Nikon 3100 or Canon1100d

[ajay124]

Bought the D5100

The buyback of my D40 was linked to the purchase of a new camera. The dealer was expecting delivery of D90 in a few weeks time but was making no commitments. The D5100 was available in ready stock. Prices for the D90 and D5100 for the body only were 38K and 34K respectively. The former offered a better built body and the latter a picture quality which is rumored to be very close to that of D7000. Initially I did not like the feel of the D5100 in my hands. It felt to lightweight and small. The 3" articulated screen took up a lot of real estate and everything else had a squeezed in feel. But after an hour of handling everything started falling in place. The menu settings on the screen are easy to access, the viewfinder is decent and the resolution of the screen is superb.

The turning point for me was the magnificent picture quality. A few casual shots made it evident that the D5100 completely outclasses the D40. On neutral image setting the D5100 produces the most natural colors and grain free pictures that I have ever seen. I compared it to pictures taken with the D90 with the same lens and more or less similar conditions and settings and found the D5100 picture quality to be far superior. I have only shot a few pics with the D90 and many with the D40, but neither camera seems to reproduce colors with the uncanny accuracy which the D5100 exhibits. At 800 ISO both D40 and D90 are far more noisy than the D5100 is at ISO1600. My impressions of D90's picture quality are too hurried and basic to be taken seriously. But they did help me to make up my mind.

Today the sun was out and I went to a park and shot a few pics at 100 ISO. Used A,P, and S modes. White balance at the sunshine settings. Used the 55-200mm zoom with a UV filter. The caliber of my shooting was still at an abysmal level but the hardware performed marvelously well! The D5100+35mm f/1.8+55-200mm VR completes my set up and I love it! I have promised myself a D7000 when I start shooting decent pics but that happy day resides in the distant future!

My first bird shoot! | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[Asit]

Ajay,

A very hearty congratulations to you on the D5100 and the lenses. It's an excellent camera. BTW, you can use auto white balance and these modern cameras adjusts to the correct white balance pretty accurately.

The only thing you may miss and may require in future is a wide enough (15mm to 18mm) lens. Wide lenses are a necessity if you are interested in landscapes and panoramic shots.

There are certain advantages of a D5100 over a D7000. The image qualities would be pretty comparable, although the bodies are quite different. However, one obvious advantage (which you initially thought to be an disadvantage) is its light weight and you will realize it when you lug it (along with the lenses) around for a whole day on your shoulders on a trip. These days even professionals are using these sort of cameras as a second camera just for this reason.

The first bird shot is pretty nice and vibrant too.

Enjoy your camera and share a few of the nice shots. Once you are reasonably comfortable with all the settings, switch to RAW format and I promise you shall never switch back to Jpegs.

Regards.

 

[ajay124]

asit

Thank you Asit. I find a camera body weighing 500-600g range comfortable and easy to handle. Both my lenses weigh very little and I can carry both of them around in my bag. I tried handling a D7000 with an 18-200 Nikkor lens and it was heavy duty work!

I do need a wide angel lens and was almost tempted to buy the 18-55mm VR kit lens yesterday. It retails for 7K but with the D5100 body it was only 4K. Not a bad deal at that price. Sooner or later I will be adding a third lens but I have not decided which one. Most of the time I will be using the 35mm prime.

I bought a 52mm UV filter today. I was looking for a multi coated Hoya but the shop only had Marumi, Sony and Kenko. The dealer suggested Marumi and since the cost was only 400 rupees I took his advise. I am happy about the extra protection which a filter will provide to the lens. I did not notice any deterioration in picture quality so I intend to buy another one and keep them permanently connected to both the lenses. Since I spend a lot of time fooling around with the menu settings the battery needs to be recharged more often. I will probably have to buy a duplicate battery and a couple of 4GB SDHC (class 10) cards for HD videos.

 

[Asit]

Ajay,
UV filters are a good idea. I also like the idea of having a filter fixed to a particular lens. However, the filters should be of good quality. Currently I also have two filters attached to my two lenses - one 52 mm and the other 72 mm. For the expensive lens, I actually ended up paying up quite a lot for the Hoya Pro-1 MC 72 mm.

Here is a link for the UV filters review (although they are mostly for 72mm and a few for 77 and 67 mm): UV filters test - Description of the results and summary - Lenstip.com

Study the above link and a few similar ones to get a better idea of the filters.

Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Congratulations Ajay! Good to see you pulled the trigger. Now you will be very busy next few days/weeks Happy clicking.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Bird picture is nice! Good colors, sharpness and saturation. Bokeh isn't bad either.

 

[ajay124]

Thanks Ranjeet.

The D5100's handling of color is truly revelatory! Most of the indoor shots I took with the D40 had a blotched and unnatural look. We have chosen bright pastel shades for our room walls. Shades of peach/rust for our bedroom, a dreamy blue for our daughter's bedroom and a cool, soothing, shady green for our living/music room. My wife, daughter and I mostly wear blue jeans with bright tops. The D40 used primarily in the Auto mode :sad: exaggerated these colors. A delicate pastel shade was rendered in a loud, vulgarized manner which bore little relationship to the original. Outdoor pictures never reflected the natural colors of our clothes or of the landscape. Earlier I did not use any editing software and all the pictures I took appear to have a lot of noise. The default settings of the D40 and the Auto mode tend to overexpose and generally over render everything. I have briefly used the D5100 in the Auto mode/Auto ISO/Auto white balance and 0 exposure compensation settings and the results are excellent. One would have to work really hard with manual settings to beat those results.

If we replace vision with sound then in audiophile terms the music played through a D40 lacked transparency, tonality or the ability to separate the sound being produced by individual instruments. It colored the music (in a bad manner) and made it fatigue inducing! The D40 performed like a budget hifi system where as the D5100 is like crossing the threshold and gaining access to the main hall of hifi. The D40 was like my earlier music system. Yamaha dvdp/Yamaha avr/Wharfedale Diamond 8.4's/DAC cables. The D5100 is like my present system. Esoteric/Bryston/Vienna Acoustic/Transparent Audio.

Ultimately you get what you pay for. Although in hifi the BS is thicker on the ground and if you are not handy with a shovel you can wind up getting far less than what you have paid for

 

[ajay124]

Is it possible to dump all zoom lenses and shoot with only a 35mm or 50mm prime lens?

Many amateur and even pro's would say yes! Four years ago I blindly bought the D40 with the 18-55 kit lens because it seemed to be the hot new thing. This time I did some research and decided to buy a Nikon DX body and AF-S lenses separately. The 18-55 is a good, economical and effective all rounder but I have been using it for 4 years and wanted to try out something new. The 35mm has replaced it as my multi purpose lens with the added advantage that I can shoot in low light without having to use the pop up flash.

Personally my inclination is moving away from trying to shoot spectacular landscapes to shooting every day 'slice of life' scenes. For the former I would need expensive wide angle lenses like the AF-S DX NIKKOR 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5G ED or the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II. Both are 50K+ and clearly outside my budget! For the latter a AF-S DX NIKKOR 35mm f/1.8G (13K) or AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.8G (13K) are a great options! I have bought the 35mm and may also buy the 50mm sometimes in the future.

For shooting wildlife and sporting action some affordable options would be AF-S DX NIKKOR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR (20K), AF-S DX VR Zoom-NIKKOR 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED (14K), AF-S VR Zoom-NIKKOR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED (4.3x) (30K). I opted for the affordable 55-200mm (14K) as my second lens. Since I spend most of my time in Chandigarh there are not many options for shooting for wildlife. And for many years now I have not had the slightest interest in any sport! Most popular sports like football, cricket, tennis, basketball and hockey are ultimately about hitting, kicking, catching or throwing a ball. Big deal! I can no longer understand why men and women who are good at this should be paid millions and treated like demigods

Therefore a 35mm or 50mm prime lens satisfies most of my requirements and I don't really need another lens.

The Forgotten Lens

Why shooting with just a 35mm lens WILL improve your photography | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

[ranjeetrain]

Ultimately you get what you pay for. Although in hifi the BS is thicker on the ground and if you are not handy with a shovel you can wind up getting far less than what you have paid for

Glad to you realized that without spending millions Many people think something that costs more costs more because it deserves to. One such person I know in real life is my brother :lol:

Music and Photography are my top two hobbies, and today, I am closer to photography than music because there is much less BS in Photography than Hifi!

 

[ajay124]

Having recently escaped the monotony and limitations of the green Auto button I would like to set everything manually on the D5100. But a novice like me trying to do everything manually can 'freeze up' at the crucial moment. My mind and hands do not have the fluid rhythm of a more seasoned photographer. When I try to juggle too many balls in the air - EV, WB, ISO, Active D lighting, Focus mode, Release Mode, Modes Dial etc.- very soon the balls become a blur! I spend so much time changing settings on the screen that the camera battery needs to be charged after 1.5 days and roughly 100 shots. I am applying the censor stick very broadly and have a keeper rate of 1%! In order to make life and photography simpler I need to 'fix' a few settings and only change the most crucial settings before a shot. Having tried all the white balance settings I discovered that the Auto settings works exceptionally well on the D5100. I have fixed a few more setting - EV at 0, Matrix metering, single frame release mode, Focus mode at A mode most of the time. Color mode an sRGB, Picture control at Neutral, Active D lighting on, Single point AF for a single subject and Auto area AF for street photography.

Crucial settings?

ISO: With the D40 the choice was 100,200,400. Beyond that the results were unacceptably grainy. The basic editing software of iPhotos could remove some of the noise, but I felt it was better not to introduce too much noise in the first place. ISO is one of the strong points of D5100. It is possible to shoot relatively noise free photos at 100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, 500, 640, 800, 1000, 1250. A luxury which I am still getting used to!

Aperture: Just like hifi one needs to work hard to discover the 'sweet spot' or rather the sweet range of aperture settings. I have taken hundreds of shots at every aperture setting of both the 35 and 55-200 lenses in order to fix a sweet range which works in most situations. The aperture range in which the 35mm prime gives good results is F 1.8 to 8. Stopping down further may work in certain situations. Pictures tend to go a little soft and fuzzy at the corners when I shoot from relatively longer distances. The sharpest results happen when I am relatively close to the subject and choose an aperture setting in the 2.5-5.6 range. The 55-200 is the dark horse, which has taken the lead now! It works well in the F5.6-16 range. It seems to be very sharp at 55 and 200 zoom and a little less so in the middle. A few stunning shots of my wife at 200 zoom and F5.6 are the first decent photos I have taken after 6-7 years of using an SLR. My wife was a fairly enthusiastic partner in my hifi obsession last year. She seems to be even more enthusiastic about my new obsession!

Henri Cartier Bresson's famous comment that "your first 10000 photos are your worst" holds true for everyone irrespective of our photography budget. I have no idea how many 'worst' pictures I have shot over the years but recently, through sheer happenstance, I took 4-5 pictures which may be called 'keepers' by amateur standards.

The ruminations of a rookie! I hope more seasoned photographers like Ranjeet, Asit, Kannan and others will share their knowledge and experiences
__________________

 

[Asit]

Ajay,

I am not really a seasoned photographer. But I have more than casual interest in the subject.

Now coming back to your discussion on the settings of the camera: let me just point out that just because you have a DSLR, there is no shame in using several auto settings - for the white balance, ISO etc. One just needs to check if your camera does these things correctly. As far as I know the Nikons do the auto ISO correctly unless you use flash (there are problems reported there in many forums).

The goal is to get the shot and not miss it. Composition, depth of field and knowing when to shoot - these are more important factors, and that's why this is an art. Many professionals set many things auto in their camera - of course one needs to know also all the manual settings if the need arises. I love the modern DSLRs (from the mid-entry level like D5000, D5100, 550D, 600D etc) because they give the photographer that freedom.

Before I bought a DSLR, along with my Nikon FE (film SLR) I had a P&S digital camera (Canon A85). It was only 4 MP, and it had full manual controls. I have taken quite a few lovely shots with that A85 in fully manual mode, because in that camera if I used fully auto mode, the shot would not capture what I wanted to shoot. But with my 550D, I set the white balance and ISO auto. I also usually shoot with aperture priority (or shutter speed priority) and shoot. This camera's software and hardware is capable enough to let me do that. In my first post of this thread, I have explained in detail the predominant mode I shoot in my 550D. These DSLRs are good enough to let you choose quite a few things in the auto mode. As Ranjeet also mentioned, we are getting significantly above 90% keepers. Other than focussing, you can pretty much take care of everything else in post processing if you shoot RAW.

Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

What are various camera settings and how do they matter?

Ajay,

Setting up a camera properly is like solving a jigsaw puzzle. When you fit all the pieces together in place properly, you get a good picture. In film days these puzzles used to be made of just two pieces, viz, Aperture size and Shutter speed. That is the reason why there are only 4 modes on cameras, viz, PASM. Out of which one is the full Manual mode and the other Program shift mode.

Fast forward to digital era: Now there are 3 key settings in a camera. Aperture size, Shutter Speed and Sensor sensitivity aka ISO value. If cameras were invented today (think film era didn't exist), they will have five modes - PASIM (Or PISAM, or MAPIS, or MAPIS, or SIMAP, or SIPAM, choose the one you like). To draw an analogy (I mostly end up typing anal-ogy or ana-lol-ogy, and need to go back and correct it. So if you ever see any of the above variations you know what I mean) with Hi-fi, Source-Amplification-Speaker.

The above three settings (for DSLR, only two settings for FSLR {Film Single Lens Reflex} cameras) are what are responsible for most important technical aspect of a photo, viz, Exposure. Rest of the settings are wizardry that control other behaviors of camera/photo. Two other important settings that affect the photo directly are White-balance (WB) and Picture-controls (PC). Human brain natively identifies the source/type/color/temperature of light and adjusts incoming signals to provide us the best understanding of a scene. Cameras, on the other hand, are not deft at handling various types of light. The best light source for a camera is the Sun. Any light powered by an over-the-head Sun is great for cameras. Other than that all lights confuse the cameras to some extent.

Since you have invested in a Nikon system, you have less to worry. Nikon Auto-WB results are much more reliable under any kind of lights than any other brand. Shoot Auto-WB and let the camera decide the WB for you. You will be pleased with most of the results. Another reason to just shoot Auto-WB is that if you are shooting RAW, WB setting is not applied anyway. WB is applied only on JPEG. So shoot raw and you are set to go. Override the Auto-WB only if camera is failing (you may have to wait for long for this). Another reason is to create effects on purpose, or simulate certain lighting conditions. By the time you feel the need to do this, you will automatically know what WB to use. For the time being it is absolutely safe to just shoot Auto-WB.

Picture controls are what I call Cook-to-test (C2T) mechanism. Different people like different amounts of salt/spices in their dishes. Different people also like different amounts of Brightness/Contrast/Saturation/Sharpness in their photos. It varies from person to person, so every camera will offer adjustments to it's natural processing curves.

There are additional settings that don't affect how the final picture picture looks but changes how the picture was shot. They add to the convenience of shooting and allow for different ways in which camera measures the incoming light and tracks the subject. These additional settings are called Metering, Focus-tracking, Drive-mode etc. This is not a complete list and varies from camera to camera.

There are additional settings to be learnt, if you use FLASH. Once again, Nikon flash metering and Creative Lighting System (CLS) is widely regarded as superior to the competition. Even competitors will agree to this. Using external lights with camera (and vice versa) is very difficult. Few people get it right. And you will immediately be able to figure who they are by seeing their artificial light photos.

PS: Some people might rush to add that FSLRs did have ISO/ASA settings. The reason why I don't count them is that all speed films were not available easily. You would only get ISO 100/200 films usually. Additionally, you could only change ISO with the roll, not shot by shot. Unlike digital, where sensor gain is adjusted just by dialing ISO value up and down.

That, my friend, is all about cameras in less than 1000 words. For more I can always write a book :lol:

 

[ajay124]

I have been neglecting my music system of late. So I thought I would focus on it.

Jalsaghar | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[disneyschumi]

Well I am in the field of animation and Films we do lots of experiment with Camera and Pics and videos , In a simple term if you are starting with Digital Photography Nikon D3100 is the best out there, its better then Cannon 1100D,

There are lots of things Nikon D3100 do better then Cannon 1100D,

Like The D3100 has a slight edge (0,3 f-stops) in low noise, high ISO performance, Meaning you get Lower noise at high ISO, that's mainly coz Larger sensor of Nikon APS-C 23.1x15.4mm vs Cannon APS-C 22.2x14.7mm,
and Nikon has Higher true resolution 14.2 MP vs Cannon 12.2 MP ( this is really not gonna make any difference)
and Nikon does 1080p at 24fps vs Cannon 720p ( if u care for video)
and Nikon has Better color depth and More dynamic range then Cannon,
Well if u are starting u all the above wont make any difference, both are more then capable of handling good photography,
And another thing Nikon has LCD Larger Screen then Cannon, which is always gud,
and Both Camera has only 95% coverage viewfinder,
and Few things Cannon do Better is with Battery life and Has a built-in focus motor ( which should help ) but remember focus motor isn't really a factor (unless you want cheaper old lenses) and neither is the bracketing.

 

[ranjeetrain]

^^ Good post. Just one correction. Canon bodies don't have focus motor. Its a myth started by - ummm - Canon fans. That or its an ignorant claim. Canon builds lenses with focus motor. Which increases the lens cost significantly. And if it tries to keep the cost down, build quality and optical performance suffer.

 

[iaudio]

^True that. The 1100D does not have built in AF motor. I dont think the 550D has either. Just that the entry level 50mm prime lens and many others from the canon stable come with a motor which their Nikkor counterparts lack.

Ajay, I somehow feel going all manual is not required unless the situation is that challenging( and you have lots of time to set up the shot!). I prefer to shoot in Aperture priority mode for most of the time and shutter priority for moving subjects.

One situation where I have seen the camera's auto WB get flustered is weddings. The hall/auditorium usually has all kinds of light sources. Sunlight streaming in, incandescent bulbs, Flourescent light, flash bulbs etc. That was where I actually realised the worth of my D200 over a 1000D.

 

[ajay124]

iaudio

I want to become familiar with all the manual options available on the D5100. Most of the shooting I am doing at the moment is focused on getting used to the controls of the camera. I can surf through the menu and select what I want fairly quickly now. Primarily the settings I change most often are the aperture settings and ISO. Using only the Aperture mode has already become second nature. I don't think I will be using any other mode. I am gradually learning the strong/weak points of both the 35mm and the 55-200mm lenses

I have become friendly with a few wedding photographers. All of them sport either a D90 or a D7000 with the 18-105 kit lens. All of them shoot in the Auto mode with a flash. Their lack of knowledge came as a shock to me. Why spend 70K on a D7000 if all you are going to do is point and shoot? I borrowed and played around with a D7000 yesterday evening. Suddenly my D5100 started looking very puny and toy like in comparison. Both camera's may give almost similar results in casual, amateur shoots but the D7000 feels great in your hands. I am afraid the upgrade to D7000 bug has been firmly planted in my mind and sooner or later it will demand action :sad:

 

[ranjeetrain]

How to master camera settings?

Ajay,

Honestly, you don't 'need' to shoot any mode other than A on a Nikon system. S mode has been made nearly redundant by the Nikon Auto-ISO feature which was implemented by Nikon in 2005. iAudio has given a good example where S mode could be needed, but even then S mode is more useful for primes, where you need a minimum speed to take blur-free photos. Another example is sports/action. But the way Auto-ISO has been implemented in newer Nikons, it makes S mode nearly redundant. (1) Because when using Zoom, the required Shutter speed varies. (2) If you don't keep changing the speed shot by shot you are not making full use of the available natural light.

The best way to become familiar with the setting is to:

(1) Shoot a picture with Green Auto mode.
(2) Change to P mode and shoot the same picture with different variations.
(3) Take the pictures on a PC and analyze. Understand why the camera chose the settings it chose in Green Auto mode.
(4) What variations it brought in the picture with the variations you tried.
(5) Switch to any of A/S/M modes and replicate the settings.

If you read my previous post carefully, I have given the crux of photography in there. You don't 'need' to manipulate all the settings. Mastering Aperture and Shutter speed would suffice. The last setting on earth to bother about is ISO setting. Its absolutely safe to ignore it. Camera tries to keep it as low as possible, which is what is needed to be done.

Only other important setting that I have found needs changing is WB, when the lights are tricky enough to confuse the camera.

For metering Matrix will get the job done more often than not.

Like I mentioned, there are myriad settings, and each one has its importance. But they are not deal breaking settings such as Aperture/Shutter speed/WB. Not in the beginning at least.

The best way to know what settings are important and what are not - is - to look at any picture and try to guess what setting might have been used to take the picture. Then pick the camera and try to reproduce the picture and see how much you got it right.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Wedding photographers

There are many reasons why wedding photographers shoot in Green auto mode/change minimal settings.

(1) In most cases, they don't have enough knowledge to manipulate settings for optimum use.
(2) They don't have the time to manipulate settings. Remember, their job is to capture the moments, not manipulate settings. They are better off with 5 pictures that captured unique moments than 1.
(3) They don't need to manipulate settings. A D90/D7000 even in Green Auto mode produces pictures that beat results from cameras like D70, D40, D1 etc. which have been some of the top favorites of wedding photographers. Newer cameras are better performers even in Green Auto compared to previous generation cameras with settings tweaked. And here I don't mean to say Auto Green mode can choose the best DOF for you or best motion blur for you. Subjective parts apart and when it comes to technical aspects, modern cameras are wonder machines.
(4) They cannot use OOC JPEG anyway. They must process the pictures. And if they have to take the pictures to the processing table anyway, why bother with perfecting it in camera? This is something I have seen happen. When I saw the pictures a photographer was taking during a wedding I was like, 'wow, these guys are pros!!'. But when I saw the same pictures when they were delivered, I was like 'wow, the have done a great job'. That was the difference between what they 'shot' and what they 'produced'. So don't go by what they shoot, go by what they deliver.

 

[ajay124]

Ranjeetrain

The 1500 + photos I have on my computer shot with the D40 in the green Auto mode have become a research laboratory. Goa has been our primary holiday destination for the last 4 years. We usually spend a fortnight there in June and then again in December. Most of the outdoor pictures were taken in semi-cloudy/semi sunny conditions in the green Auto mode of D40. Earlier these photos seemed acceptable, as these were the 'keepers' left behind after eliminating roughly 50% of the pictures I took during a holiday. The keepers were chosen because they happened to have a decent exposure or composition. But now I feel that almost all of them would benefit from some post processing. Recently I tweaked some of my 'albums' with the elementary editing software provided by iPhotos in order to understand what happens when I change the exposure, contrast, saturation, definition, highlight, shadows, sharpening and de-noise settings.

The range of settings usually chosen by the Auto mode was:

ISO: 200/320/400.
A: F5.6 - F9
S: 1/100- 1/400
AWB
EV 0

A tiny reduction in exposure and increase in contrast and saturation is more to my liking. A marginal increase of definition/highlights and lightening the shadows also helps. For outdoor pictures shot in the ISO 200-400 range I raise the de-noise value from 0 to somewhere between 30-50. For indoor shots with decent lighting the Auto mode has mostly chosen ISO 400 and flash or ISO 800 and no flash. Most indoor shots require a little more de-noising than the outdoor ones. I don't find the colors of pictures shot with a D40 very natural or satisfactory. I feel that D90 also shares these color tendencies but cannot be sure as I have only taken a few pictures with this camera. D7000 and D5100 both have extremely natural colors. I am happy with the colors and resolution of D5100 when the color space is set to sRGB, Picture Control at Standard, WB and D Lighting at Auto and the lowest ISO value which natural light and aperture settings will allow.