No pre-amp in the chain - Streamer to Power Amp direct?

[DB1989]

I am using both the Marantz 7010's internal amplification of 120 W per channel and the Crowns at 450 W per channel with the Quad S2's. Although the Crown through the Marantz pre drives the Quads effortlessly, it still does not turn the S2's into floorstanders. For low volume listening, I have found my Zen Dac > FX-Audio tube pre -> Crown much better, settings on both the DAC and the Preamp in flat.

Whats your take on the x-bas function on the Zen DAC?

 

[ssf]

Whats your take on the x-bas function on the Zen DAC?

I am using the Zen Dac as a pure Dac in fixed mode bypassing it's volume control and it's TrueBass function. Once when I tried it on as a test, I thought it was implemented really well and ideal for low volume listening. One might need to be careful if using it for high volume listening with a powerful amp as it might overdrive the speakers.

 

[sanjivnayak]

I am also using Indiq Platinum Spatak without any preamp. Output from a DAC and from CD player being fed without any preamp. The gain control of Saptak is at 9 O'clock. Digital volume of CD player and from mobile phone for streaming works fine without any issues. My speakers at present being Pioneer CS707 vintage with 16inch woofer.

 

[DB1989]

I am using the Zen Dac as a pure Dac in fixed mode bypassing it's volume control and it's TrueBass function. Once when I tried it on as a test, I thought it was implemented really well and ideal for low volume listening. One might need to be careful if using it for high volume listening with a powerful amp as it might overdrive the speakers.

Agreed! Its really well implemented! I ran Umik measurements with and without it and found that it applies a mild 3db boost to the frequency spectrum below 100hz. The impressive bit is that this does not seem to affect the midrange which displays a near identical curve to the fixed setting, especially above 200hz. In subjective listening tests also, i found the midrange remained uncoloured. Thats where my beef lies with tone controls on amps which make the midrange sound congested when you increase the bass. Colour me impressed!


Coming to the real meat of the matter, i'd mentioned in previous posts how the Quad S5s sharply roll off at 60 hz (mostly a placement issue but man is it hard to experiment with these mini behemoths, another reason why I prefer bookshelves). Simply put, i could not get its groove on without pairing it with a sub. Getting the Cambridge Audio CXA81 didn't improve things either. Enter X-Bass/TruBass and it was digging down comfortably to its rated frequency of 38hz while putting up a strong showing below 20hz as well, all without the bass sounding uncontrolled or muddy (I just double checked the measurements and -10db extension was down to 6hz)! Swathes of clean clear and warm bass washed over me for the first time in what has been nearly 2 years since I got the Quads. I had to double check to ensure that the REL was powered off. Nevertheless, I still like to pair it with the REL, albeit with the bass turned down a couple of notches to get the balance right.

With the Evo 4.2 and the KEF Q350, i simply switch off the REL, even at low volumes.

Also, does the crown count as a powerful amp cuz i really managed to pump the decibels with peaks reaching in excess of 96db without the drivers on the S5s so much as letting out a whimper of protest (with the xbas turned on).

On another note, how do you have the Zen DAC connected to your Crown - Balanced or unbalanced?

 

[ssf]

Agreed! Its really well implemented! I ran Umik measurements with and without it and found that it applies a mild 3db boost to the frequency spectrum below 100hz. The impressive bit is that this does not seem to affect the midrange which displays a near identical curve to the fixed setting, especially above 200hz. In subjective listening tests also, i found the midrange remained uncoloured. Thats where my beef lies with tone controls on amps which make the midrange sound congested when you increase the bass. Colour me impressed!

Nice that you are trying out room correction. Right now am feeling too lazy to do it.

Coming to the real meat of the matter, i'd mentioned in previous posts how the Quad S5s sharply roll off at 60 hz (mostly a placement issue but man is it hard to experiment with these mini behemoths, another reason why I prefer bookshelves). Simply put, i could not get its groove on without pairing it with a sub. Getting the Cambridge Audio CXA81 didn't improve things either. Enter X-Bass/TruBass and it was digging down comfortably to its rated frequency of 38hz while putting up a strong showing below 20hz as well, all without the bass sounding uncontrolled or muddy (I just double checked the measurements and -10db extension was down to 6hz)! Swathes of clean clear and warm bass washed over me for the first time in what has been nearly 2 years since I got the Quads. I had to double check to ensure that the REL was powered off. Nevertheless, I still like to pair it with the REL, albeit with the bass turned down a couple of notches to get the balance right.

Am still not sure why you are having this problem with the S5's. If it was room issues, how did TrueBass fix it ? How did a 3 DB boost take it down to 38 Hz ? Anyway, glad that it did.

Also, does the crown count as a powerful amp cuz i really managed to pump the decibels with peaks reaching in excess of 96db without the drivers on the S5s so much as letting out a whimper of protest (with the xbas turned on).

This is again surprising. I tested out my Crown taking a preout from the Marantz (my least favorite option) to the Quad
s2's. Played Deja Vu Affair by Sofi Tukker and the bass was punching strongly from the small mid bass speakers and the speakers were nicely pumping around at a peak DB of 80 !!! The crowns were hardly breaking a sweat, the clip indicators blinking and not even steady at -20 Db below clipping. Have you set the crown to .775v ?

Does crown count as a powerful amp ? Yes it does. It's a professional amp. Audiophiles may have many reasons to not like it but one thing that the crown cant be faulted for is for the power that it delivers. It would not survive in the professional world for long if it was not powerful. So I am still at a loss why you are not getting the power that the crown can deliver.

Or are you one of those head bangers who puts their ears to the speakers at a rock concert ?

On another note, how do you have the Zen DAC connected to your Crown - Balanced or unbalanced?

Zen Dac to FX-Audio tube pre to crown 2502, unbalanced.

 

[DB1989]

Nice that you are trying out room correction. Right now am feeling too lazy to do it.

Positional EQ is more like it rather than software EQ. could certainly do with the exercise, now that we've been cooped up for the last 2 weeks.

Am still not sure why you are having this problem with the S5's. If it was room issues, how did TrueBass fix it ? How did a 3 DB boost take it down to 38 Hz ? Anyway, glad that it did.

The bass boost is non-linear i.e. The 3db boost is at 100hz and progressively increases as you go down lower. Its 6db at 60hz, 10db at 40hz to 20hz and 12db at 10hz. At least thats how my Quads respond to it. Im yet to measure with the Evos and KEFs but now that the topic has been broached, my curiosity is piqued.

This is again surprising. I tested out my Crown taking a preout from the Marantz (my least favorite option) to the Quad
s2's. Played Deja Vu Affair by Sofi Tukker and the bass was punching strongly from the small mid bass speakers and the speakers were nicely pumping around at a peak DB of 80 !!! The crowns were hardly breaking a sweat, the clip indicators blinking and not even steady at -20 Db below clipping.

It was more of a question posed cuz you said that with the trubass function turned on with a powerful amp, it may damage the speakers. I consider it to be plenty powerful and thats why i mentioned my experience that with it powering the quads with the trubass function turned on, i managed to hit peaks of 96db on the spl meter, which was as loud as i dared get lest the neighbours call the cops, without the drivers protesting/distorting.

Does crown count as a powerful amp ? Yes it does. It's a professional amp. Audiophiles may have many reasons to not like it but one thing that the crown cant be faulted for is for the power that it delivers. It would not survive in the professional world for long if it was not powerful. So I am still at a loss why you are not getting the power that the crown can deliver.

Amen

Or are you one of those head bangers who puts their ears to the speakers at a rock concert ?

Don't dude! Just don't! I miss my "locks". Headbanging without aint no fun! but i do like my music at a reasonable volume.

Zen Dac to FX-Audio tube pre to crown 2502, unbalanced.

I have mine connected through a 4.4mm Pentaconn to XLR balanced cable. Slightly darker background with more distinct bass though not necessarily more quantitatively. Having the quads, you must have definitely experienced how much they hiss and spit if the power isn't clean. Though not 100% silent after using a balanced cable, the noise floor is dramatically reduced.

 

[dextrostar]

I am using both the Marantz 7010's internal amplification of 120 W per channel and the Crowns at 450 W per channel with the Quad S2's. Although the Crown through the Marantz pre drives the Quads effortlessly, it still does not turn the S2's into floorstanders. For low volume listening, I have found my Zen Dac > FX-Audio tube pre -> Crown much better, settings on both the DAC and the Preamp in flat.

I have ordered the crown to drive my new FS. This thread did give me some ideas about gain and volume.
So as a novice what should I do with the gain control on the crown? Keep it at like 25% for both channels and use the Marantz remote to control volume?
Also I know that sensitivity on the crown should b set to .775
The crown has variable power input options so should it be 230v or 220v?
Lastly do I need to run setup assistant on the Marantz to get the front detected through the crown?

Regards

 

[ssf]

The Marantz receivers don't supply enough voltage to drive the Crowns to clipping. Hence, you might have to keep the gain controls between 12 and 3 O'clock position and then run the Audyssey program.

Once you do that, don't touch the gain controls anymore. Just use the volume control of the Marantz.

With respect to the Power, I have left it at it's default. I think it is the last option. I might need to check and get back.

Edit: I am using 230 - 240v

 

[dextrostar]

The Marantz receivers don't supply enough voltage to drive the Crowns to clipping. Hence, you might have to keep the gain controls between 12 and 3 O'clock position and then run the Audyssey program.

Once you do that, don't touch the gain controls anymore. Just use the volume control of the Marantz.

With respect to the Power, I have left it at it's default. I think it is the last option. I might need to check and get back.

Edit: I am using 230 - 240v

Thanks you very much for that.
I have an issue with the Marantz setup assistant being non functional now as the network module might have gone bust.

Hence I cannot run setup. As I understand the setup is to set speaker levels and distance.

Will I be able to get output from the fronts when connected to the crown without making any changes to the AVR settings?

Anyone who has experience with crown?
@MaSh @DB1989 @fLUX @arj

 

[dextrostar]

Nice that you are trying out room correction. Right now am feeling too lazy to do it.


Am still not sure why you are having this problem with the S5's. If it was room issues, how did TrueBass fix it ? How did a 3 DB boost take it down to 38 Hz ? Anyway, glad that it did.


This is again surprising. I tested out my Crown taking a preout from the Marantz (my least favorite option) to the Quad
s2's. Played Deja Vu Affair by Sofi Tukker and the bass was punching strongly from the small mid bass speakers and the speakers were nicely pumping around at a peak DB of 80 !!! The crowns were hardly breaking a sweat, the clip indicators blinking and not even steady at -20 Db below clipping. Have you set the crown to .775v ?

Does crown count as a powerful amp ? Yes it does. It's a professional amp. Audiophiles may have many reasons to not like it but one thing that the crown cant be faulted for is for the power that it delivers. It would not survive in the professional world for long if it was not powerful. So I am still at a loss why you are not getting the power that the crown can deliver.

Or are you one of those head bangers who puts their ears to the speakers at a rock concert ?



Zen Dac to FX-Audio tube pre to crown 2502, unbalanced.

Just saw a video of your setup in youtube ..sounds great.

 

[ssf]

Will I be able to get output from the fronts when connected to the crown without making any changes to the AVR settings?

Yes, you will be able to get an output. You might have to manually adjust the output of the fronts using the gain controls of the crown.

Why don't you try running the setup from the receiver itself ? Also, try connecting a cat5 cable to the receiver from your router to see if it will up your network.

 

[dextrostar]

Yes, you will be able to get an output. You might have to manually adjust the output of the fronts using the gain controls of the crown.

Why don't you try running the setup from the receiver itself ? Also, try connecting a cat5 cable to the receiver from your router to see if it will up your network.

Setup assistant is greyed out on the AVR which is the concern. However I am able to access the speaker configuration menu.

I hope there is no requirement to make any changes to AVR to direct output through PA for the fronts.

Regarding network issue I might give it a go later. Thanks for the suggestion.

Regards

 

[ssf]

I hope there is no requirement to make any changes to AVR to direct output through PA for the fronts.

No changes required.

Setup assistant is greyed out on the AVR which is the concern.

Did you try a factory reset ? It worked for some.

 

[DB1989]

Thanks you very much for that.
I have an issue with the Marantz setup assistant being non functional now as the network module might have gone bust.

Hence I cannot run setup. As I understand the setup is to set speaker levels and distance.

You can set the distances by measuring it manually yourself from your listening position. Speaker level can be matched using an SPL meter.

Will I be able to get output from the fronts when connected to the crown without making any changes to the AVR settings?

Yes. But you will still have to level match with the rest of your speakers. Use an SPL meter on your phone and adjust the gain on the crown accordingly.

 

[drkrack]

I usually keep the Crown Gain Settings to 100% while using it for HT purposes.
For stereo I keep it at 80 to 85% depending upon the SQ.

 

[ssf]

Another thought. For HT, I think that you will find a bigger improvement if you use the crown for the center channel rather than for the front Left and Right. For stereo of course, LR.

 

[dextrostar]

No changes required.



Did you try a factory reset ? It worked for some.

Thanks for clearing that doubt.

This issue happened earlier and when you do a factory reset the initial setup kicks in and when it's really a faulty network module then it gets stuck at the setup assistant first page rendering the AVR useless.
Hence assuming that it's again a hardware issue I will let go of the network usage as I cannot afford to take the hassle of sending it again to Mumbai as Marantz couldn't aquire a service partner in kolkata since last year.

Regards

 

[dextrostar]

Another thought. For HT, I think that you will find a bigger improvement if you use the crown for the center channel rather than for the front Left and Right. For stereo of course, LR.

Thats also a good idea but come to think of it my rears will be my old but demanding FS so my Avr isn't powerful enough to drive fronts and rear.

 

[dextrostar]

I usually keep the Crown Gain Settings to 100% while using it for HT purposes.
For stereo I keep it at 80 to 85% depending upon the SQ.

Thanks for the input...will give that a go once the setup is complete.

 

[dextrostar]

You can set the distances by measuring it manually yourself from your listening position. Speaker level can be matched using an SPL meter.

Yes. But you will still have to level match with the rest of your speakers. Use an SPL meter on your phone and adjust the gain on the crown accordingly.

Thanks for the suggestion buddy.
Will surely try that.
Regards