My analog epiphany

[anilva]

Technics SL1200 GAE is one of the best turntables out there. People have their own biases between DD, Idler and Belt drives. I would encourage you to try the SL1200GAE with a EMT TSD15 cartridge.

Cheers

I wrote an account of my audiophile world unravelling visit at Audio Lounge Mumbai.

Do take a look: https://audiofool.substack.com/p/why-i-sold-my-50000-dac-part-one

Thoughts, bouquets, brickbats, all welcome. If you like the post, do please subscribe.

I don't know where I will end up by (maybe) going all-analogue. (Almost) no digital right now, but let's see.

Currently attempting to fit an SPU on a technics TT......foolishness you say .......I Agree...... it's gonna be fun though.

Post here>>

 

[Sean de Silva]

Not a fan - all the technics DD are dry and sterile sounding including the new ones. Never enjoyed them. You will only hear it once you put a quality belt drive beside it.

The whole point of analog is emotional connection and at least for me, it fails badly in this.

The idlers are fine - garrard, lenco, td124.

An interesting discussion here..

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-isnt-techincs-1200-considered-audiophile

 

[essrand]

I think we got side-tracked by analog vs digital and Technics-bashing.

Getting back on track, I heard that the newest iteration of the SME-30, the SME-35 supposedly a cheaper and better version of the SME-30 will be coming up for demo at Audio Lounge Mumbai next month.

Am looking forward to checking it out. Highly recommend the experience.

 

[reignofchaos]

I think we got side-tracked by analog vs digital and Technics-bashing.

Getting back on track, I heard that the newest iteration of the SME-30, the SME-35 supposedly a cheaper and better version of the SME-30 will be coming up for demo at Audio Lounge Mumbai next month.

Am looking forward to checking it out. Highly recommend the experience.

Looks like reinforced version of the old 15A - is this really an upgrade to the SME 30?

 

[essrand]

Looks like reinforced version of the old 15A - is this really an upgrade to the SME 30?

My guess would be a NO! But going with an open mind for a listen, whenever the TT makes it appearance. I think they are discontinuing the SME 30 to give the SME 60 a chance. Who knows.

 

[G401fan]

My guess would be a NO! But going with an open mind for a listen, whenever the TT makes it appearance. I think they are discontinuing the SME 30 to give the SME 60 a chance. Who knows.

The SME 35 trickles down some of rhe design features of the SME 60. It is definitely an inprovement on the 30, which goes back to 1989, and it is also priced higher.

 

[reignofchaos]

The SME 35 trickles down some of rhe design features of the SME 60. It is definitely an inprovement on the 30, which goes back to 1989, and it is also priced higher.

Honestly I don't see age having any correlation to sound in hifi and especially analog.

These days most designs are exercises in cost cutting and I am very wary when something new is introduced into the market.

There are exceptions - like components for improvement of streaming audio but not much else.

 

[Hiten]

I don't remember precisely but there are advances in turntables engineering. From DiyAudio conversations I came to know from Mr. Nigel that the engineer lady who worked for (loricraft Garrard 501) had developed new motor, which significantly reduced motor noise and Mr. Nigel made special power supply for it. Latest Technics reference model has improved motor design (more speed stability) and platter material. Some SME's tonearm models also has new advanced materials.
So improvements are being made in that field.
If not best, the most precise speed stability was achieved by Technics SP10 long back. Also Speed correction in good models (Specially three phase (Green Coil DD motor) and Quartz control model) does not show in speed stability measurements nor they are picked up in audition. Infact older Linn lp12 which is belt drive shows some speed variations which was audible. Later it was improved by power supply I think if I remember.
Regds.
addition : hope this is related or may help with original objectives of the thread.

 

[muralimmreddy]

The Denon DP-3000NE from people who have hear it seems to be an amazing TT, even better than the standard SL1200. You tube has a comparison as well as som clips which sound really good... put a DL103 and a good Phono and you have a great system especially if you are not keen to get onto the old models.

Thanks to your post, and reco's from prem and kishore. I got this Denon DP-3000NE + DL103 paired with Mcintosh C22 pre and Klipsh la scala all are at-least > 60 year old designs if i am not mistaken. This change brought some magic in to my chain This denon beats my 5-6x expensive DAC in fidelity (at-least in streaming) if the pressing is good

 

[arj]

Thanks to your post, and reco's from prem and kishore. I got this Denon DP-3000NE + DL103 paired with Mcintosh C22 pre and Klipsh la scala all are at-least > 60 year old designs if i am not mistaken. This change brought some magic in to my chain This denon beats my 5-6x expensive DAC in fidelity (at-least in streaming) if the pressing is good

Wonderful !
BTW have you tried placing the La Scala in a Corner ? I was told it makes a very big difference in sound and wanted to know if you have experienced it.

 

[rwnano]

Honestly I don't see age having any correlation to sound in hifi and especially analog.

These days most designs are exercises in cost cutting and I am very wary when something new is introduced into the market.

There are exceptions - like components for improvement of streaming audio but not much else.

this is - as we call in the North of India - "solaah aanney Sacch" - absolutely right. Older Amplifiers were better built with more robust power supplies. Older speakers had features like transmission lines in them - expensive today.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Older one. But I have heard the new one - more detail but emotionless.

Wondering what has emotion to do with music you listen. I would rather prefer a more accurate sound. Like the violin or guitar used in the particular music should sound exactly the same that was used and not sound like a generic instrument.

Music can sound very emotional for me even on my cheap Bluetooth speaker, but that doesn't mean what i am listening is accurate. Music connecting emotionally and music sounding accurately are two different things.

 

[reignofchaos]

Wondering what has emotion to do with music you listen. I would rather prefer a more accurate sound. Like the violin or guitar used in the particular music should sound exactly the same that was used and not sound like a generic instrument.

Music can sound very emotional for me even on my cheap Bluetooth speaker, but that doesn't mean what i am listening is accurate. Music connecting emotionally and music sounding accurately are two different things.

When it sounds like a real instrument and a living breathing human, it evokes emotion within us. When it just sounds like some recorded violin or guitar, it is emotionless. Lack of harmonic detail can do this. If natural harmonics are eaten up, the resulting sound can be emotionless. But this is only one of the the things.

Just ask yourself - why even bother with tubes? Class D is also accurate right - at least measurements say it is more accurate than anything else out there. Why is everyone including you not using class D in that case?

 

[sidvee]

Wondering what has emotion to do with music you listen. I would rather prefer a more accurate sound. Like the violin or guitar used in the particular music should sound exactly the same that was used and not sound like a generic instrument.

Music can sound very emotional for me even on my cheap Bluetooth speaker, but that doesn't mean what i am listening is accurate. Music connecting emotionally and music sounding accurately are two different things.

I think it is basically a subjective vs objective issue. When one is being subjective, things like emotion, musical connect etc. etc. crops up. Where as objective relates to accuracy, measurements etc. While objective markers are repeatable and fairly constant across listeners, subjectivity varies considerably from listener to listener - hugely influenced by other non music related variables at the time of listening, like moods, aesthetics of set ups like a warm tube glow, how much blood alcohol level in the system etc . Hence subjective remarks are just that - opinions, and everyone will have a different one. Apologies to the OP for the diversion.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Kannan]

@essrand read your well-wriiten blog of finding solace in a TT setup and gravitating to selling your expensive DAC. I have also read some of your earlier blogs on your audio journey of similar discoveries.
These ephiphanic moments are what makes this audiophile journey a pleasure.
I am sure this too is not going to be the last one and just a beginning of another journey. God knows, tomorrow you may have a totally different epiphanic moment that gravitates you in another direction.
As you rightly put somewere in your comment, there is nothing perfect (should I say perinially perfect) and you live the momment for whatever it is worth.

Wish you many more years of happy listening.

 

[Hari Iyer]

When it sounds like a real instrument and a living breathing human, it evokes emotion within us. When it just sounds like some recorded violin or guitar, it is emotionless. Lack of harmonic detail can do this. If natural harmonics are eaten up, the resulting sound can be emotionless. But this is only one of the the things.

Just ask yourself - why even bother with tubes? Class D is also accurate right - at least measurements say it is more accurate than anything else out there. Why is everyone including you not using class D in that case?

Alright. Ivam not going into objective nitigrity of class A vs Class D. I am still in the subjective domain. Do you always have to listen to Lata or Rafi in a high- end setup to be emotionally charged or does even a simple BT speaker invoke the emotions in you? I am asking you because you are an expert in emotion quotient. If even a simple setup can make you emotionally charged then you won't need any of these gadgets. Most musicians have a very simple setup at their home because what gives them the kick of good music is different from you and probably me too.
Your analogy of accuracy is different than mine. What I meant by accuracy is not objective parameters but subjective only. Lata andcRafi should sound accurate for their tonality and scale and their voice should not be coloured. An emotional connect can still be achieved if the song is good, the music is good, the recording is good and the hardware is suboptimal like a cheap BT speaker. Accuracy will be achieved if only everything is good/ accurate.

 

[square_wave]

Wondering what has emotion to do with music you listen. I would rather prefer a more accurate sound. Like the violin or guitar used in the particular music should sound exactly the same that was used and not sound like a generic instrument.

Music can sound very emotional for me even on my cheap Bluetooth speaker, but that doesn't mean what i am listening is accurate. Music connecting emotionally and music sounding accurately are two different things.

Accuracy is technically measured using tools and standards. However, some of the best measuring music systems out there can sometimes just sound very technical. Great tools to evaluate audiophile accessories but not so great to enjoy music. The emotional involvement is only achieved by systems that can play at live-like volumes without harshness, portray rhythms and tempos accurately, and convey the artist's intent for mood and expression, allowing the listener to be swept up in the emotional artistry of the music. Also the timbre and tone needs to be right with all the micro and macro dynamics intact. The Absolute Sound magazine frames this goal as part of a quest for "believable musical performance". Not all great measuring systems can achieve this. Especially conveying the emotional artistry of the music!

While the above is an ideal situation, there are ways to achieve musical bliss with simple system too. Some great badly put together system with many "new kid on the block" components can sound crappy while a simple system that use timeless design principles will sound like "music" although it will not impress you with great scale or big dynamics. All these coexist within the audiophile hobby.

 

[reignofchaos]

Alright. Ivam not going into objective nitigrity of class A vs Class D. I am still in the subjective domain. Do you always have to listen to Lata or Rafi in a high- end setup to be emotionally charged or does even a simple BT speaker invoke the emotions in you? I am asking you because you are an expert in emotion quotient. If even a simple setup can make you emotionally charged then you won't need any of these gadgets. Most musicians have a very simple setup at their home because what gives them the kick of good music is different from you and probably me too.
Your analogy of accuracy is different than mine. What I meant by accuracy is not objective parameters but subjective only. Lata and Rafi should sound accurate for their tonality and scale and their voice should not be coloured. An emotional connect can still be achieved if the song is good, the music is good, the recording is good and the hardware is suboptimal like a cheap BT speaker. Accuracy will be achieved if only everything is good/ accurate.

No a simple BT speaker doesn't do it for me. Else we won't even be having this conversation. Neither are Lata and Rafi my reference for good recordings.

Also how do you define accuracy here? What is your reference? Is it measurements as you sure can't get Lata and Rafi to perform in your room any more. How then do you know what the tonal character of their voice in your room will be?