Friends, thanks to all of your help, I finally procured the equipment that I "needed". I'm not sure what the gurus would make out of this - but here goes -
To help me decide between the speakers I had finalized, I took a home audition of KEF R700 (had bigger bass / presence than R500) and PSB Imagine T2 on the same day, separated by a mere half hour, playing from the same amp (my Yamaha DSP A2070) but using their own individual sources. Bluesound (i think) was used for the PSB and a Denon streamer was used with the KEFs. The cables were also different with possibly a better one used by the KEF team.
PSB Imagine T2 was soft and punchy, the way I liked it. However, my wife had noticed from our previous audition of T2, when I had taken her for "the wife approval", that the T2 was not sounding Tablas correctly. They sounded like soft thuds and almost unrecognizable as a Tabla. She noticed it because, the same day we had gone over to the proFX showroom to compare them to the KEF which was the other finalist, the Tabla had cleared up perfectly. So we were, specifically looking out for the Tabla this time, and I was hoping that perhaps it might clear up in my untreated room. But even in my room, the Tabla sounded the same - However other (definitely badly recorded) 70's Hindi songs which had mellowed down in the PSB audition room, now sounded harsh, like other speakers, I had listened to. It was as if untreated room brightened the only very high frequencies.
Next up what I noticed negatively about the T2 was the booming of these speakers with bass heavy tracks. The team who had brought them over did not have bungs or time to correct this for me. So that was the second and third strike against PSB. Looking back, I still feel had the Tablas sounded right, I might have gone in for the PSB despite them being priced 20K more than the KEF 700 & with a hope of the bungs correcting things for me. Looking back, I attribute the Tabla issue to bad positioning perhaps, which was found by others during some serious auditioning elsewhere on the internet.
Next up was KEF R700 - I was happy to notice that there was no booming of the bass at all with the KEF's though we had placed them in the corners. But I did realize, that despite being physically larger, compared to the T2, it does not go down as much. That was probably the reason they did not boom. The bass was 10-15% lesser than the PSB. The voicing was somewhat forward & ended up sounding somewhat hard on the ears, especially if you like to listen at higher volumes, in my case to get the bigger punches. These were the 2 reasons which had attracted me to the PSB's. There were no other issues with the KEF's, but I was obviously concerned enough to go hunting, though at the time I did not know quite how to describe it.
I realized from this experiment & all my readings so far that
1. Full range speakers cannot work by themselves in (my?) room corners and (my?) small rooms (beginnings of bass booming from PSB)
2. I might be able to correct the room output by using one or two subs but that basically means I lose almost all (except volume) the extra capability towers give.
3. Positioning a full range speaker without subs will be really hard given my space constricted / non-corrected Bangalore flat (13'/12' bedroom)
4. I will have to shell out much more money to reach a nearly full range tower (5000$ at least) to get full bass.
5. I will never have to go beyond 30-40% volume on my amp with a speaker like R700, due to fear of disturbing my neighbors.
So I went down to KEF showroom again the next day without my amp and listened to
1. KEF R700
2. KELF LS50 with a Polk Sub (due to the reasons 1-5 above)
I had not even looked at the LS50 the first time I walked into the proFX showroom a few months back since I wanted to own a 'big' speaker. I did later realize the LS50's are considered golden by many folks and even then I was not ready to drop my tower affection for their sheer bigness in all aspects. (the look, the volume, and the ego + wow factor)
But once I started to listen to the LS50 it was clear to me & my wife that this sound did not have any harshness at all. Neither where our tabla's muddied up. I felt actually relieved switching to the LS50 compared to the R700. They sounded neutral. I do not want to say "sweet" since I really do not think it sounded warm. I would more describe them as neutral. They were definitely not warm like the T2 which I will definitely miss. But no point getting warm and punchy and messing up basic sound textures we care about. I hope Mr. Paul Barton is listening.
Though the LS50 obviously could not go to the same volumes as R700, (unless I turned up the amp much higher)the voice was not at all forward or jarring. They were obviously very comfortable to the ears and obviously going to be restricted to the rooms for which I was going to get them. I will have to sell them once I move upto a hall. But accordingly, I could also see that it was not going to overpower my room. It was also pretty easy to understand that the sub went down a WAY lot than the KEF and I could place them where it sounded the best in my room.
After having listened to so many brands, I could understand that the LS50 was giving 'proper' voicing - It was not harsh nor forward nor utterly softened nor recessed. Not doubt being in the Stereophile's class A categorized equipment might also have given me the extra confidence to ease my purse strings.
So in the end, which was less than 20 minutes after I walked in, (compared to the usual 45-90 min sessions) I walked out, having purchased a pair of KEF LS50 and happy of having finally realized my 10 yr old hi-fi dream. I guess I will have to keep away my kiddish dream of owning a pair of full range floor standers for a MUCH bigger(or better layout) room/home to position them in - I do feel though that with this current system I might be getting my money's worth with their sub 40 reach and sweetness along with ease of positioning.
I will have to sacrifice the true stereo channel output with this setup, but I felt it was a much better compromise than fight against the realizations I had listed above.
Please accept my sincerest thanks and acknowledgments to everyone who commented and helped me out in myriad ways in this and the other threads I had created in my quest. Then again, all you friendly folks can expect a lot of stands, measurement, sub positioning theory doubts from me, going forward. Lots more to learn !!! I just hope I will go back to enjoying music rather than trying to evaluate the sound.
This hobby is truly addictive and if I ever build a home, I will consult folks here before deciding the layout
.
Happy listening.
Thanks
Arun
ps : A big shout out to the ProFX Mg road team here, especially Kaushik. They were, without a doubt the MOST friendly and professional and knowledgeable team to deal with. They had all the gears to do the job and run the comparisons too. These guys were accommodative of anything and everything I ever requested of them. I must have visited them at least 5 times since the KEF's was the reference against which I compared the others. But they never showed even a bit of irritation. Others were good and some others were downright pushy or pathetic but no one matched up to the ProFX team's class/accommodative nature. So a big thanks, guys !!!!.
To help me decide between the speakers I had finalized, I took a home audition of KEF R700 (had bigger bass / presence than R500) and PSB Imagine T2 on the same day, separated by a mere half hour, playing from the same amp (my Yamaha DSP A2070) but using their own individual sources. Bluesound (i think) was used for the PSB and a Denon streamer was used with the KEFs. The cables were also different with possibly a better one used by the KEF team.
PSB Imagine T2 was soft and punchy, the way I liked it. However, my wife had noticed from our previous audition of T2, when I had taken her for "the wife approval", that the T2 was not sounding Tablas correctly. They sounded like soft thuds and almost unrecognizable as a Tabla. She noticed it because, the same day we had gone over to the proFX showroom to compare them to the KEF which was the other finalist, the Tabla had cleared up perfectly. So we were, specifically looking out for the Tabla this time, and I was hoping that perhaps it might clear up in my untreated room. But even in my room, the Tabla sounded the same - However other (definitely badly recorded) 70's Hindi songs which had mellowed down in the PSB audition room, now sounded harsh, like other speakers, I had listened to. It was as if untreated room brightened the only very high frequencies.
Next up what I noticed negatively about the T2 was the booming of these speakers with bass heavy tracks. The team who had brought them over did not have bungs or time to correct this for me. So that was the second and third strike against PSB. Looking back, I still feel had the Tablas sounded right, I might have gone in for the PSB despite them being priced 20K more than the KEF 700 & with a hope of the bungs correcting things for me. Looking back, I attribute the Tabla issue to bad positioning perhaps, which was found by others during some serious auditioning elsewhere on the internet.
Next up was KEF R700 - I was happy to notice that there was no booming of the bass at all with the KEF's though we had placed them in the corners. But I did realize, that despite being physically larger, compared to the T2, it does not go down as much. That was probably the reason they did not boom. The bass was 10-15% lesser than the PSB. The voicing was somewhat forward & ended up sounding somewhat hard on the ears, especially if you like to listen at higher volumes, in my case to get the bigger punches. These were the 2 reasons which had attracted me to the PSB's. There were no other issues with the KEF's, but I was obviously concerned enough to go hunting, though at the time I did not know quite how to describe it.
I realized from this experiment & all my readings so far that
1. Full range speakers cannot work by themselves in (my?) room corners and (my?) small rooms (beginnings of bass booming from PSB)
2. I might be able to correct the room output by using one or two subs but that basically means I lose almost all (except volume) the extra capability towers give.
3. Positioning a full range speaker without subs will be really hard given my space constricted / non-corrected Bangalore flat (13'/12' bedroom)
4. I will have to shell out much more money to reach a nearly full range tower (5000$ at least) to get full bass.
5. I will never have to go beyond 30-40% volume on my amp with a speaker like R700, due to fear of disturbing my neighbors.
So I went down to KEF showroom again the next day without my amp and listened to
1. KEF R700
2. KELF LS50 with a Polk Sub (due to the reasons 1-5 above)
I had not even looked at the LS50 the first time I walked into the proFX showroom a few months back since I wanted to own a 'big' speaker. I did later realize the LS50's are considered golden by many folks and even then I was not ready to drop my tower affection for their sheer bigness in all aspects. (the look, the volume, and the ego + wow factor)
But once I started to listen to the LS50 it was clear to me & my wife that this sound did not have any harshness at all. Neither where our tabla's muddied up. I felt actually relieved switching to the LS50 compared to the R700. They sounded neutral. I do not want to say "sweet" since I really do not think it sounded warm. I would more describe them as neutral. They were definitely not warm like the T2 which I will definitely miss. But no point getting warm and punchy and messing up basic sound textures we care about. I hope Mr. Paul Barton is listening.
Though the LS50 obviously could not go to the same volumes as R700, (unless I turned up the amp much higher)the voice was not at all forward or jarring. They were obviously very comfortable to the ears and obviously going to be restricted to the rooms for which I was going to get them. I will have to sell them once I move upto a hall. But accordingly, I could also see that it was not going to overpower my room. It was also pretty easy to understand that the sub went down a WAY lot than the KEF and I could place them where it sounded the best in my room.
After having listened to so many brands, I could understand that the LS50 was giving 'proper' voicing - It was not harsh nor forward nor utterly softened nor recessed. Not doubt being in the Stereophile's class A categorized equipment might also have given me the extra confidence to ease my purse strings.
So in the end, which was less than 20 minutes after I walked in, (compared to the usual 45-90 min sessions) I walked out, having purchased a pair of KEF LS50 and happy of having finally realized my 10 yr old hi-fi dream. I guess I will have to keep away my kiddish dream of owning a pair of full range floor standers for a MUCH bigger(or better layout) room/home to position them in - I do feel though that with this current system I might be getting my money's worth with their sub 40 reach and sweetness along with ease of positioning.
I will have to sacrifice the true stereo channel output with this setup, but I felt it was a much better compromise than fight against the realizations I had listed above.
Please accept my sincerest thanks and acknowledgments to everyone who commented and helped me out in myriad ways in this and the other threads I had created in my quest. Then again, all you friendly folks can expect a lot of stands, measurement, sub positioning theory doubts from me, going forward. Lots more to learn !!! I just hope I will go back to enjoying music rather than trying to evaluate the sound.
This hobby is truly addictive and if I ever build a home, I will consult folks here before deciding the layout
. Happy listening.
Thanks
Arun
ps : A big shout out to the ProFX Mg road team here, especially Kaushik. They were, without a doubt the MOST friendly and professional and knowledgeable team to deal with. They had all the gears to do the job and run the comparisons too. These guys were accommodative of anything and everything I ever requested of them. I must have visited them at least 5 times since the KEF's was the reference against which I compared the others. But they never showed even a bit of irritation. Others were good and some others were downright pushy or pathetic but no one matched up to the ProFX team's class/accommodative nature. So a big thanks, guys !!!!.
