Looking for advice

[venkatcr]

Are CDs that are true copies of their analogue master tapes available? If so which company? Listen to LP version of the above songs. You will know what I am talking about

Flanker, I really don't understand what you are arriving at. CDs are not bad nowadays and with good DAC, they are as near to analogue sound as possible.

For a long time I have heard Pink Floyd's The Wall when it was released. This was on a LP through a Dual turntable with Ortofon Concorde cartridge. I have listened to it nearly 200 times. I have also heard the same on a good CD based system. The CD based system sounds as good and sometimes even better without the inevitable scratch noises that come with LPs.

Maintaining and using a record based system is an expensive and time consuming affair that very few people have the patience to undertake. That does not mean the rest of the world is to be denied the chance to listen to good music.

After extensive testing, John Atkinson has agreed that uncompressed music on computers are identical copies of their digital master in Redbook format. And for a long time, John also fought against CDs till he gave in to the inevitable march of technology. Today he swears by CD as one of the most wonderful formats for music storage and reproduction. The CDs that he creates and are released by Stereophile set world standards in sound storage and production.

Nearer at home, I have listened to live concerts and can clearly identify the voice of my friend OS Arun with my eyes closed. In many of his songs I can understand subtle nuances as he has sung them to me and explained the change in tone and pitch. I have heard his songs on a Nagra tape, and I have also heard his songs on a CD based system through simple speakers such as the B&W 303. I had written in another post when I played his CD in an exhibition. We had a huge crowd pushing into the room of Carnatic rasikas who were enthralled with the music coming out of the system.

Companies will find new and easier ways to transfer music for the world to listen to. Even companies such as Decca and Duetsche Grampahone have digitised all their music and are now looking at uncompressed formats for distribution. Being owners of the bulk of Western Classical recordings in the world, DG has been very very orthodox and have always tried to maintain pristine quality. The steps they are have taken and are taking into CD and now uncompressed FLAC or WAV files have been after extensive technical testing as well as user feedback. And Decca and DG have the world's best technologists and equipment at their beck and call.

Worrying about technology to a certain extent is OK, but pushing it to an extent where you start worrying about the technology more than enjoying the music is a sheer waste of time.

Cheers

 

[flanker.r]

Hi Venkatcr,

Please read my post carefully. Nowhere have I mentioned CD as a format is inferior to vinyl (I decided 4 years back that I would not involve myself in such discussions....)

What I was referring to is that and would state again is that the quality of analogue playback equipment available in studios these days is of extremely poor quality and not maintained well. Hence even when recorded at 24 bit resolution and high sampling frequencies, the digital copies will only be poor. This is not because of the problem with digital medium or CD. Tape played at wrong speed and worn out heads/rollers will obviously made a bad copy even in digital medium. To add to this, the levels are adjusted to make use of additional headroom provided by CDs. it is a different point however that this cannot increase dynamic range. However engineers are asked to do this (I myself have been asked to do it by several producers on numerous occasions)

So this leaves us with the question, how do we listen to the great music of yester years with their original quality, mix and tonal balance as how those artists, composers and sound engineers had intended. No choice but vinyl. I can site numerous recordings on CD which have their speaker channels reversed, Speeds incorrect and tonal balance altered

Which brings us back to the original question. Should we use these CDs to evaluate equipment. I am not saying anything against equipment, test methodology or digital medium. How will you evaluate the tonal balance of Lata??s or Janaki??s voice if the source material has it manipulated ? What is your yard stick? Do you know which equipment/speaker offers better fidelity if your source material has been compromised.

 

[ajinkya]

flanker,

Your observations are sound. However, are you referring to the state of recording studios today or a few years back? I ask because most of the Hindi music CDs I have listened to recently sound tonally accurate and well recorded to me. Of course, I don't have the master tape to compare them against. Can you name a few recording studios who indulge in the practices you mention? Or can you at least mention which genre of music this practice takes place most in i.e is it mostly film music, instrumental music etc. that has such poor recording techniques?

I have heard this mention of Indian studios having bad recording practices from a few folk but none of them have been able to substantiate or back up their claim. So if you could please mention a few CDs that you know are badly recorded, it would be very interesting to listen to them and compare them to something well recorded, just so I can have a benchmark for the future.

Thanks,
Ajinkya.

 

[thevortex]

I have listened to a few old Hindi Kishore classics that were fairly poorly recorded. I think the company was HMV, but I am not sure.

On the other hand, I have listened to a Yesudass collection in Hindi which was mindblowing as far as quality is concerned. So, it varies.

 

[flanker.r]

I am referring to CD mastering studios. Not session studios where recordings are made. Equipment there is excellent these days

Check out recordings from late 80s and early 90s. This period represents golden age of studio analogue recordings and Vinyl manufacturing processes in India. I also consider this period because you may have original cassettes or LPs to evaluate and find out for yourself. Why are CDs released today of those soundtracks horrible? Compare them against vinyl, cassettes or even the original CD of the same tracks that were released then. If you listen to tamil, why is new CD version of Dalapathi, Guna, Punnagai Mannan, Agni Natchatram so bad. Illayaraja used 16 track tape machines, Commodore and Atari music computers, and sequencers to record Punnagai mannan tracks and the quality of recording on LP was impeccable. Why is the CD version sold today horrible? Nothing wrong with CD medium. Bad analogue playback gear and poor mastering. In hindi same applies to Tezaab, Qayamat se Qayamat tak, beta, aashiqi, etc

I cannot name studios or engineers who resort to this (and their is no necessity to in this tread or point we are talking about). The intention of discussing this is to not evaluate gear based on modern CDs releases of yester years

 

[alok78]

Interesting information indeed...I have learnt a lot already...Thanks to all the folks who pitched in!

Just to let you folks know...Most of my music is digitized. I will be mostly playing music from my iMAC streaming through Airport Express which I will connect to the stero-AMP.

I do have all my content in original CDs, but because of the convenience, I have a strong feeling I might end up playing mostly AAC(M4A) files from my iMAC

Regards,
Alok

 

[ajinkya]

Flanker,
Thanks for the info. I'll try to get some of the hindi CDs you mentioned to compare.

Alok,
Look at Flac as a ripping+storage alternative. It is lossless and space-saving, so you can retain the audio quality at CD level and still save quite a bit on storage space. Or get one of the 500GB Seagate USB drives as a single source for all your media. If you're going to be spending money on a good music system, don't crimp on the source of audio...otherwise it's like buying racing michelline tyres for a maruti 800.

 

[venkatcr]

Excellent advice, Venkat! Can you think of any parallels (voices - male and female) in Tamil music?

Vortex I am just getting in to Tamil film songs, But anyhow here goes with a small list of songs that have high pitched singing:

• Anjali (Anjali)
• Maalai Pozhuthin (P.Susheela, Bhagyalakshmi)
• Naalaam Naalaam Thirunaalaam (P.B.Sreenivas & P.Susheela, Kathalikka Neramillai)
• Povooma Oorvalam (Chinna Thambi)
• Manmatha Raasa (Thiruda Thirudi)
• Kandu Kaanbathaellam (Jeans)
• Kaartru Kudhiryile (Kaadhala)

Writing Tamil words in English is tricky. I hope you are able to get the right songs.

Cheers

 

[thevortex]

Excellent selections, Venkat. And no problem undertanding which songs you are referring to. I have every one of those songs - just not in CD format

Lets see. I am expanding my CD collection. And you got it right when you said that it is the treble and the weeter which is in focus when it is Indian music in question.

 

[alok78]

Folks,

I purchased NAD C325BEE and Wharfedale 9.5 speakers. Bought from Mr. Masood (Total Sound) in Bangalore.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I am really enjoying the setup!!! Having a blast

Best Regards,
Alok

 

[hdmyg8586]

DVI computer monitor adaptor

I found that connector you were looking for
Cindy, is this the thing you were looking for?
Wholesale Computer Accessories, Free Shipping, Wholesaler Distributor
It's on the list of computer accessories and parts. They have the DVI video thing to convert that jap monitor to work with your other computer. Just about any other kind of wire adaptor, usb connectors, monitor extension wires, ps2 extention wires, and all kinds of female and male swap connectors and things that I think would help your shop. If that above link don't work then goto FREE Shipping Of Wholesale Items China Direct Wholesaler Distributor and click on computer accessories. Let me know if that is what you need and give me your email address again.

 

[RAC]

Folks,

I purchased NAD C325BEE and Wharfedale 9.5 speakers. Bought from Mr. Masood (Total Sound) in Bangalore.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

I am really enjoying the setup!!! Having a blast

Best Regards,
Alok

Hi. Please mention the prices you have paid.

 

[alok78]

I paid 27K for the Wharfedale speakers and 22K for the NAD amp...

Regards,
Alok

 

[venkatcr]

Congratulations Alok !!

Though I don't believe in it personally, please wait for a few weeks for the speakers to 'break-in'. They will then start sounding more pleasant.

Cheers