in quality of power.
3. Power conditioner at the end of either of the above - we don't need a power conditioner with option no.1, provided the power extension board is star wired.
I've heard that vertex is giving good quality stuff and very good maintenance services too. Iam adding @drkrack and @thedude to this conversation. ( both from hyderabad, and both with extensive power research phd's
)All the best
P.S : we lot here are a friendly bunch. And naughty at times
Just that your first message sounded like " the new kid on the block", aiming in the wrong direction on his very first draw
So we had some harmless fun at your expense. Fondly hope you understand
sud98
Well-Known Member
On top of YM's suggestions, please use a dedicated online UPS and design for a space outside the room(ideally house) to keep the same as they are super noisy. Dont use the line or UPS that goes to your music/ht room for anything else as it could affect performance. Use good quality power cables and sockets and enough of them to avoid using surge protectors or any additional filters.
Once these are done and you still want to improve power, look at power conditioners (Rontek, Monarch...)
Once these are done and you still want to improve power, look at power conditioners (Rontek, Monarch...)
Now I can understand why you wanted a power conditioner
As already discussed above, there are lots of varieties at different price points. What they do and their power capacity are 2 deciding factors. There are loads of Hyderabad members here using, double conversion ups with great results. I starred with CVT + isolation transformer, but finally moved to a power regenerator. These are not easy to find in india, so an online ups is the next best option. If you need multiple power outlets, then you can add power conditioners or filters after the online ups. A lot of local folks are using innovation audio V2 conditioners at end of servo stabilisers or online double conversion ups, with stellar results. But understand that they are no longer making or selling those. I was previously using a isotek evo3 polaris with decent improvements. So if you want to explore this option then there should be similar options from audioquest, isotek and shunyata.
But I would really recommend getting rid of that step down transformer, as it is just a copper winding without any thermal or overload protection. I was once using a similar step down to power my first gen xbox which I got from the USA in maybe 2003. That thing went off burning the power board of the xbox. So it is a safety hazard for both the electronics and our beloved families.
Now coming to the point, maybe you first have to decide if you want to go with separates or with all-in-one systems like the kef ls50 wireless II. If you are a not a tweaker, and just want great quality music playback then the kef is one great option. If the room is very big, then you can consider adding one or two kef R400B subs. Though the new KC62 sub has been designed ground up to compliment the new wireless speakers. I have heard the kef wireless I with a single R400B sub, and liked it a lot. It is a proper hifi system, that can go toe-to-toe with a lot of good systems comprising separates.
However, if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole, and keep tweaking then there is a whole world of separates out there. ( not to mention exotic cables too
So you have to decide which way you want to go now. The kef system with twin subs should need a 2kva capacity at max. If you want to go separates, then going upto 5kva should give a degree of future proofing.
So below are the options :
1. Highest price + 2 yearly maintenance + battery renewals - double conversion ups - best quality power + best protection.
2. Moderate price + minimal maintenance- servo stabiliser- good protection + no improvement in quality of power.
3. Power conditioner at the end of either of the above - we don't need a power conditioner with option no.1, provided the power extension board is star wired.
I've heard that vertex is giving good quality stuff and very good maintenance services too. Iam adding @drkrack and @thedude to this conversation. ( both from hyderabad, and both with extensive power research phd's
All the best
P.S : we lot here are a friendly bunch. And naughty at times
Just that your first message sounded like " the new kid on the block", aiming in the wrong direction on his very first draw
So we had some harmless fun at your expense. Fondly hope you understand
@Yelamanchili manohar I actually went with Kala Power Servo for a few reasons. K-Power came highly recommended from @Nikhili & @drkrack …..I wasn’t even remotely convinced on Vertex dealer’s reasoning why Vertex “audio” models cost exactly twice as much!!…..K-Power is Hyderabad based. Also, K-Power owner turned out to be friendly and transparent.
K-Power is also an OEM for Amararaja (a very good company). The servo I got was “Hima Power” branded, which is a division of Amararaja.
As far as the changes to the SQ…I’m noticing a smoother and more natural tone. Also, overall consistency has improved a bit. And my power amps run a tad bit cooler. Pretty satisfied with the spend.
I think Invention Audio is coming up with a V3 conditioner. But its sales might be limited to their HT installations considering the controversy some folks here have created around it
Agreed that the OP did not provide enough information in his/her first post. But, FMs looking to genuinely assist could have made enquiries with the OP.
Sarcasm and ridicule should never be the first approach, especially with a novice, it's just discouraging and unpleasant.
@indusinkc i hope you find what you're looking for. This is a forum of wonderful members who are more than eager. Happy listening!
Sarcasm and ridicule should never be the first approach, especially with a novice, it's just discouraging and unpleasant.
@indusinkc i hope you find what you're looking for. This is a forum of wonderful members who are more than eager. Happy listening!
@indusinkc
Here is my take on the power supply side of the game.
1. A suitable UPS (online of offline usually for single phase circuit)
- power supply from electricity board can cut off at any time; hard fact
- even if you are in an society where there is DG backup, this takes anywhere between 10-60 secs to come on
- a sine wave UPS is desired
- online UPS do AC --> DC --> charge battery --> DC --> AC cycle (generally noisy; host them away from TV/audio gear)
- offline UPS do AC --> charge battery + passthru on mains and battery out --> AC on standby (less noisy)
- if the UPS output can provide some voltage stabilization it is a bonus
2. A voltage stabilizer (for single phase circuit or specifically for AV gear if hosted, say only living room)
- choose something that would correct voltage over a fairly large swing, say 180-270V
- if output is programmable, set it to 230V/50Hz
- servo stabilizers do make some noise when correcting voltage; if you can live with this temporary inconvenience place it near AV gear
3. Surge protectors + multi socket outlets
- this has nothing to do with voltage fluctuations
- if there is a surge then electronics will fry; could happen when mains supply comes on after an outage
- surge protector fuse will cut out protecting your electronics
- multiple outlets are convenient to connect devices in play
4. Power conditioner
- these suppress RF and other line noise, supposedly
- our homes are not industrial style where you have stray loads and definitely not RF soup
- IMO this is not required, but some folks swear by it; so that's your call
5. Shielded power cords (after market or DIY)
- this is to mitigate any stray EMI emanating from the mains cord of the equipment
- theory is this EMI may affect small signal cables like digital ICs and/analog ICs
- IMO these are not required, but some folks have had positive and pleasant surprises by using them
6. Dedicated circuit for AV
- if possible, have a separate circuit/s for AV gear with its own MCB at LDB
- this may be possible in new homes, but in older homes may not be practical
In my home, this is what I've done.
Mains --> 1.1KVA offline UPS + Battery (Exide + Exide) --> 2KVA Servo Stabilizer (Vertex) --> Surge protectors (Belkin, MX/MDR) --> AV gear
The UPS is spec'd to power on a few lights, fans, TV and an amp when power cuts out. It is placed away from AV gear.
It does make some noise while charging the battery.
The servo is co-hosted along the AV gear for lack of space. It is a bit noisy when correcting, but we have grown to ignore it.
We use TV on UPS power very often. Usually, I switch off audio gear when power goes out.
Why do I have servo after UPS? Because with the old UPS I was seeing higher than 250V when on DC/battery
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Raghu
Here is my take on the power supply side of the game.
1. A suitable UPS (online of offline usually for single phase circuit)
- power supply from electricity board can cut off at any time; hard fact
- even if you are in an society where there is DG backup, this takes anywhere between 10-60 secs to come on
- a sine wave UPS is desired
- online UPS do AC --> DC --> charge battery --> DC --> AC cycle (generally noisy; host them away from TV/audio gear)
- offline UPS do AC --> charge battery + passthru on mains and battery out --> AC on standby (less noisy)
- if the UPS output can provide some voltage stabilization it is a bonus
2. A voltage stabilizer (for single phase circuit or specifically for AV gear if hosted, say only living room)
- choose something that would correct voltage over a fairly large swing, say 180-270V
- if output is programmable, set it to 230V/50Hz
- servo stabilizers do make some noise when correcting voltage; if you can live with this temporary inconvenience place it near AV gear
3. Surge protectors + multi socket outlets
- this has nothing to do with voltage fluctuations
- if there is a surge then electronics will fry; could happen when mains supply comes on after an outage
- surge protector fuse will cut out protecting your electronics
- multiple outlets are convenient to connect devices in play
4. Power conditioner
- these suppress RF and other line noise, supposedly
- our homes are not industrial style where you have stray loads and definitely not RF soup
- IMO this is not required, but some folks swear by it; so that's your call
5. Shielded power cords (after market or DIY)
- this is to mitigate any stray EMI emanating from the mains cord of the equipment
- theory is this EMI may affect small signal cables like digital ICs and/analog ICs
- IMO these are not required, but some folks have had positive and pleasant surprises by using them
6. Dedicated circuit for AV
- if possible, have a separate circuit/s for AV gear with its own MCB at LDB
- this may be possible in new homes, but in older homes may not be practical
In my home, this is what I've done.
Mains --> 1.1KVA offline UPS + Battery (Exide + Exide) --> 2KVA Servo Stabilizer (Vertex) --> Surge protectors (Belkin, MX/MDR) --> AV gear
The UPS is spec'd to power on a few lights, fans, TV and an amp when power cuts out. It is placed away from AV gear.
It does make some noise while charging the battery.
The servo is co-hosted along the AV gear for lack of space. It is a bit noisy when correcting, but we have grown to ignore it.
We use TV on UPS power very often. Usually, I switch off audio gear when power goes out.
Why do I have servo after UPS? Because with the old UPS I was seeing higher than 250V when on DC/battery
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Raghu
Last edited:
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