Music PC

A stupid question. What do I use for transporting from the servers to the nodes?

Thanks

Not sure I get your question, but does rikhav answers your question.? BTW you use Rpi as the node/client what ever way you may call it, and once its on the same network as LMS, the web interface will auto detect all players. You can then rename them accordingly, like Bedroom Zone, Kitchen Zone, Living Room ...etc
 
Not sure I get your question, but does rikhav answers your question.? BTW you use Rpi as the node/client what ever way you may call it, and once its on the same network as LMS, the web interface will auto detect all players. You can then rename them accordingly, like Bedroom Zone, Kitchen Zone, Living Room ...etc

I actually asked rikhav the same question... a 2 PC setup for LMS seems an overkill.

Why not just use the Pi and be done with it? It's a single device and with streaming capabilities. Why add another PC (LMS seems limited to x86 PC h/w) and use that as a server?

I'm not against 2 PC setups. I've used them a lot, especially with JPlay. But that's usually where you need a powerful PC for processing, transcoding, file conversion, resampling, etc. kind of work, and a 2nd low spec PC for just playing the files. I don't see LMS doing any of the heavy lifting that needs a PC. From what I see it only works as a server (not even a streamer that every device on the network recognizes).

If one has to use a PC (I don't see a need in every instance) then Daphile is a better option. It's a killer player + all in one solution that works as a server/streamer and also as a player and can be used in a 1 PC or a 2 PC setup. I personally see a NAS as a better investment than a PC especially for media consumption. Either use the NAS via DLNA or add an SOC like the Pi for better functionality and more options (like you want to use a USB DAC).
 
For LMS even a PC with Pentium PC would do with 2 GB RAM

Ofcouse you need a HDD with storage capacity as big as your data

That's where a good NAS with DLNA comes in. It's much simpler that way. Works out of the box.

My thinking too, going with a NAS.

In addition a CCA offers a lot more benefits. You turn off the PC, you can even turn off the smartphone. It directly acts as a renderer and a media player and plays content off a NAS or from the cloud or a streaming service without needing another device like a PC. Think of the smartphone as a remote that's needed to change the channel, skip a track, etc. Beyond that the CCA directly interfaces with the content channel via wifi and does not need the smartphone or PC to be in the loop.
 
I actually asked rikhav the same question... a 2 PC setup for LMS seems an overkill.

Why not just use the Pi and be done with it? It's a single device and with streaming capabilities. Why add another PC (LMS seems limited to x86 PC h/w) and use that as a server?

I'm not against 2 PC setups. I've used them a lot, especially with JPlay. But that's usually where you need a powerful PC for processing, transcoding, file conversion, resampling, etc. kind of work, and a 2nd low spec PC for just playing the files. I don't see LMS doing any of the heavy lifting that needs a PC. From what I see it only works as a server (not even a streamer that every device on the network recognizes).

If one has to use a PC (I don't see a need in every instance) then Daphile is a better option. It's a killer player + all in one solution that works as a server/streamer and also as a player and can be used in a 1 PC or a 2 PC setup. I personally see a NAS as a better investment than a PC especially for media consumption. Either use the NAS via DLNA or add an SOC like the Pi for better functionality and more options (like you want to use a USB DAC).

Few misconceptions I would like to clear if I may ...

1. You dont need a powerful PC for Audio transcoding, resampling etc, a decent dual core does the job nicely.

2. LMS is not limited to x86 hardware. You can run LMS on windows/linux/MAC and headless servers including Raspberry Pis and other developer boards.

3. LMS does do decent transcoding and resampling, so there is some lifting done my LMS

4. LMS primarily works as a server BUT you can install and make the server run as a player as well. Just install squeezeplay on the same machine running LMS and you will have a player as well running on the same server. Infact thats what Daphile does. On windows machine you can even install squeezeplay as a headless player running as a windows service, so you wont even know a player is loaded at the back and running. You will only see it when you launch the LMS web interface, from where you just need to choose the player and start playing the song from the same machine running LMS.

5. LMS does works as a UPnP server, but yes not as a renderer like Moode

Daphile is good, but there is nothing Daphile can do and LMS cant except DSD and DOP I presume .....

Regards
Sammy
 
Last edited:
My thinking too, going with a NAS.

In addition a CCA offers a lot more benefits. You turn off the PC, you can even turn off the smartphone. It directly acts as a renderer and a media player and plays content off a NAS or from the cloud or a streaming service without needing another device like a PC. Think of the smartphone as a remote that's needed to change the channel, skip a track, etc. Beyond that the CCA directly interfaces with the content channel via wifi and does not need the smartphone or PC to be in the loop.

I do agree that the ability to stream directly from say Spotify server to CCA skipping the device running Spotify is one major advantage/feature I respect of CCA. But for multiroom kinda setup, LMS/Picore player combo provides far more flexibility and control (including media management) over your music/playlist than CCA
 
Hi Sam
Can you name few LMS based distros for RPI

Then I can get RPI3 :)
 
Hi Sam
Can you name few LMS based distros for RPI

Then I can get RPI3 :)

Yeah same for me too. Cannot find a port of LMS for the Pi. I'd be willing to give that a try.

Don't want to go back to the PC though.

squeezeplug is what I would suggest a one complete image for installing LMS and the player. BUT I just now came to know, that squeezeplug is now combined with MAX2Play and is now available as a complete new Web-based version. MAX2Play has added few more features and have come up with a single image file for complete solution. Give it a shot.

SqueezePlug on Max2Play announcementMax2Play | Max2Play

I however have always gone the manual way. If anyone is interesed I can point to the guids to install LMS the manual way ... :)

You can find an extension to the above project that I did below, but that is for advanced users who are ok with terminal commands and linux .... but its interesting ...

http://www.hifivision.com/home-thea...berry-pi-project-powered-lms-squeezelite.html
 
Few misconceptions I would like to clear if I may ...

1. You dont need a powerful PC for Audio transcoding, resampling etc, a decent dual core does the job nicely.

Unless you are using the insane resource hungry Bug Head / Infinity Blade player ;)
 
So let me understand if I am right. What Sam is proposing is the following:

1. A central PC with LMS installed.
2. One Rasberyy PIs for each room.

If we have this, we are talking about being as close to the Squeezebox concept as possible.

This will not suit me. I don't want to go about introducing more PCs (whatever size/OS) into my home. The options I am looking are:

1. I already have a TV in very bedroom. I will attach a media player in two bedrooms and get music/movies through DLNA. I will play the music on the TVs. May not be of high quality but will suffice for now. Later on I may attach a sound bar to raise the sound quality a bit. The Popcorn Hour A-401 with high end DAC and DSP processing and will fit my requirements well. At 268$, it is less that 10K.

2. For the drawing room and the master bedroom, I want just music. I am planning to install a small amp and a pair of speakers. Again I want to use DLNA to be able to choose songs from my main PC and play it. It is for these that I want a simple device where I can choose the songs I want using my Android and just play. For this the LMS + RPI seems to be complicated. The CCA or Gramophon Fon seem to be easier options.

I am planning to fool around with a RPI but that is more in terms of experimentation after I have everything set up. Price wise, the configuration of RPI in India is expensive. RPI+HifiBerry+Cabinet and other paraphernalia should work out to some 100-150$.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
1. You dont need a powerful PC for Audio transcoding, resampling etc, a decent dual core does the job nicely.

What he meant was when using PC as a music server

Actually even my Pi does transcoding and on the fly with MinimServer.

My point was in relation to the likes of upsampling to DSD, some folks like that. The Bug is a prime example.

Unless you are using the insane resource hungry Bug Head / Infinity Blade player ;)

I'm going to be giving HQPlayer a try soon. Will have to see how it compares to the Bug as a resource hog.
 
So let me understand if I am right. What Sam is proposing is the following:

1. A central PC with LMS installed.
2. One Rasberyy PIs for each room.

If we have this, we are talking about being as close to the Squeezebox concept as possible.

This will not suit me. I don't want to go about introducing more PCs (whatever size/OS) into my home. The options I am looking are:

1. I already have a TV in very bedroom. I will attach a media player in two bedrooms and get music/movies through DLNA. I will play the music on the TVs. May not be of high quality but will suffice for now. Later on I may attach a sound bar to raise the sound quality a bit. The Popcorn Hour A-401 with high end DAC and DSP processing and will fit my requirements well. At 268$, it is less that 10K.

2. For the drawing room and the master bedroom, I want just music. I am planning to install a small amp and a pair of speakers. Again I want to use DLNA to be able to choose songs from my main PC and play it. It is for these that I want a simple device where I can choose the songs I want using my Android and just play. For this the LMS + RPI seems to be complicated. The CCA or Gramophon Fon seem to be easier options.

I am planning to fool around with a RPI but that is more in terms of experimentation after I have everything set up. Price wise, the configuration of RPI in India is expensive. RPI+HifiBerry+Cabinet and other paraphernalia should work out to some 100-150$.

Thanks

If DLNA/UPnP is your prime option to distribute audio then also I would recomend Rpi with just Moode installed. Use Moode as a UPnP/Airplay renderer and not as a local player. Once you have Rpi with Moode connected to your Audio gear, it will show up in any UPnP controller, and since it also is an Airplay receiver, iTunes will also work. BUT this is not exactly a multiroon setup, you cannot stream independent audio or sync audio from one application all at the same time. This limitation will also be there with CCA. Lets take an example .......Say for example you are running spotify or iTunes from your laptop and you would like to send audio to zone one (living room), with CCA or Rpi(Moode) connected to your living room speakers. Now at the same time you want another music stream (song) to be sent from the same spotify or iTunes to another zone 2(Bedroom), you cannot do that. Even if you use different players. You CAN however send one stream from spotify and another from iTunes to different zones but that does not make sense and neither sounds feasible.

Ideally you should have one application, interface running, from where you can send independent music streams to different zones and also sync between different zones keeping other sources playing what ever they were playing. Plus the ability to control all streams with independent volume from an Android/iOS. That is where LMS comes and excels.
 
Last edited:
My point was in relation to the likes of upsampling to DSD, some folks like that. T

Upsampling to DSD is just a satisfaction rather actual difference, but yes upsampling to DSD does take some toll, but nothing in the lines of that a decent dual core (like C2D) cannot do effectively without straining itself too much.
 
If DLNA/UPnP is your prime option to distribute audio then also I would recomend Rpi with just Moode installed. Use Moode as a UPnP/Airplay renderer and not as a local player. Once you have Rpi with Moode connected to your Audio gear, it will show up in any UPnP controller, and since it also is an Airplay receiver, iTunes will also work. BUT this is not exactly a multiroon setup, you cannot stream independent audio or sync audio from one application all at the same time. This limitation will also be there with CCA. Lets take an example .......Say for example you are running spotify or iTunes from your laptop and you would like to send audio to zone one (living room), with CCA or Rpi(Moode) connected to your living room speakers. Now at the same time you want another music stream (song) to be sent from the same spotify or iTunes to another zone 2(Bedroom), you cannot do that. Even if you use different players. You CAN however send one stream from spotify and another from iTunes to different zones but that does not make sense and neither sounds feasible.

Ideally you should have one application, interface running, from where you can send independent music streams to different zones and also sync between different zones keeping other sources playing what ever they were playing. Plus the ability to control all streams with independent volume from an Android/iOS. That is where LMS comes and excels.

Actually Sam, all the scenarios you've mentioned are a possibility, though real life situations where they are needed would be extremely limited.

What's possible with CCA, using the same source/server and the same smartphone.

1. Send any song/album to any CCA in any room (obvious).
2. Send the same song/album to multiple CCAs in multiple rooms. I have 3, and I can use them in any combination i.e. 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 1 & 3, or 1, 2, & 3.
3. Send different song/album to different CCAs in different rooms.

Now there's definitely an advantage with LMS, but how much of an advantage it is depends on the individual.

If I'm in a room and listening to something then yes I'm all set. I'm moving to another room and want to transfer the current track/album to that room, I'm set all set here too.

I'm in a room listening to something, but want a different song/album in a different room, then I'm all set if I use another smartphone or tablet.

Of course wife wants her own songs in the kitchen or bedroom, she simply uses her smartphone. Everybody has one these days.

The problems arise only when there is 1 smartphone and you want to send different songs to different rooms. Even that can be done with a single smartphone, simply install another app that's similar to BubbleUPnP and you can do it.

For instance I use Spotify app to send it to room 1. I simply add my Spotify credentials to BubbleUPnP and from it send to room 2. It works, but not really needed as pretty much everyone has at least a smartphone and a tablet, but typically lots more. However, even with a single control point its doable by simply using different apps.
 
^

For your needs since you are already using Windows + Foobar, simply install this addon, https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_upnp.

Add Chromecast Audio to each room where you want to stream music.

Any Android device with BubbleUPnP app will then send music from Foo server to CCA, all wirelessly.

Yes this setup will also work and send independent audio streams but limitations.

1. You would be limited to play music only stored on your windows since foobar UPnP server will pick music from your windows folder.

2.You are limited to use your mobile only

But this is what I would suggest as a better approch. But that again would ask you to drop CCA and opt for Rpi (Moode) option. CCA for me has a lot of limitations when it comes to Multiroom audio. Anyway

1. Instead of using bubbleUPnP, use the UPnP controller of foobar itself to play the song. Under the drop down menu of upnp controller you will see Rpi Moode running and you can select the player (moode) to play the song.
what I discovered was (this was new to me as well) is once you select the UPnP renderer (Moode in this case) foobar opens up a seperate playlist window, and a seperate player with seperate vol bar for the renderer. If you select a different UpnP renenderer then you again get a seperate playlist/player/vol opened for you. This means you CAN stream independent music from foobar to different UPnP players. Assuming you are keeping all the UPnP players in different zones you got yourself a decent multiroom audio. BUT BUT BUT you STILL do not have the option to sync a song between any number of given zones. So we still have one advantage of LMS over here ....:D
CCA will not work in this solution.
 
Actually Sam, all the scenarios you've mentioned are a possibility, though real life situations where they are needed would be extremely limited.

What's possible with CCA, using the same source/server and the same smartphone.

1. Send any song/album to any CCA in any room (obvious).
2. Send the same song/album to multiple CCAs in multiple rooms. I have 3, and I can use them in any combination i.e. 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 1 & 3, or 1, 2, & 3.
3. Send different song/album to different CCAs in different rooms.

Now there's definitely an advantage with LMS, but how much of an advantage it is depends on the individual.

If I'm in a room and listening to something then yes I'm all set. I'm moving to another room and want to transfer the current track/album to that room, I'm set all set here too.

I'm in a room listening to something, but want a different song/album in a different room, then I'm all set if I use another smartphone or tablet.

Of course wife wants her own songs in the kitchen or bedroom, she simply uses her smartphone. Everybody has one these days.

The problems arise only when there is 1 smartphone and you want to send different songs to different rooms. Even that can be done with a single smartphone, simply install another app that's similar to BubbleUPnP and you can do it.

For instance I use Spotify app to send it to room 1. I simply add my Spotify credentials to BubbleUPnP and from it send to room 2. It works, but not really needed as pretty much everyone has at least a smartphone and a tablet, but typically lots more. However, even with a single control point its doable by simply using different apps.

Yes I agree situations can be achieved by different permutations and combinations, but with LMS everything is/can be done from one location/one application and one controller. Be it your Mobile or PC you do not have to change the controller or application or anything else, if Mobile is what you have you can do everything with LMS application on mobile. Like the second example you gave "want a different song/album in a different room, then I'm all set if I use another smartphone or tablet." with LMS no need for a different phone or TAB.

Third example "wife wants her own songs in the kitchen or bedroom, she simply uses her smartphone. Everybody has one these days." ........ With LMS she does not need her smartphone, all she needs is to yell at you... Hubby please play my this song in the kitchen :D and all you need to do is to select the kitchen player from LMS interface and play the song that's it (ofcourse she can use her smartphone as well to achieve the same, cant expect her to yell if she is on ananother floor)......... you then start to feel to listen to the same song running in kitchen in your bedroom, simply sync the two zones and thats it ....:)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top