My new HT setup with Rs.2.5 Lakhs

if u cud wait for a while

chk out

Emotiva UMC-1 pre/processor , @ a very good price

also chk out Marantz AV 8003 pre /pro

power amps cud always be added slowly

with this u wudnt waste on the AVRs amps

and this will serve you with excellent results with music and movies

with a pre /pro u are not stuck up ,options are multiple

Thanks. Please forgive my ignorance on amp/pre-amp/pre-processor. I only had a very little knowledge about AVRs that too were not accurate after little exploration.

Initially I thought AVRs are THE amplifiers to go with any player (DVD/CD/BDP etc.). After that I learnt that power amp is needed to improve the performance of AVR. Now, one more is added - Pre processor and I really don't know anything about it. Could you please explain (if possible in a lay man's term) me about the exact role/necessity of each of these components - AVR (!), Power Amp , Pre processor and Pre-amp? Please bear with my ignorance and for these very basic questions.

Thanks in advance.

Regards
 
Mr Periyar,

OPTION1

If you want only two floor-standers and one subwoofer with low bass from front speaker as you wanted you could go for

FOR( 2+1+1)

Focal-Chorus(Front)-826v From Focal(JM Labs,France)-250W(power RMS)
MRP Rs 1,18,000/pair

Chorus CC 800V(Center) 200 W--MRP--Rs 31,500/-

Subwoofer Chorus SW 800V 500W MRP Rs 63000/

Amplifier Denon AVR-3310 105W MRP Rs 99,000/-

Option 2
FOR (5.1 + AMP)
Even IQ 90s can match for your requirement its a 3-way speaker which means more detailed sound distribution. for that system the best suitable sub would be PRO-600 with 12" drive. And the suitable amplifier would be Denon Avr-2310 which has got very good features in it like it supports true HD,DTS Master Audio, its even got RS-232 which you could use it for home automation for audio and video.It has got very good up scaling facility.It has got pre-out. The whole package would cost you around Rs-2,46,00/-


As far as USHER DANCER MINI is concerned its only 2-way speaker , power handling is very less is around 90w, it has got one high frequency driver and one mid frequency where as KEF has got one High ,one mid and low frequency drivers with very good wattage,


You could have audition for Focal in the same PROFX showroom at M G ROAD.
CHEERS:)

More may not always be better! Quality vs. quantity. You have given him a good option but it still lacks a good stereo amp.
 
Mr Periyar,

OPTION1

If you want only two floor-standers and one subwoofer with low bass from front speaker as you wanted you could go for

FOR( 2+1+1)

Focal-Chorus(Front)-826v From Focal(JM Labs,France)-250W(power RMS)
MRP Rs 1,18,000/pair

Chorus CC 800V(Center) 200 W--MRP--Rs 31,500/-

Subwoofer Chorus SW 800V 500W MRP Rs 63000/

Amplifier Denon AVR-3310 105W MRP Rs 99,000/-

Option 2
FOR (5.1 + AMP)
Even IQ 90s can match for your requirement its a 3-way speaker which means more detailed sound distribution. for that system the best suitable sub would be PRO-600 with 12" drive. And the suitable amplifier would be Denon Avr-2310 which has got very good features in it like it supports true HD,DTS Master Audio, its even got RS-232 which you could use it for home automation for audio and video.It has got very good up scaling facility.It has got pre-out. The whole package would cost you around Rs-2,46,00/-


As far as USHER DANCER MINI is concerned its only 2-way speaker , power handling is very less is around 90w, it has got one high frequency driver and one mid frequency where as KEF has got one High ,one mid and low frequency drivers with very good wattage,


You could have audition for Focal in the same PROFX showroom at M G ROAD.
CHEERS:)

Thanks for the detailed reply and options. Let me try to get one more audition with focals at ProFX.
 
I think you need to follow the suggestion of AVR + Stereo AMP.

For AVR you need one with preouts. The cheapest amongst the midrange to have the preouts are Yamaha 665 & 765 or the Marantz 5004. This you can combine with a 5.1 system of Energy Take, Wharfedale 10HCP etc. Thus your HT setup is done for 65k.

Now 1.6 Lacs you can get yourself a pair of Front Speakers, Stereo Amp and CDP. This will give you a dedicated music setup as well as 7.1 system for movies.
 
Are you sure?


I've just checked out at ProFX site and downloaded the 2310 manual. It says under the OUT section. Audio Preout (zone2/7.1) x 2. Is this the one are we looking for - as pre-outs?

Also, the picture clearly shows pre-outs 7.1 in the back panel :yahoo:

As Ajinkya mentioned that there seems to be difference between USA model 2310ci and Asian model 2310.

Anyway, I'm planning to make one more trip to ProFX for Focal speaker audition. Let me check it out.
 
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I think you need to follow the suggestion of AVR + Stereo AMP.

For AVR you need one with preouts. The cheapest amongst the midrange to have the preouts are Yamaha 665 & 765 or the Marantz 5004. This you can combine with a 5.1 system of Energy Take, Wharfedale 10HCP etc. Thus your HT setup is done for 65k.

Now 1.6 Lacs you can get yourself a pair of Front Speakers, Stereo Amp and CDP. This will give you a dedicated music setup as well as 7.1 system for movies.

Thanks. I am certainly convinced on the Stereo amp part. That's why now we are discussing the pre-out availability in the AVRs. If its confirmed that Denon 2310 has got (it seem so :D) the necessary pre-outs, I would like to finalize the AVR as a first step.

Then let me go one by one at a time. Power Amp (stereo initially) then front speakers then sub .. Obviously the center should go along with the fronts.

I'd appreciate if I get some idea/inputs on the power amps and front speakers now.

Regards
 
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Even if Denon 2310 has pre-outs in the Asian Models it will cost you around 53k. You can easily save 15-20k on the AVR by going for Yamaha or Marantz. Since the AVR will not drive the fronts, higher end model will not be needed.

Thanks. I am certainly convinced on the Stereo amp part. That's why now we are discussing the pre-out availability in the AVRs. If its confirmed that Denon 2310 has got (it seem so :D) the necessary pre-outs, I would like to finalize the AVR as a first step.

Regards
 
Mr Sgmrao
Giving options are ok, however, what is the connection between power handling of a speaker and the speaker sounding good? are you saying that the more drivers a speaker uses, the better it will sound?
 
Hi Periyar
There have been a lot of suggestions - can you tell me now (if you have done some thinking) as to how important HT is to you? Is HT secondary? Are you keen on a receiver or is that secondary? Will you be happy with a 2 or a 2.1 option for movies? If anything in your requirements/needs has changed it would be easier to narrow down to a solution. Otherwise as you can see the options are endless and all over the place.

cheers
Sridhar
 
Mr Periyar,

OPTION1

If you want only two floor-standers and one subwoofer with low bass from front speaker as you wanted you could go for

FOR( 2+1+1)

Focal-Chorus(Front)-826v From Focal(JM Labs,France)-250W(power RMS)
MRP Rs 1,18,000/pair

Chorus CC 800V(Center) 200 W--MRP--Rs 31,500/-

Subwoofer Chorus SW 800V 500W MRP Rs 63000/

Amplifier Denon AVR-3310 105W MRP Rs 99,000/-

Option 2
FOR (5.1 + AMP)
Even IQ 90s can match for your requirement its a 3-way speaker which means more detailed sound distribution. for that system the best suitable sub would be PRO-600 with 12" drive. And the suitable amplifier would be Denon Avr-2310 which has got very good features in it like it supports true HD,DTS Master Audio, its even got RS-232 which you could use it for home automation for audio and video.It has got very good up scaling facility.It has got pre-out. The whole package would cost you around Rs-2,46,00/-


As far as USHER DANCER MINI is concerned its only 2-way speaker , power handling is very less is around 90w, it has got one high frequency driver and one mid frequency where as KEF has got one High ,one mid and low frequency drivers with very good wattage,


You could have audition for Focal in the same PROFX showroom at M G ROAD.
CHEERS:)

the focal chorus 826 @ profx is no match for the ushers
 
Thanks. Please forgive my ignorance on amp/pre-amp/pre-processor. I only had a very little knowledge about AVRs that too were not accurate after little exploration.

Initially I thought AVRs are THE amplifiers to go with any player (DVD/CD/BDP etc.). After that I learnt that power amp is needed to improve the performance of AVR. Now, one more is added - Pre processor and I really don't know anything about it. Could you please explain (if possible in a lay man's term) me about the exact role/necessity of each of these components - AVR (!), Power Amp , Pre processor and Pre-amp? Please bear with my ignorance and for these very basic questions.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

in an AVR u have all in one ( power amps + pre amp+ processor+tuner)

pre /processor --is a dedicated unit with a preamp and a processor section ,without the power amps
the processor will do all the processing / decoding of all audio formats and also do video processing /upconversion via Hdmi
all u need to do here is add power amps to it , preferably individual poweramps

with a pre/pro you have all flexibilities @ will
and another added advantage is superior SQ in all aspects ,kind of pro set up:clapping:
 
Thanks. Please forgive my ignorance on amp/pre-amp/pre-processor. I only had a very little knowledge about AVRs that too were not accurate after little exploration.

Initially I thought AVRs are THE amplifiers to go with any player (DVD/CD/BDP etc.). After that I learnt that power amp is needed to improve the performance of AVR. Now, one more is added - Pre processor and I really don't know anything about it. Could you please explain (if possible in a lay man's term) me about the exact role/necessity of each of these components - AVR (!), Power Amp , Pre processor and Pre-amp? Please bear with my ignorance and for these very basic questions.

These questions have been answered many times in these forums. Let me recap them for you.

A single channel sound system has multiple stages. The first is the source. If we take an analogue system, we have players such as a TT or a tape drive that sends analogue signals out. These signals have very low strength measured in millivolts and cannot be used as such. In stage two, a pre-amplifier takes these low strength signals and processes them for stage three. This processing includes enhancing the signal strength and some filtration to 'clean' the signal so to say. A pre-amplifier will also be able to understand the signal strength of various source devices (such as a turntable and a tape drive), differentiate between them, and process them differently. The output of a pre amplifier will vary from a few volts to as much as 10 to 15 volts depending upon the volume you set.

The processed and enhanced signal is sent to a power amplifier which is the next stage. A power amplifier is the 'dumbest' of all the stages. All it does is to take the incoming signal, and add juice to it by appending current to it. An amplifier has a fixed strength enhancing capability - what is usually referred to as gain. If you give it 2 volts as input it will output say 20 volts. If you want more output, you increase the input signal strength.

In the final stage, these signals are sent to the speaker for you to hear as sound.

This is the simplest of a sound system using a single channel analogue circuitry. In a stereo system, the complete circuitry is duplicated at each stage for two channels.

We will add a few complications to this sound system.

(1) A few years ago, again in a purely analogue system, noise cancellation or suppression methodology was added by a company called Dolby. In an analogue system, the Dolby processing is done at the source stage, so there is not much work for the pre-amplifier.

(2) Sometime ago, Philips introduced a new method of storing sound - in digital form instead of analogue form. So instead of tape drive, you now had a CD drive. The CD stores data in digital form and the CD Player had to convert the digital signals to analogue (DAC) before sending them to the pre amplifier. Some designers felt that a pre-amplifier is better suited to do the DAC, so many pre-amplifiers can accept digital signals, do a DAC first, then all the processing we discussed above.

(3) When we ventured into multichannel audio for movies, storing them in digital form was the only option. You now needed 6 channels of sound to be processed, so a surround sound processor (SSP) was born to replace the pre-amplifier. In addition, SSPs also had to undertake a new task - that of processing the video signals in addition to the audio signals. A SSP can accept coded digital signals, decode them, separate audio and video signals, do a DAC on each channel, and process each channel for further amplification.

The amplifier continues to be dumb. Now it amplifies upto 8 channels in a multi channel system as against two channels in a stereo system.

Pre amplifiers and SSP process sound in different ways. This has more to do with the final reqirement than any technology. In movies, the emphasis is on 'loudness' with a enhancement of low frequencies. Thus a SSP would focus on this and could even add a bit of distortion as the volume levels go up.

A stereo or musical pre-amplifier, on the other hand, will focus on delivery of clear and undistorted sound across the complete frequency range.

If you like music, using an AVR as a pre-processor and then amplifying it for music will not make much sense. As I said before, an amplifier is a dumb unit and all the important processing is done by the pre-amplifier or surround processor.

Cheers
 
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As far as USHER DANCER MINI is concerned its only 2-way speaker , power handling is very less is around 90w, it has got one high frequency driver and one mid frequency where as KEF has got one High ,one mid and low frequency drivers with very good wattage,

So wattage and number of drivers according to you is all that matters in a speaker? Bravo :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
"If you like music, using an AVR as a pre-processor and then amplifying it for music will not make much sense. As I said before, an amplifier is a dumb unit and all the important processing is done by the pre-amplifier or surround processor."

Venkat,

There are AVRs which have the ability to bypass all processing when listening to a two-channel source...so called source direct functions. I assume these can be used for music reproduction, through the preouts as well? Then there would be no loss of quality, as compared to a stereo preamp.
 
There are AVRs which have the ability to bypass all processing when listening to a two-channel source...so called source direct functions. I assume these can be used for music reproduction, through the preouts as well? Then there would be no loss of quality, as compared to a stereo preamp.

Yes, in a Stereo or Pure Direct mode, an AVR will certainly perform better as far as music goes. At the same time, the general feeling is that, because of the complex and large quantum of circuitry, and to keep prices reasonable, AVRs have to cut corners somewhere. Most audiophiles cringe away from AVRs citing this as a reason and saying a stereo pre-amp processes music in a more sophisticated and transparent manner.

There could also be some differences in the circuit design. Two channel pre-amp follow the path of minimal circuitry and have sophisticated feedback mechanism for removal of distortion. Higher up the value chain, a tube based system has even less circuitry.

I was referring to the basic differences in design as these products cater to different markets.

If you really are particular about music and want to do something about it, it will make more sense in improving the source and the pre-amplification. Not the amplification part of the chain.

Cheers
 
Hi Periyar
There have been a lot of suggestions - can you tell me now (if you have done some thinking) as to how important HT is to you? Is HT secondary? Are you keen on a receiver or is that secondary? Will you be happy with a 2 or a 2.1 option for movies? If anything in your requirements/needs has changed it would be easier to narrow down to a solution. Otherwise as you can see the options are endless and all over the place.

cheers
Sridhar

Hi Sridhar,

Good to see you here.

I am still learning the basics of audio equipments/components and try to map these inputs to my requirement to setup HT. Obviously I have started with setting up HT but after listening the Ushers at ARN with Stereo Amp, my perspective towards a typical 5.1 setup has changed.

I really need a little more time to settle down and meanwhile I would like to map/finalize few components required to meet my HT as well as musical needs. I am obviously looking for a balanced (if possible to get the best option available for HT 5.1 along with music/stereo abilities in my setup). I might sound greedy but I don't want regret it later and would like to find what are the available options.

Still I am inclined towards 5.1 setup for my HT and also would like to have very good fronts with stereo amp to drive for music.

As of now, the list might be,

AVR (Now it becomes a question after reading the Subhash & venkatcr latest post) or Will that be sufficient to go for Pre/processor + power amp instead of an AVR?

Fronts - Floorstanders : I would like to explore if its possible to get something close to Usher with lesser price

Upon finalizing the above two in my list, may be I would like to think about Center and Sub as required.

Maybe once I'm clear with all these various audio components by reading our forum members suggestions/inputs and exploring, I may need to add/replace few components in list before I finalize.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards,
 
in an AVR u have all in one ( power amps + pre amp+ processor+tuner)

pre /processor --is a dedicated unit with a preamp and a processor section ,without the power amps
the processor will do all the processing / decoding of all audio formats and also do video processing /upconversion via Hdmi
all u need to do here is add power amps to it , preferably individual poweramps

with a pre/pro you have all flexibilities @ will
and another added advantage is superior SQ in all aspects ,kind of pro set up:clapping:

Subhash -

Thanks for the explanation. Does that mean I don't need an AVR at all. I can get Pre-processor + Power Amp (Stereo or more channel as required) and can use it for my HT (5/7.1 channels) needs as well as my musical needs (stereo mode)?
 
Yes, in a Stereo or Pure Direct mode, an AVR will certainly perform better as far as music goes. At the same time, the general feeling is that, because of the complex and large quantum of circuitry, and to keep prices reasonable, AVRs have to cut corners somewhere. Most audiophiles cringe away from AVRs citing this as a reason and saying a stereo pre-amp processes music in a more sophisticated and transparent manner.

There could also be some differences in the circuit design. Two channel pre-amp follow the path of minimal circuitry and have sophisticated feedback mechanism for removal of distortion. Higher up the value chain, a tube based system has even less circuitry.

I was referring to the basic differences in design as these products cater to different markets.

If you really are particular about music and want to do something about it, it will make more sense in improving the source and the pre-amplification. Not the amplification part of the chain.

Cheers

very true venkat , the only way to get the best out of music is a good source and having a seperate pre , coz the pre in avrs sound crappy for music, its best suited for movies
 
jai ho! :clapping:

:)

I don't want to sound rude or anything, but this:

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezw...cars_to_avoid_195x119_gallery_image_large.jpg

Must be far better than this:

http://tekekmeong.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/kawasaki-ninja-250-r.jpg

It has twice the number of wheels, twice the number of headlights, and twice the number of doors. And the engine will definitely have more cubic capacity - maybe 5 times more. That poor bike can only have 1300cc.

That was a little extreme, but power handling and number of drivers don't make any difference to the quality of a speaker.

You can make a necklace with a hundred glass beads and you can make one with a nice solitaire diamond. Which will be more expensive, which will be better admired and which would you want to gift your significant other?

Of course, the glass beads. There're more of them, and it'll probably be heavier as well. Would you care for me to take more examples of situations where quality is not the same as quantity?

As to your specific suggestion, the IQ90 is not even close to the sound quality of the BE-718, I would suggest you take an audition to hear the difference for yourself. The IQ90 reaches a little deeper in the bass because of its dual woofers, but the bass is woolly and loose. And in refinement and scale, it is left very far behind the BE-718. Once you start playing tracks with some decent midrange in them, the IQ90 is really not a contender.

Remember that KEF uses the exact same mid/tweeter (the Uni-Q driver) from the Rs. 30K IQ30 all the way up to the IQ90. In essence, that driver is meant for a 30K speaker, putting more drivers in is a way to bump up the price and only add bass. Don't get fooled by marketing gimmicks. You'll lose a lot of money that way.
 
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