My home theatre setup...your views please

[koushikp]

Hi prasad and particleman,

please forgive my ignorance, but i didnt fully understand the point about multichannel playback..i was under the impression that i can connect the dv89 through coaxial or optical cable to the receiver and the receiver will drive the 5.1 system, so why is there a need for 6 wires?

 

[pnredkar]

Hi prasad and particleman,

please forgive my ignorance, but i didnt fully understand the point about multichannel playback..i was under the impression that i can connect the dv89 through coaxial or optical cable to the receiver and the receiver will drive the 5.1 system, so why is there a need for 6 wires?

Co-axial and Optical cable do not have the adequate bandwidth to support the data-rates of SACD and DVD-Audio.

Regards,
Prasad Redkar.

 

[pnredkar]

PNRedkar raises a good point about hi-def audio. Note that the Marantz does not do DSD over HDMI (found in v1.2, while the 4002 is v1.1 and v1.3 repeating) so decoding will be done by the player. On the other hand, the Marantz does support 7.1 LPCM so you are in better hands for BluRay. The Cambridge DVD89 is also a HDMI 1.1 device so it will output SACD/DVD-A in analog mode only. Its quality is fair but not outstanding as Prasad has rightly pointed out. Its a good all-in-one solution but you can do better with separate DVD and SACD players.

Hi,

If I am not mistaken, DVD-Audio records data in LPCM format. Hence HDMI 1.1 can support it natively. SACD records data in DSD format. The support for DSD over HDMI is present in HDMI version 1.2 onwards. However, most players can convert DSD to LPCM without (?debatable?, and I am not the expert) perceptible loss of resolution to allow it to stream over HDMI 1.1 also. I think the DV89 takes this path.

Regards,
Prasad Redkar.

 

[particleman]

To add to what Prasad has stated, if you want multichannel high-definition audio data over a single cable then this is only supported by HDMI 1.2 and upwards. HDMI 1.2 supports multichannel DSD (for SACD) but it depends on device support as well. Your player should output DSD over HDMI and your receiver should be able to decode DSD received over HDMI. Another point to watch out for is that just because a device claims to have HDMI 1.2 or 1.3 connections does not mean it will support every feature in that standard. Each revision of HDMI adds new features but a device need not support every feature defined therein to call itself a HDMI 1.x device. So check that your AVR supports it. As for DVD-A I do not think it is supported by HDMI but then I am not too familiar with it.

In any case, as you are most likely aware, when the data is passed digitally whether by HDMI or co-axial/optical cable, the audio is decoded by your AV receiver. More specifically the DAC in your AVR. If your player has a better DAC (e.g. Marantz SA-7001) and other components, then you should leave decoding to it and use analogue cables. Just be sure to use high-quality cables and you should have excellent musical performance.

 

[particleman]

If I am not mistaken, DVD-Audio records data in LPCM format. Hence HDMI 1.1 can support it natively. SACD records data in DSD format. The support for DSD over HDMI is present in HDMI version 1.2 onwards. However, most players can convert DSD to LPCM without (?debatable?, and I am not the expert) perceptible loss of resolution to allow it to stream over HDMI 1.1 also. I think the DV89 takes this path.

DVD-A is stored in MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing). I expect the player decodes and sends it out as LPCM over HDMI since 1.1 and up support multichannel PCM. In the real world however, SACD is far more popular so this point may not be too important. I would prefer the analogue route however, as I said in my previous post, as a good player is likely to have superior decoding.

 

[pnredkar]

DVD-A is stored in MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing). I expect the player decodes and sends it out as LPCM over HDMI since 1.1 and up support multichannel PCM.

My mistake. Yes, DVD-Audio stores it in MLP format. However, I think (important word!, I will find reference when I have time) that the decoding from MLP to LPCM is lossless. Hence, HDMI ver 1.1 can transfer DVD-Audio data without any loss.

HDMI was revised to version 1.2 to specifically add DSD support. The Oppo's that are HDMI version 1.1 still plays SACD via HDMI by converting the signal to LPCM.

To koushikp: Sorry we are deviating from the original topic. However, this may just help you not to make wrong choice by selecting wrong set of components.

- Prasad.

 

[koushikp]

to prasad & particleman: thanks guys i dont think u r deviating at all, I need to understand the intricacies of choosing a receiver so that i dont make a mistake..after all this is at least a 5-6 year investment for me..I am slightly technically challenged in hi-fi matters but if I will try to summarize what i understood from the discussion above:

a) to listen to good multichannel playback, I should ideally have receiver with 1.2 HDMI with support for audio decoding through the HDMI cable.
b) If the receiver does not have 1.2 hdmi or higher, my player DAC should be good enough to make the conversion with minimum distortion
c)In case of analog output for multichannel audio better have 5/6 good quality analog wires going into the receiver from the player (I dont mind) this should ensure good performance as long as the player is good enough.

Also, In case I get a receiver with hdmi 1.1, that should not be a problem when I buy a Blue Ray player (I will within a year)..or do i need a special feature in the receiver for it?

Also, I had put up a post about the suitability of the CA540 receiver with the Mordaunt-Shorts in what hifi, as they mention in every mordaunt-short review that they need to partnered extremely carefully..Andy Clough replied that he felt the CA was fine, but I should also look at the Onkyo 505/605..I have great respect for the "what hifi" team, but it seems they are mentioning the Onkyo receivers with every damn speaker..Are they really that good? I always thought the CA would be better for stereo playback and I think thats really where the holes in the A/V receiver come out...When you are immersed inside a lot of ambient noise in a movie i dont know whether I would notice sound quality over a particular threshold..ur views please

 

[spirovious]

Speaker choice is ok ,but if you want good AVR then go for Onkyo 505 or 605
They have won awards of whathifi.

606 even have Dolby truHD, master DTs codecs so newer sound format.
HDMI also.

 

[pnredkar]

b) If the receiver does not have 1.2 hdmi or higher, my player DAC should be good enough to make the conversion with minimum distortion

I feel that hdmi 1.1 is sufficient for music even though it does not do DSD natively. Particleman differs from me on this point.

Also, I had put up a post about the suitability of the CA540 receiver with the Mordaunt-Shorts in what hifi, as they mention in every mordaunt-short review that they need to partnered extremely carefully..Andy Clough replied that he felt the CA was fine, but I should also look at the Onkyo 505/605..I have great respect for the "what hifi" team, but it seems they are mentioning the Onkyo receivers with every damn speaker..Are they really that good? I always thought the CA would be better for stereo playback and I think thats really where the holes in the A/V receiver come out...When you are immersed inside a lot of ambient noise in a movie i dont know whether I would notice sound quality over a particular threshold..ur views please

Cambridge Audio and Mordaunt Short are related companies. Generally their products partner each other beautifully. About Onkyo, they won all the What Hi-Fi awards in the AV receiver category this year. However, many people in the British forum (avforums.com) do not agree with these awards.

I find it difficult to believe Onkyo being better than Marantz or CA for music. Having said that, my impression are due to listening to the older Onkyo's (*04 or older). There are people who report that the *05 series (specifically the 805 onwards and the 705 marginally) are much better. I cannot confirm this personally. So best way is to audition and get your own impressions.

BTW the Onkyo *06 series specifically the 506, 576 and 606 will be released soon. The higher *06 series will take some more time.

 

[particleman]

Not much to add to what PNRedkar has already written. Just one clarification: I am not suggesting you go for a receiver with HDMI 1.1 or 1.3 -- because I personally favour the analogue route for music. I value the player's DAC and output more than that of an AVR. So you can get whatever version of HDMI that matters to you (based on other devices you will be using). I think Marantz and CA are the better options at this budget for music. Yamaha and Onkyo have more features but I don't like the former for music. The latest Onkyo line seems great but I have not heard it (605,705,etc) but there have been some complaints of overheating and such so please investigate.

About the speakers, yes you would notice the difference between them. A good speaker set will create a seamless soundfield around you with no gaps between speakers. Also, quality of spoken words and dynamic range would be some of the things you'd notice. I think the recommendation of the Onkyo by What HiFi mag must have been based on movies rather than music. Choose the speakers first and then decide on the AVR based on what you like regardless of other opinions. Mordaunt Short speakers pair well with both Cambridge Audio and Marantz (but as PNRedkar mentioned, better with the former since they are sister companies).

 

[koushikp]

Hi,

audiotioned the MS speakers on the Onkyo 575...not impressed at all... there was no apparent audible lack in music clarity and quality, but listen to it for 10 mins and you will feel that somebody has pricked your ears, my wife got a headache listening to them...probably the Onkyo is making it brighter, and the MS is already on the bright side...I hope it was due to the receiver only, I am going again to listen to the speakers for an hour on the cambridge...lets see how it goes, will keep you guys posted

 

[particleman]

This is why matching speakers to the AVR/amp is important. Yes, the MS speakers are a bit bright or rather bold. However the Cambridge Audio amp has a bit of a warm sound and so there is balance when the two are paired. I like the MS speakers because they work well for movies as well. They pair best with CA and Marantz. With a bright amp, look at warm speakers like Wharfedale Diamonds.

Do take your own music to the auditions rather than their test tracks so you can see how each speaker interprets or presents it differently and which one is to your liking.

 

[koushikp]

spent some time with the MS speakers yesterday with the cambridge amp..quite impressed...yes it is still slightly bright..but it can be easily corrected by toning down the amp a little on the treble...very very open and clear sound, the quality that I liked most...but I grant that the speakers may be a little bold for many people's taste, thats why probably the wharfedales are more popular...will spend some with the wharfedales before finalising....