LYRITA 6C33CB SET vs CADENCE VA 1

[aks07]

Apples and oranges.

But the excellent review so clearly demonstrates the SET vs PP difference. And Kamal ji knows his stuff.

Ideally one should have both :yahoo:

 

[mahiruha]

Hello dinyaar,
first of all apologies to Kamal fordiscussing something which is not so relevent. Well I fully agree with you that a person who has won three different gradnslam titles has something much more than a good pair of legs. We love it or hate it I know if he playes Federer even with a broken leg he will beat him. Why the simple answer is Rafa has somehow managed to attack Federer's mind. At this level it is more of a mind game rather than skills when the differences are not that big. If you collect statistics of Nadal Federer match you will see that Rafa forces Federer to make more unforced errors why because Federer has to win every point 4-5 times. Rafa returns everything. That's why I termed him more of a runner. If a person has to put this much effort to win every game his career span cannot be long. I really doubt it if he can win any more grandslams but he will definitely beat Federer. Actually it reminds me of one funny story. One evening in London I was playing tennins with my friend. We were both novice and just having fun but competitive match. But beside us there was a girl about 12-13 years old practicing with her coach. When we saw the amount of force she was putting behind the shots we were just stunned. that day I decided we as a player are really really bad and more or less stopped playing tennis.
thanks.

 

[dinyaar]

Hello dinyaar,
first of all apologies to Kamal fordiscussing something which is not so relevent. Well I fully agree with you that a person who has won three different gradnslam titles has something much more than a good pair of legs. We love it or hate it I know if he playes Federer even with a broken leg he will beat him. Why the simple answer is Rafa has somehow managed to attack Federer's mind. At this level it is more of a mind game rather than skills when the differences are not that big. If you collect statistics of Nadal Federer match you will see that Rafa forces Federer to make more unforced errors why because Federer has to win every point 4-5 times. Rafa returns everything. That's why I termed him more of a runner. If a person has to put this much effort to win every game his career span cannot be long. I really doubt it if he can win any more grandslams but he will definitely beat Federer. Actually it reminds me of one funny story. One evening in London I was playing tennins with my friend. We were both novice and just having fun but competitive match. But beside us there was a girl about 12-13 years old practicing with her coach. When we saw the amount of force she was putting behind the shots we were just stunned. that day I decided we as a player are really really bad and more or less stopped playing tennis.
thanks.

Hahaha Ok.
Sorry Mod and Kamal for totally going off topic.
Mahiruha that little girl who was playing alongside has probably only played tennis all her life and hence was hitting the ball that crisply!!!
Have seen 'wimpy' looking guys really crack the ball and tough blokes sometimes cant!!! More about skill and correct technique. Its a really tough sport sport to excel at and there is no point getting disheartened. I'll give u this example of a 12 year old chinese boy who came to train at our club in bbay. I saw him play on the adjacent court and was amazed at his skills and ball control. His coach requested we knock together. In the first few points i thought he was OK. Thought he is good but nothing spectacular and conveyed it to his coach who was claiming he is ranked in the top 10 in Asia in his age group. Played a few sets subsequently and the 'kid' thrashed me 6-1,6-1. No power or big serve or anything but NO MISTAKES and that comes from practise day in and day out.

I agree that Federer has a mental block against Nadal much like Roddick has against him. The poor guy played the match of his life and still lost.

Suri some players are extremely talented (eg Mr Fedex) and some are pure hard workers (Eq Nadal, Lendl). Its never as much fun to watch a Nadal or a lendl as it is when u watch a Federer. BOTH can be and are very effective though. Actually i respect the latter category more as a guy like Federer is blessed. He has everything (i mean strokes, skills, tennis brain) but i dont know if i can accept him as the greatest ever when he has this win/loss record with Nadal!!!
Anyway no more tennis talk from me. Problem is this has been the one passion that has stayed with me all these 40 years and definately more than HIFI.
Rgds

 

[thevortex]

I agree with Dinyaar. I am a die-hard Federer fan. But I do respect Nadal's tenacity, physical prowess and sheer, unstinting courage. He does have a mental leg-up over Federer. It remains to be seen if that still stays after he comes back fro injury.

Graceless pugilist he may be. But we must respect the results that he has got while still in his early twenties! Sorry for the diversion.

 

[Kamal]

Friends, many thanks for the appreciation.
I'll try to answer some points raised one by one.
@heliumflight-I've promised to drop by very soon.
@Buswal-I too am eagerly awaiting the new speakers by Lyrita.Viren says it'll take another week/10days.Perhaps we could meet at his place for an audition?
@AmitNoida-there's always a next time .pal.Winter's on its way & i'm sure we'll have many more sessions.
As regards how your ProAcs will pair with the 6C33CB, why don't you just take them across to Viren's along with you fav music & listen?Your ears will give you all the answers you need.
@Vinod-A SS Amp for slam & butt kicking bass & a Tube Amp for lyricism,delicacy,lump-in-the-throat & tears-in-the-eyes emotion would be an ideal solution, space/funds/wife permitting, the last not the least !
@Asit-The VA 1 has a solid state pre & a valve (EL 34) output stage.Thats the way Cadence has chosen to design it ,unlike, say, Jolida which has the more common Valve pre/SS output stage.
It would indeed very interesting to see how the 6C33CB pairs with your Cantons, if that ever gets planned, & how the sound differs from that with your mighty Leben.Perhaps such a session courtesy Mahi, with Cranky also there would make for a memorable evening?
@Vortex-I would unhesitatingly say that the 2A3 based SET puts out even more of the SET magic, viz better harmonics,transients, attack/decay, even more retrieval of low level detail, inner dynamics.Music is a texture of so many notes buliding up & fading away, simultaneously/one after the other which is what one refers to when we talk about the 'flow' of music.And all this helps to recreate the complex texture & the 'emotion' of the music.When a system helps to create this, it results in a musically satisfying experience.Valve amps & particularly SET valve amps are adept at this even if they don't 'measure' as well as solid state amps.Among the output valves used for SET amps, the 2A3's are prized for their very high level of musicality( which I've attempted to define as per my own auditioning experience over the years).
But because of their low output power, 3 watts RMS, they need to be paired with high efficincy speakers, 92db or more, to generate satisfactory SPLs in a typical room.I know Stevie is going to take issue with this, he seems to have been utterly seduced by the 45's,but even that would underscore what i'm attemting to convey thru this review.
@Dinyaar & suri- this is what happens when one tries to be clever with his similies-I asked for it!
But I too have had the privilege of witnessing the epic five setter bet Borg & Mcnroe & Borgs dethronement the follg year.
I 100 % agree with the comment that at the top level, its more of a mind game.
But now, back to Valve amps!

 

[anm]

that's what I too plan to do - two sets of speaker + amps (my wife is not aware of this - so that might change) but it "sounds" to be a good strategy

regards

I'm wondering like George said can I have 2 amps for 2 duties ? - that'd would be wonderful if all the parties are happy at my place. There is so much good news for Viren's amps here from users here.

 

[keith_correa]

WOW Is Nadal only a runner!!!!!!!! He can play a bit u know. He has beaten the greatest player ever more times than he has lost by using a 'bit' of skill I guess.
Am not taking a dig at u Mahiruha or suri but Nadal is something. Watch him live if u can and see the spectacle. If u play tennis try hitting the ball with that much topspin and try getting back half as many balls.
I am a federer fan big time but i cannot run down nadal at all. I mean the 'boring' clay court bully won wimbledon!!! My take is if he can (and he will) improve his serve i doubt fedex will beat him ever.
Once again i state that i am a Federer fan and my mood/day is spoilt when he loses.
Also remember Federer is brought up on swiss clay and it is not as much of a shock that he won a French as is Nadals win at wimbledon with his clay court game. There were many clay courters who would just skip wimbledon entirely and the few that played most times lost miserably. I guess the man has a tremendous 'will' and desire and has a huge heart not just a great pair of legs!!!!!
Its also unfair to compare players from different era s. Borg was great in his day but the game evolves, athletes train differently now and equipment is like rocket science these days. When Borg made a comeback (lost most of his money) he was thrashed by henri leconte.
I saw the Sampras/federer showdown in NY and federer won but IMO he was playing in 3rd gear. Speed of the Sampras serve was amazing though even after retiring from competetion.
Anyway thanks Kamal for the write up.
Rgds

Hear! Hear!
I'm a big Federer fan too but calling Rafa more of a "runner" than a player borders on the ridiculous and I hope no one is touchy enough to take offense at what I'm saying.

Now I'm just waiting for Usain Bolt to play competitive tennis and excelling at it by "running" :lol:

And by the by - Thanks Kamal for the good writeup.

 

[suri]

But now, back to Valve amps!

Veritas,

After reading your excellent post, further discussion re valve amps may be superfluous, and i am sure any reader who has not taken the plunge (e.g., I ) will know where to, tentatively, dip his/her toe!

regards

 

[Asit]

@Asit-The VA 1 has a solid state pre & a valve (EL 34) output stage.Thats the way Cadence has chosen to design it ,unlike, say, Jolida which has the more common Valve pre/SS output stage.

So are you saying instead of a passive pre part, the VA1 indeed has an active SS pre?

It would indeed very interesting to see how the 6C33CB pairs with your Cantons, if that ever gets planned, & how the sound differs from that with your mighty Leben.Perhaps such a session courtesy Mahi, with Cranky also there would make for a memorable evening?

Mahiruha,
Are you there? Are you up to it? We stay very close together, so should not be a problem. Only problem is that I still have not fixed my TT because of lack of time. Let's see if I can fix it before that time, so you can bring your vinyl collection. Of course I have a CDP or two and a cassette deck or two, no problem with sources.
The SET (15 wpc) should have no problem driving my Cantons (93db). My Leben is only 12wpc, however it has taps for 4, 6, 8 Ohms. Do the Lyrita SETs have similar taps? My cantons have 4 Ohm impedance.

Regards

PS: I was keenly following the parallel discussion on tennis. Having played the game a bit and also having watched some of the older players live, of course as always I have very strong views. Had to resist myself very hard from commenting .

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Do the Lyrita SETs have similar taps?

Viren can wind the transformers to accomadate most configurations.I had the 2A3 SET OPT's wound for 16 ohm and 8 Ohm taps.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Asit]

Hi Rajiv,

Sure, I sort of expected that. Most tube amp manufacturer's with transformers at the output stage would do that to match the speaker impedance, usually up to 16 Ohms.

However, the issue here is a bit specific. According to Kamal's suggestions, if we do a comparison of sorts of the Leben and Mahiruha's SET using my Cantons, then for a fair comparison the SET must be matched to work with a load of 4 Ohms, because my Cantons have a 4 Ohm impedance.

Mahiruha is getting single driver speakers from Lyrita (the Harmony one made even taller I suppose especially for Mahiruha's pool table). Naturally then the amp will come well matched for those speakers. In Lyrita website, I did not find the impedance of these speakers.

Regards.

 

[mahiruha]

Mahiruha,
Are you there? Are you up to it? We stay very close together, so should not be a problem. Only problem is that I still have not fixed my TT because of lack of time. Let's see if I can fix it before that time, so you can bring your vinyl collection. Of course I have a CDP or two and a cassette deck or two, no problem with sources.
The SET (15 wpc) should have no problem driving my Cantons (93db). My Leben is only 12wpc, however it has taps for 4, 6, 8 Ohms. Do the Lyrita SETs have similar taps? My cantons have 4 Ohm impedance.

Hello Asit,
yes I am here and very much following the thread. Well I am always up for experimentations. Let the things arrive first we can arrange some test under controlled environment. In the meantime Viren has sent me some Jazz cds. I am trying to develop my taste in them.I also need to upgrdae my TT cartridge. Hopefully it will be done before the amp's arrival. Regarding impedence matching I have no idea need to ask Viren if the amp has any such options.
Thanks.

 

[GeorgeO]

Viren has an excellent collection of Jazz CDs and I have gone across a couple of times to pick up a few, though ended up both times buying some more than planned! He will recommend which to buy as well. The list of CDs is available on his site, and he also ships them out.

For those who havent listened too much to jazz, there is a pretty large range of stuff that one can listen to and enjoy-female audio, piano, large bands, quartets, trios, various wind instruments, guitar, jazz festival recordings, etc.

 

[viren bakhshi]

Hi,

The Lyrita Harmony One speakers are an even 8 ohm load.

The 6C33C SET amp seems to be quite tolerant of varying loads. The output transformer 8 ohm tap will drive speakers from 4 - 10 ohms quite easily. The 4 ohm load may affect power delivery somewhat, but you won't notice it at normal listening levels.

The same amp is already driving another set of Canton speakers with a customer in Noida without any problems.

Regards,
Viren

 

[psychotropic]

whipping federer's artistic ass every single time I don't know why people carry the impression that nadal is all power and no finesse. He's a fantastic tennis player. There have been lots of runners before, but no Nadal. He has got the better of a player who most people consider to possess the greatest technique in recent times, on most occasions! some respect, gentlemen!

and oh yes, the wimbledon final, federer didn't out technique roddick, roddick was more than his equal, federer just won because of his superior stamina.

Nadal = what is this monkey doing here?

 

[suri]

whipping federer's artistic ass every single time I don't know why people carry the impression that nadal is all power and no finesse. He's a fantastic tennis player. There have been lots of runners before, but no Nadal. He has got the better of a player who most people consider to possess the greatest technique in recent times, on most occasions! some respect, gentlemen!

and oh yes, the wimbledon final, federer didn't out technique roddick, roddick was more than his equal, federer just won because of his superior stamina.

Hi psychotropic,

no disrespect meant - and of course, Nadal is playing at the top and racking up those victories.

that comment i made was loose, and in retrospect, i should not have made it.

but, at least, let me try to mitigate my sin with this explanation-

in any physical endeavor (humans), there are some who make it look easy and others who make it look difficult.

for example, if one has watched tendulkar at the crease (earlier years),
that one would say " hey, i can do that!" These naturally gifted athletes can make you feel that way - in a sense these players are born to play that game.

Sunil Gavaskar and Tendulkar have played at the very top - yet, if a tyro watched videos of both these greats at the crease, who would he choose to emulate?

Schumacher (Mike) and Senna raced at the pinnacle of motorsports, but who was the one everyone wanted to be? Senna was a mad genius who could not brook the idea of losing, and, of course, the scheming schumacher was the person responsible for his death. Michael Schumacher
has won many F1 titles, but not many want to be him.

what does the wife say when the husband drives too fast and she thinks he is planning their heavenward journey? -"hey useless, don't think you are schumacher! stop the car, i am getting out, you go and die if you want."

why does the wife say that ?- because in her lifetime she has read the news and happened to see Schumacher's name several times as title winner. yet, keen observers know the difference, and do not want to be him.

So when i asked, rhetorically, "what is nadal doing there" (at the top), i meant to convey my sense of surprise about the way he is whipping federer's artistic **** every single time

the human mind is instinctively drawn towards genius whenever/wherever it expresses itself

 

[srikarkav]

Thanks kamal for the nice writeup. For some of us who have never heard the tubes they remain a mystery. May be we will solve it someday.


BTW I have always thought McEnroe is the Clint Eastwood of tennis.

cheers,
sri

 

[psychotropic]

I am a huge Senna fan and can't stand Schumacher, but I am very curious to know your theory on how schumacher was responsible for Senna's death. Or is it because Schumacher was behind Senna at Tamburello and pushing him?

There was definitely something fishy about Senna's death. That car went straight into the wall, there was not even an 'attempt' to turn. Personally I have a certain team principal in mind when I think of people who could have been responsible for Senna's death.

Schumacher (Mike) and Senna raced at the pinnacle of motorsports, but who was the one everyone wanted to be? Senna was a mad genius who could not brook the idea of losing, and, of course, the scheming schumacher was the person responsible for his death.

 

[stevieboy]

.
But because of their low output power, 3 watts RMS, they need to be paired with high efficincy speakers, 92db or more, to generate satisfactory SPLs in a typical room.I know Stevie is going to take issue with this, he seems to have been utterly seduced by the 45's,but even that would underscore what i'm attemting to convey thru this review.

kamal!

somehow i caught this thread only today. but really glad to hear you up and about after a long long hiatus! i do not take issue with your statement. when i first ordered the SET and viren told me about the tubes i had to do research on them to find out more and i found that among all DHT tubes, they have the best reputation for musicality and seduction. i posted the following quote by lynn olson somewhere else and i repeat it, with liberty here cos of a bad memory. it went something like this "2A3 tubes are like a glass of champange, effortlessly allowing musical detail to bubble to the surface" and i do recommend the 2A3 as a very musical tube over others. the 2A3 also scores big cos its got good bass control too. (of course relatively speaking comparing tubes eg the 300B which is supposed to have good midrange but loose bass).

however just wait till viren modifies the amp for the vt52s (a special version of the 45 tube) he has and then you can decide which is better

regards

 

[thevortex]

whipping federer's artistic ass every single time I don't know why people carry the impression that nadal is all power and no finesse. He's a fantastic tennis player. There have been lots of runners before, but no Nadal. He has got the better of a player who most people consider to possess the greatest technique in recent times, on most occasions! some respect, gentlemen!

and oh yes, the wimbledon final, federer didn't out technique roddick, roddick was more than his equal, federer just won because of his superior stamina.

Psychotropic - beg to disagree. Roddick played out of his skin. He matched Federer and for his effort he was immensely unlucky not to lift the trophy. But to say that Federer won because of superior stamina - I dont think that would be fair.

Roddick may serve big, but the champions always serve big when needed. A look at the aces column would reveal a lot about the match. Statistics apart - I was surprised at Roddick's back court game improvement. He has become a serious threat now even when he is not at the net. I also thought it was exemplary how he controlled his infamous and fiery temper. At the end of the day though Federer triumphed. Not just because of better technique. He is arguably the best player ever in the world of tennis.