Mono Blocks vs 2 Channel Power Amp

[newlash09]

Just one question, I .not lagging behind in good clean sufficient power for my speakers?

Ideally power treatment, cables, vibration control and room treatment are best reserved for the end, once you have a sound you like, they will enhance it further increasing your musical enjoyment. So please don't get distracted with spending money on them at this stage. I would suggest spending the max you can on the best speakers you like. Next on the best amplification that suits your speakers.

Please remember that the speaker have to suit your musical taste and your room.

Next amplification should suit those speakers.

Dac and source components have to suit your taste in musical presentation..

This is the proper hierarchy to be followed for a happy system

 

[newlash09]

Totally confused now. Don't know what to try now. Same amp different speakers or same speakers and stereo amps with dacs etc. Too difficult

Since you are selling everything, I would suggest to go with that. Then start with a speaker search. Once you find that singular speaker you absolutely lust after, then look for a stereo amp with enough power to drive them

 

[Vivek Batra]

Since you are selling everything, I would suggest to go with that. Then start with a speaker search. Once you find that singular speaker you absolutely lust after, then look for a stereo amp with enough power to drive them

I see the path is defined now. Thanks a lot.

 

[newlash09]

I see the path is defined now. Thanks a lot.

Most welcome vivek...always happy to be of help

 

[Vivek Batra]

Just wondering no one talked about Klipsch Forte III or Cornwall III. They are very nice speakers and not cheap too. Any one has experience with these pairs?

 

[jai1611]

I've heard the Forte 3. Very different sound - dynamic, open. Worth a listen if possible. Not speakers that can be bought without listening first. I found them a bit fatiguing, but that's a reflection of what I look for rather than the speakers.

If looking at speakers in that price range, try and demo Harbeth and PMC as well. Also, Viren's horn speakers (Lyrita)

It may be worth making a trip to Delhi to audition a few different brands if the range available locally is limited

 

[Vivek Batra]

I've heard the Forte 3. Very different sound - dynamic, open. Worth a listen if possible. Not speakers that can be bought without listening first. I found them a bit fatiguing, but that's a reflection of what I look for rather than the speakers.

If looking at speakers in that price range, try and demo Harbeth and PMC as well. Also, Viren's horn speakers (Lyrita)

It may be worth making a trip to Delhi to audition a few different brands if the range available locally is limited

I went to Bangalore last month specially to audition Forte but unfortunately they were not in stock with the distributor itself. Harbeth could be more costlier than Forte not sure where to audition them. For sure a trip to capital is inevitable now.

 

[raghupb]

Totally confused now. Don't know what to try now. Same amp different speakers or same speakers and stereo amps with dacs etc. Too difficult

Welcome to the madness

From reading the thread, it seems to me that you still have not identified what you are looking for.
The only thing that is clear is the budget (a big one and fraught with danger).

Many FMs have chimed in on various points. So I will not sound repetitive.
Narrow down on a set of speakers for your listening space.
Choose proper amplification (IA or pre/pwr as budget allows).
Fix your sources/DAC, if need be.

Don't rule out bookshelf/standmount speakers. They may work well for listening space.
Bigger is not always better; the room can and will be your No. 1 enemy.
If simplifying, consider a good pair of actives with sub expansion; no mix-match of components required.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[Vivek Batra]

Welcome to the madness

From reading the thread, it seems to me that you still have not identified what you are looking for.
The only thing that is clear is the budget (a big one and fraught with danger).

Many FMs have chimed in on various points. So I will not sound repetitive.
Narrow down on a set of speakers for your listening space.
Choose proper amplification (IA or pre/pwr as budget allows).
Fix your sources/DAC, if need be.

Don't rule out bookshelf/standmount speakers. They may work well for listening space.
Bigger is not always better; the room can and will be your No. 1 enemy.
If simplifying, consider a good pair of actives with sub expansion; no mix-match of components required.

Cheers,
Raghu

You got me right. Feeling like going to hibernation for some time and think afresh.

 

[jai1611]

I went to Bangalore last month specially to audition Forte but unfortunately they were not in stock with the distributor itself. Harbeth could be more costlier than Forte not sure where to audition them. For sure a trip to capital is inevitable now.

The Harbeth distributor is Absolute Phase in Bangalore. I think Sound By Design is the dealer in Delhi

You gote right. Feeling like going to hi ernatio. For some time and think afresh.

That's a good idea. No point in hurrying such decisions

 

[Vivek Batra]

The Harbeth distributor is Absolute Phase in Bangalore. I think Sound By Design is the dealer in Delhi

That's a good idea. No point in hurrying such decisions

Had a quick chat with Sid from Sound By Design
Would see him sooner the possible.

Thanks mate.

 

[superczar]

Totally confused now. Don't know what to try now. Same amp different speakers or same speakers and stereo amps with dacs etc. Too difficult

Your AVR has a good DAC and amplifiers.
Can you do better than that, sure.. but the law of diminishing results would apply

as newlash09 says, that’s the next stage for tweaking.

Ideally power treatment, cables, vibration control and room treatment are best reserved for the end, once you have a sound you like, they will enhance it further increasing your musical enjoyment. So please don't get distracted with spending money on them at this stage. I would suggest spending the max you can on the best speakers you like. Next on the best amplification that suits your speakers.

Please remember that the speaker have to suit your musical taste and your room.

Next amplification should suit those speakers.

Dac and source components have to suit your taste in musical presentation..

This is the proper hierarchy to be followed for a happy system

First of all, pick your music source and a song you know well.
Listen to the same song on a variety of speakers while keeping the baseline similar I.e. At reference levels with no audyssey / any processing
Once you zero in on your preferred speakers, they should sound very close to the audition sound at your home despite the different amplification.
Then enable your desired adjustments (audysssey / dynamic vol) and see if you like it overall.

If not, you can embark on a quest for new amplification.

On a side note and adding a subjective comment- I’ve noticed KEF uni-q speakers tend to remain very detailed even at low volume even without any post processing.
It’d be worthwhile including them in your audition spree

 

[newlash09]

What kinda system you have. I will try to find something similar near by. Indeed it's land of biryanis and heaven for non veggies.

Haha..most welcome to try. My system should be in my signature. Please check it up. It's too complex with multiple amps and external cross overs. So not easy to describe. If you canno

I've heard the Forte 3. Very different sound - dynamic, open. Worth a listen if possible. Not speakers that can be bought without listening first. I found them a bit fatiguing, but that's a reflection of what I look for rather than the speakers.

If looking at speakers in that price range, try and demo Harbeth and PMC as well. Also, Viren's horn speakers (Lyrita)

It may be worth making a trip to Delhi to audition a few different brands if the range available locally is limited

Thought I'd chip in a bit as a user of pmc speakers, as same were mentioned in this thread.. These are not for everybody. The whathifi review is way off the mark. The pmc especially my 20.26 model have a deliberately recessed upper mid range. The idea was to make these speaker not sound shouty. And still perform at huge spl levels. The pmc are all about clarity and speed, and huge power handling for insane SPL's . The fastest and deepest bass I've ever heard in any system is from my own speakers. So these are mainly for edm and dance punk fans like myself. But for someone with a vocal centric interest in music, I would heartily suggest the ATC's.

 

[sandyjhyderabad]

Monoblocks give you extremely minimal crosstalk between the amplifiers. It means that in 2channel amps you have a slight amount of signal from left entering into right and then from right to left which will be very very minimal but it can be felt when you have a real high-end setup. This happens because of various reasons of power supply modulation and relatively lower PSRR ( Power supply rejection ratio ). Bit of a more in-depth technical analysis but if you have the budget and if you are a low to mid volume lister with relatively higher sensitivity speakers then just go with dual Class A monoblocks.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Monoblocks give you extremely minimal crosstalk between the amplifiers. It means that in 2channel amps you have a slight amount of signal from left entering into right and then from right to left which will be very very minimal but it can be felt when you have a real high-end setup. This happens because of various reasons of power supply modulation and relatively lower PSRR ( Power supply rejection ratio ). Bit of a more in-depth technical analysis but if you have the budget and if you are a low to mid volume lister with relatively higher sensitivity speakers then just go with dual Class A monoblocks.

Thanks for the additional info. I won't settle less than monoblocks now.

 

[arj]

Vivek, my suggestion is that rather than getting into Monoblocks/stereo etc, what is important is to get the right amp for the speaker. Practically looking at the sound as the primary objective and not getting caught into topologies/designs is the most critical as else you will go down from one rabbit hole to the other hence the way forward is to keep things simple.

While there are benefits to monos they also depend on the amp speaker synergy and the resolution of your speaker setup itself, in fact some of the best setups I have heard over the last several decade use integrated amps or stereos and not just Monos. So may be better to focus on choosing the speaker and then getting the right amp for it.

On the other hand going for a pair of Active speakers would be far better than monos since they have a custome designed Mono amp for each driver and hence sysergy is take care of. Eg an ATC active 19 where all you need is a good preamp and a source and may fall in your budget range as well. the SCM40 takes it even a notch higher..for each of these you are paying for not just the speaker but 6 mono amps and the cost of the speaker cable also saved.

In Audio there are several such discussions ie Tube vs SS, Single Driver Vs Multi, Open baffle/Electrostatic/Transmission line...., active vs Power, Integrated vs pre/power etc etc.. and there is no end to these discussions and each side has a valid point of view and hence there is no right answer.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Vivek, my suggestion is that rather than getting into Monoblocks/stereo etc, what is important is to get the right amp for the speaker. Practically looking at the sound as the primary objective and not getting caught into topologies/designs is the most critical as else you will go down from one rabbit hole to the other hence the way forward is to keep things simple.

While there are benefits to monos they also depend on the amp speaker synergy and the resolution of your speaker setup itself, in fact some of the best setups I have heard over the last several decade use integrated amps or stereos and not just Monos. So may be better to focus on choosing the speaker and then getting the right amp for it.

On the other hand going for a pair of Active speakers would be far better than monos since they have a custome designed Mono amp for each driver and hence sysergy is take care of. Eg an ATC active 19 where all you need is a good preamp and a source and may fall in your budget range as well. the SCM40 takes it even a notch higher..for each of these you are paying for not just the speaker but 6 mono amps and the cost of the speaker cable also saved.

In Audio there are several such discussions ie Tube vs SS, Single Driver Vs Multi, Open baffle/Electrostatic/Transmission line...., active vs Power, Integrated vs pre/power etc etc.. and there is no end to these discussions and each side has a valid point of view and hence there is no right answer.

Hi Arj

That's the problem I am facing, I don't know whether Amp needs a replacement or the speakers. So my plan forward is first try a stereo amp with my existing speakers or if possible try monos. If that doesn't make me happy then I need to start afresh for sure.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Vivek, my suggestion is that rather than getting into Monoblocks/stereo etc, what is important is to get the right amp for the speaker. Practically looking at the sound as the primary objective and not getting caught into topologies/designs is the most critical as else you will go down from one rabbit hole to the other hence the way forward is to keep things simple.

While there are benefits to monos they also depend on the amp speaker synergy and the resolution of your speaker setup itself, in fact some of the best setups I have heard over the last several decade use integrated amps or stereos and not just Monos. So may be better to focus on choosing the speaker and then getting the right amp for it.

On the other hand going for a pair of Active speakers would be far better than monos since they have a custome designed Mono amp for each driver and hence sysergy is take care of. Eg an ATC active 19 where all you need is a good preamp and a source and may fall in your budget range as well. the SCM40 takes it even a notch higher..for each of these you are paying for not just the speaker but 6 mono amps and the cost of the speaker cable also saved.

In Audio there are several such discussions ie Tube vs SS, Single Driver Vs Multi, Open baffle/Electrostatic/Transmission line...., active vs Power, Integrated vs pre/power etc etc.. and there is no end to these discussions and each side has a valid point of view and hence there is no right answer.

I will try my best not to just hoard the stuff. But to go withinimal.possible equipment I am happy with.

 

[arj]

Hi Arj

That's the problem I am facing, I don't know whether Amp needs a replacement or the speakers. So my plan forward is first try a stereo amp with my existing speakers or if possible try monos. If that doesn't make me happy then I need to start afresh for sure.

As I had said before, your speakers are a bottleneck for anything above a 1 lakh amp (guidance only) . if your budget were 1-2 lakhs any of the sugden/rega amps would have been good and the amp good enough for an upgraded speaker as well. The klipsch is a good speaker for HT and Rock and can really boogie but expecting it to do female vocals or gazhal very well and without sibiliance would be too much, as it goes beyond what it is meant for. There is a crossover issue between the mids and the high frequency in the 2-4Khz. I had tamed it to some extent by keeping a small piece of paper napkin in the horn neck but then moved on to a better quality Bookshelf ( JMR twins) which did the midrange so much better.

If your budget is 5-6 Lakhs then its a waste to spend that much on an amp for this speaker..the cliche'd car analogy of putting an audi engine into ford car is what comes to mind. There are so many options that it makes sense to go for a combination of an amp and a speaker which is well understood. The ATC actives are Fantastic options if you are starting from a clean slate. most of the folks already have an amp when looking for a speaker hence cannot go active..but an active have a matched up combo which is not easy to do.

When you do meet Sid, you dont have to decide , but give him your budget ( 85% of it) and see what he has to suggest as a combination . then we can help you

You tube videos of the speakers ( with a good headphone) will also give you an idea of how the music should sound

 

[Vivek Batra]

As I had said before, your speakers are a bottleneck for anything above a 1 lakh amp (guidance only) . if your budget were 1-2 lakhs any of the sugden/rega amps would have been good and the amp good enough for an upgraded speaker as well. The klipsch is a good speaker for HT and Rock and can really boogie but expecting it to do female vocals or gazhal very well and without sibiliance would be too much, as it goes beyond what it is meant for. There is a crossover issue between the mids and the high frequency in the 2-4Khz. I had tamed it to some extent by keeping a small piece of paper napkin in the horn neck but then moved on to a better quality Bookshelf ( JMR twins) which did the midrange so much better.

If your budget is 5-6 Lakhs then its a waste to spend that much on an amp for this speaker..the cliche'd car analogy of putting an audi engine into ford car is what comes to mind. There are so many options that it makes sense to go for a combination of an amp and a speaker which is well understood. The ATC actives are Fantastic options if you are starting from a clean slate. most of the folks already have an amp when looking for a speaker hence cannot go active..but an active have a matched up combo which is not easy to do.

When you do meet Sid, you dont have to decide , but give him your budget ( 85% of it) and see what he has to suggest as a combination . then we can help you

You tube videos of the speakers ( with a good headphone) will also give you an idea of how the music should sound

Hi Arj

I will tell you how it started. There are just two dealers in Chandigarh. One sells Klipsh
,Polk,Dali etc the other one sells Mission and MA. I was totally dumb when it comes to hi end stuff at that time as compared to now but not that smart yet as you guys are.. I came from old Philips speakers with power house thing with cassettes. Then to PC music. I liked Klipsch over MA and preferred the Klipsch Dealer in terms of dealing but that's not true anymore since he washed off his hand to help me. Anyways, at that time my budget was around 3 to 4 lacs Max and I spent that money.

The other dealer did mention that Klipsch are more suitable for HT but I didn't believe him thinking how this can be possible when sound is sound. It was my bad to think this way.

Other thing, the Klipsch dealer was not interested in selling a stereo amp as I wanted digital inputs like tuner Bluetooth spotify etc. I am surprised now that none of the dealer suggested combining my system with a network player. This is how I landed buying an AVR with useless digital inputs for me at least amd Klipsch Speakers because they sounded clear and looked great to me in comparision to MA and mission. I will be very honest here if I upgrade my speakers ( looks like inevitable) I would miss the copper color of the drivers and the cerametallic material they look great to me at least. I know


If I had some space I would have loved to keep the pair.

Hope all of you now can feel what kind of situation I was in and now I am in.

Thanks to everyone for your efforts to help me out.