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Now a Soviet Era Drivers for the Mets


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Hari Iyer

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-One aspect of high Qts drivers intrigues me a lot: Qts is made up of Qes and Qms. Two very similar high Qts value drivers could have radically different (high and low) Qms values. How do these two drivers actually compare sonically in bass duty, even if their Qts is same but radically different Qms values ?
I think drivers with high Qms and the same Qts will have a better mid-range presence and performance. I have seen drivers with high Qms in full-range drivers but with lower Qts. If Qms is lower, the it is more of a woofer and not a FR driver.
 

yogibear

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Hari, I am sorry for the confusion. I meant comparing sonic impressions of two similar high Qts woofers BUT with extreme values of Qms, for bass duty.

High Qms drivers is another subject of my interest but I could find little on this subject, except that, high Qms drivers for bass are preferred with tube veterans with so called "Golden Ears" for their dynamic bass BUT they must be accompanied by good bass amps for accurate control over their cones else they become wild at their Fs and display peaky resonances.
 

Hari Iyer

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Ok
You can try simulation with high and low Qms with the same Qts and check out the result. Agreed it's a simulation but still you get some idea.
 

yogibear

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Did that, the plots are similar but that cannot explain sonic differences.

Opinions are divided over the subject on the net.
 

Hari Iyer

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My drivers probably getting delivered by mid next week. After that breakin, measure, simulate, design and built my first ever OB speakers. Am excited about it.
Thanks to FM Yogibear and Sumanta to convince me for OB.
 

jls001

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Are you planning on having a big woofer to take care of the bass in the planned OB?

What is the size of the Soviet driver?
 

Hari Iyer

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Are you planning on having a big woofer to take care of the bass in the planned OB?

What is the size of the Soviet driver?
My FR driver is 8" size, I have till now simulated over 7 woofers of 12", 15" and 18" including eminence, seas, Ahuja using Basta, but none of them have a better response on the low end compared to this Soviet era driver based on published data.

This intrigued me a lot and I want to discover if it's really true and hence building one. I will be following a minimalist approach for this as I don't have much h building experience with OBs. Will be fully trusting the simulator as of now.

I do have a pair of Bolton 10" woofers with me, but their SPL is suite low.
 

shafic

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Hari,
You need at least 12" high sensitive woofer to match your new drivers.
You can't get 'enough' bass from your new 8" FR drivers in OB.
There is a pair of altec 416 are available for sale from Mr. Malvai. You can go for them.
Regards.
 

jls001

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My FR driver is 8" size, I have till now simulated over 7 woofers of 12", 15" and 18" including eminence, seas, Ahuja using Basta, but none of them have a better response on the low end compared to this Soviet era driver based on published data.

This intrigued me a lot and I want to discover if it's really true and hence building one. I will be following a minimalist approach for this as I don't have much h building experience with OBs. Will be fully trusting the simulator as of now.

I do have a pair of Bolton 10" woofers with me, but their SPL is suite low.
I don't have much personal experience with OB outside of hearing some but I also would second what Shafic says. 8 inch wide bander is unlikely to give satisfactory bass weight in an OB. My limited understanding is one needs something larger like 12" woofer with sufficiently high Qts of at least 0.7 to work in OB, to work along with the wide band driver.

Do check out this thread.
 
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Hari Iyer

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I don't have much personal experience with OB outside of hearing some but I also would second what Shafic says. 8 inch wide bander is unlikely to give satisfactory bass weight in an OB. My limited understanding is one needs something larger like 12" woofer with sufficiently high Qts of at least 0.7 to work in OB, to work along with the wide band driver.

Do check out this thread.
I have read many such post using 12"+ drivers in an OB for low end duty. Then back to the same question- is the simulator lying? I am fully aware that largish driver can push more air and their low resonance and higher Qts help. But the OB simulation in Basta for largish driver does not show better response than the Soviet era driver. This keeps me guessing and wondering. How can that be types? Only building myself and discovering could solve the mystery.
If time permits today and tomorrow, I shall try and post some example simulation for some standard 12"+ woofers vis-a-vis Russian drivers for a comparison.
 

yogibear

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Hari,

Put that Soviet driver in a baffle at the seated ear height. Play it unfiltered through your SET.

Post your sonic impressions on the overall sound. Later you can think of adding a bass driver. No worries in the beginning. Keep it simple and give it a start.

I played single Driver for months playing with different FRD - amp combos and actually enjoyed it. Learnt a lot on taming mid and hf and eventually learned the tricks to add bass which gave warmth to mid as well.

Your high Qts FR may do wonders and stretch a little lower by itself giving warm tonality. Not saying that separate bass driver will not be needed.
 

Hari Iyer

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Thanks Yogibear for your suggestions. I shall follow your approach. Due to ßpace constraints cannot go to big with OBs. If bass eventually turns out low, then will add my own TL Sub. This Wii be used from 100Hz down.
 

yogibear

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I forgot to mention. Whatever baffle size suits you, try sticking to 1:1.6 ratio and after you centre your driver on the front baffle, give only one side of the driver a rear side wall of 4” - 6” for asymmetrical acoustic distance, a kind of L shape.

Rediscovering CD tracks on mine. Played some tracks from Swadesh. Seated in sweet spot, tears will roll down, you will stop judging imaging, soundstage, hf extension, mid, bass. No need to fix a drink. You will end up “stoned”.

Not a perfect setup but a few things it does, Outweighs its shortcomings. Mine first at 18 was 2 way sealed, wooden Pentagonal, again at 48, its 2 way but Open Baffle. However it’s not the last.

Good luck with your efforts.
 

Hari Iyer

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Comparison of 2 woofers vis-a-vis the Soviet Era driver.

Blue - Soviet Driver
Purpule - Ahuja 18" woofer
Red - Eminence Alpha 15A woofer

The eminence goes lower than the Russian driver couple of Hz with higher SPL. If done well can sound very good in an OB if space permits.
 

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Sumanta

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Playing bass with same driver having 90+ dB SPL is difficult, it is better to have dedicated separate driver for that. Not that this 8" can not do such a wonder but is too much load and inviting distortion for the driver's perspective. Or else try some wonder drivers of Ahuja of 12".
Repeating, read posts of Dr. Jaudere if you want to.

If you are hell bent on using one driver, try the idea of Helmholtz resonating chamber with this driver. Or try cloth support.
 
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