My experience with equipment Isolation and final implementation plan

[Hari Iyer]

I have been working with equipment isolation for the past 2 years and after analyzing various methods for different gears will be finally settling down with implementing what worked best for me. I believe that isolation has two major components to be addressed - mass and spring to have better vibration control. IMO achieving isolation on all the three axes will be difficult if not impossible. I have plan to isolate the following components in my chain with final implementation -

1. Blueray Player - I have tried to keep this player on top of a spring loaded table and found good results with them. But i shall finally use my own diy roller ball and will add a granite slab on top of the roller ball for the mass part. I shall add a bicycle tube on top of the granite and inflate them around 50% and keep a wooden block on top of the bicycle tube. This is for the spring part. Will keep the Blue-ray player on top of the wooden plank.

2. Tube amplifier - This will be similar to the Blueray play with no changes. Instead of the roller ball will add spikes on which the granite will rest.

3. Turntable - I initally used my diy roller ball and found that to be not suitable for turntable. The turntable is a suspension type and already has the springs in them for the platter suspension. So adding one more spring will cancel the effect. So i am planning to remove the stock feet and replace them with a platic spike type feet to make it a low compliance but not rubbery feet. Spikes could have been added but i found the plastic feet to do the job better than the spikes and it offers a very low compliant solution.

Currently too many other things are happening in parallel and will start this after a month or two and post images once completed.

 

[firearm12]

Keeping an eye on this thread. In my system i have tried lot of ways of isolation (wood,rubber, rubber-wood sandwiches, cork, metal, coins) but nothing really worked, i always reverted to stock feet, never liked the sound with isolation, so maybe i can learn something here.

 

[shafic]

Hi Hari,
I have tried many types of isolation feet in my TTs and other stuff like amps and CD players.

I realized that 3 point isolation method gives much better stability and improvement in quality of sound than the 4 point isolation. The feet should form a perfect equilateral triangle. The size of the triangle will depend on the size of the device.
One can use any decent quality feet in their devices.
My opinion is that even humble good quality soft rubber feet work very well.

I have started using 3 point isolation in all my devices.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Keeping an eye on this thread. In my system i have tried lot of ways of isolation (wood,rubber, rubber-wood sandwiches, cork, metal, coins) but nothing really worked, i always reverted to stock feet, never liked the sound with isolation, so maybe i can learn something here.

IME rubber or foam don't isolate much. It's more of a placebo. I have done water ripple test by adding coloured water in a cup and placed them on top of my amplifier and gently tapped the rack to notice water ripples. In both case before and after adding rubber or foam the water ripple was same.

Hi Hari,
I have tried many types of isolation feet in my TTs and other stuff like amps and CD players.

I realized that 3 point isolation method gives much better stability and improvement in quality of sound than the 4 point isolation. The feet should form a perfect equilateral triangle. The size of the triangle will depend on the size of the device.
One can use any decent quality feet in their devices.
My opinion is that even humble good quality soft rubber feet work very well.

I have started using 3 point isolation in all my devices.

If I add 3 point isolation then I will put them below my granite and still have 4 rubber or plastic feet below my turntable for the low compliance.

 

[firearm12]

IME rubber or foam don't isolate much. It's more of a placebo. I have done water ripple test by adding coloured water in a cup and placed them on top of my amplifier and gently tapped the rack to notice water ripples. In both case before and after adding rubber or foam the water ripple was same.

Ok, any idea what could be best way to isolate stacked equipment like i keep my dac on top of preamp, i tried little wood blocks below dac feet but they do tend to lighten the sound especially mids. My dac is also very heavy around 17kg. I know its not ideal situation and an audiorack is a must in my case but i will get thrown out of house if i get that and so its better to compromise with sound, still trying to find if i can get some improvement without substantial damage to aesthetics

 

[Hari Iyer]

Ok, any idea what could be best way to isolate stacked equipment like i keep my dac on top of preamp, i tried little wood blocks below dac feet but they do tend to lighten the sound especially mids. My dac is also very heavy around 17kg. I know its not ideal situation and an audiorack is a must in my case but i will get thrown out of house if i get that and so its better to compromise with sound, still trying to find if i can get some improvement without substantial damage to aesthetics

Try sound foundation's roller block on an equilateral triangle if that helps. You will need to discover what works best for you. You can try the water ripple test or may be check with the accelrometer app available in the mobile app store.

 

[jls001]

I find getting the right amount of "springiness" tough when I experimented with springs under my TT (very heavy plinth made of multiple layers of Baltic birch plywood). If the spring is too soft it just compresses under the weight and no longer behaves like a spring as it should. If the spring is harder then it produces too much bounce. The trick was to tightly insert just the right amount of foam rubber inside a hard spring to dampen it.

Another very real struggle was finding the right locations to place the springs since the TT has very uneven weight distribution. A TT must be level for the cartridge to track properly. It took lots of experimentation to level the turntable.

 

[renjith lal]

IME rubber or foam don't isolate much. It's more of a placebo. I have done water ripple test by adding coloured water in a cup and placed them on top of my amplifier and gently tapped the rack to notice water ripples. In both case before and after adding rubber or foam the water ripple was same.

I liked your idea of testing the isolation system by ripple test. This will give a clear idea how effective the isolation system you tried.
Now I have a question in general, one should approach vibration control after taking care of power related stuff ( EMI/RF and proper current flow) and room acoustics or it can be started at any time?


Vibration control option is slightly cheaper compared to power conditioning and cables I guess. Isoacoustics is a good ready made solution I guess, did any one try?

 

[firearm12]

I have also noticed isolation affects laptop also for someone like me who is using laptop to play via usb. Sound changes depending on where i have placed my laptop. Same i can sense for digione signature i own. Using a Stethoscope or a vibration testing app is also a nice way to know how much disturbance is there an equipment. I also believe most of the vibration happen due to humming of components such as transformers from inside the equipment. This could also be one reason battery powered equipment may sound better.

VIBRATION: ORIGINS, EFFECTS, SOLUTIONS | Galen Carol Audio | Galen Carol Audio

How vibration can negatively impact our systems and how to combat it

www.gcaudio.com

 

[Hari Iyer]

I liked your idea of testing the isolation system by ripple test. This will give a clear idea how effective the isolation system you tried.
Now I have a question in general, one should approach vibration control after taking care of power related stuff ( EMI/RF and proper current flow) and room acoustics or it can be started at any time?


Vibration control option is slightly cheaper compared to power conditioning and cables I guess. Isoacoustics is a good ready made solution I guess, did any one try?

All these mods like vibration control and cable changes makes sense if you have got all other things like source, amplifier, speakers and room placement sorted out first. The mods with isolation and cables imo will be very subtle in nature and your setup needs to be resolved to identify these changes. Maybe you may need some kind of trained ears to notice them too. Unless the basics are taken care of first heading for these changes will be a futile exercise and waste of time and money.

I find getting the right amount of "springiness" tough when I experimented with springs under my TT (very heavy plinth made of multiple layers of Baltic birch plywood). If the spring is too soft it just compresses under the weight and no longer behaves like a spring as it should. If the spring is harder then it produces too much bounce. The trick was to tightly insert just the right amount of foam rubber inside a hard spring to dampen it.

Another very real struggle was finding the right locations to place the springs since the TT has very uneven weight distribution. A TT must be level for the cartridge to track properly. It took lots of experimentation to level the turntable.

Thanks for your insights. Luckily in my case the springs will not be required below the turntable as it's a suspension type turntable. I may just need to ensure low compliance feet so that they are rigidly coupling the base. The vibration will be addressed by the suspension itself.

 

[firearm12]

All these mods like vibration control and cable changes makes sense if you have got all other things like source, amplifier, speakers and room placement sorted out first. The mods with isolation and cables imo will be very subtle in nature and your setup needs to be resolved to identify these changes. Maybe you may need some kind of trained ears to notice them too. Unless the basics are taken care of first heading for these changes will be a futile exercise and waste of time and money.

In my case its not very suble. Even my other system marantz pm8003 + dali mentor menuet suffers from it. The day i moved my amp from a wooden table to a glass shelf based rack, everything about sound missed the point. Notes became shrilling and voices thinnned. Even my mom noticed what happened to sound. In short it became unlistenable for couple of days until i placed four 2 inch wood blocks below my amplifier. Also i think its not about vibration 'isolation', its more about vibration effects on sound and so tuning it to suit our needs. Do you think our systems will sound bette rif they float in air. I doubt so.

 

[renjith lal]

All these mods like vibration control and cable changes makes sense if you have got all other things like source, amplifier, speakers and room placement sorted out first. The mods with isolation and cables imo will be very subtle in nature and your setup needs to be resolved to identify these changes. Maybe you may need some kind of trained ears to notice them too. Unless the basics are taken care of first heading for these changes will be a futile exercise and waste of time and money.

I agree with your point, one need to take care of placement of speakers, source and amp before considering or addressing power and vibration control.

 

[jls001]

Thanks for your insights. Luckily in my case the springs will not be required below the turntable as it's a suspension type turntable. I may just need to ensure low compliance feet so that they are rigidly coupling the base. The vibration will be addressed by the suspension itself.

Yes, it is difficult to improve upon the in built-in springs of a spring suspended TT because they are tuned for the specific resonance frequency of mass it suspends in accordance with the weight distribution. A simple test: firmly push down the platter of your TT (while it is at rest) and release it immediately. Observe how many times it bounces. About three bounces is recommended for the Link Sondek (this number may vary on other models). If the number of bounces is more than what is recommended for your specific model it means the damping foam may have degraded, etc. If the number of bounces is too less, it's over damping.

But I believe even spring suspended TTs need a sturdy rack/platform to sound best.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Yes, I have seen that if the bounce is more then the platter wobbles which is a more serious issue. I have kept the bounce only to 2 as this is the best compromise on platter wobble and vibration. Better vibration control can be obtained by using low compliance feet in my case.