Passive pre with Ayon CD1

[pratimbayal]

Dear Freinds

There has been two recent upgrade in my system and want to share the same with you all.

Passive pre

I was using a simple attenuator betwwen my cdp and operetta power amplifier. The sound was good but was a temporary solution. Since the system was working fine I planned for a passive- as I mentioned in some earlier posts . Got support for my plan from Arup and Sangram . Ultimately Cranky made the passive for me. This is three input passive -for my CD, Tape and DVD player. It took quite long tme ( 4 months ) mainly importing the parts. When I first set up the passive in my system, the sound was dissapointing. I called Cranky immediately and he told me to wait for a day to burn in. Next day the sound was completely different. There has been all round improvement in the sound -more transparent , more detail, clear mid and high, tighter and deep bass. Major major difference is the tone -it is more natural that I was looking for. And best result is for the well recorded CD - Four play, Mark Knopfler , Diana Krall..... they are sounding nice and natural.

On the volume , for normal listening you need to keep the volume knob betwwen 11 o clock to 2 o clock depending on the recording.To crank up you may need to touch 4-5 o clock. This is different from an active pre

For the my tape Deck-I need to keep the deck volumn near max position.


However for very few CD I was expecting more openness in sound. But thats not a major issue and I donot know whether this is for the recording/pressingof those CD.

On built quality and make- You can show this to your guests proudly and this piece will remain with you as long as you want. Nice look and very well build.


I have invited Asit to listen this pre and give his view.

Interconnect.

I needed two pairs of interconnect after the pre , my existing two pairs of audio art IC being used with Tape and DVD. For CD to pre and pre to power cranky made two excellent IC. One of them with cardas plug ( only one pair for the budget). These are very good interconnect with ton of detailing and clear sound.

Both the above has improved the system to significant extent. Now I am looking to upgrade my amplifier. Apart from Sangram, Asit, Arup Goswamy , I have been in touch with many freind in the forum ( Sidvee, Malvai, Dr. Bass, Dyniar, Roc,Amit, Ajay ......) through PM/phone and seeking their view on the power amp and hope to decide soon.


Regards
Pratim

 

[soundofmusic]

The sound experience from a Passive pre is very different from an active one. The Promitheus which I have purchased from Sidvee is doing wonders in my system, Now I am thinking of upgrading to Signature version from Promitheus. I previously used a lowend NAD C160 ( Now used as a secondary system along with Nad C270) The sound between these two pre is entirely different. Also compared the Promitheus with Musical Fidelity A5 , and the Promitheus came close to it ......sometimes better then the MF. Pratim try to get hold of Bryston, they are very good and much better then the Jaton.

 

[pratimbayal]

Yes Bryston is would be much better the than Jaton( obviously for the price ) . However there are other options also ( Odyssey Kismet or Used high end amp like Symphonic Line, ML, Krell etc)- amd important thing would be to match with passive pre.

 

[ajay124]

@Pratim
Some tough advise which may or may not be to your liking.
I am only writing this,because having spoken on the phone with you a few times,and seen the amount of money and time you have devoted,in trying to put together a system you can live with happily ever after,I would genuinely like you to find audio nirvana.But I do not think it will happen with the fixes you are attempting.
I believe you can retain the Ayon cdp but need to jettison everything else.You have heard both the MF M6i and the Bryston Pre Power.For the amp either of the two would be a good option.The MF would be 150K and a used Bryston Pre Power(if you can locate one in a good condition) would be 200K.Other options can also be looked at.
For the speakers,you would have to start hunting from scratch.Getting good speakers is the hardest part,but when you do find them,you will know that your audio journey is finally reaching it's destination.For the kind of sound you are looking for,you will need to budget 150-200K for the speakers.
Spontaneous post!So please ignore it,if you feel there is nothing in it for you.

 

[pratimbayal]

Hi Ajay

I remember your suggestion on MF and Bryston over phone.Afterwards I heared them both at audio people and to me MF sonded better. However not listen them with BE 718. There is one more good matching amp for BE 718 - Electrocompaniet ECI 5 . though I have not heared it. And it is an integrated amp so not in my priority.I want to enjoy the natural transparency of the passive that I have now and want to add a power amp. The feed back on Odyssey stratos ( and Kismet ) with BE-718 is good . A long burning time is required for this amp and the sound is completely different when fully burnt in.In any way my Operetta is also doing a good job for the money.

For speakers yes there are better speaker than mine .I like the blumenhofer the most after lisenting them aprat from Theil , Emerald physics ...
But changing speaker is not in my priority at this time and even if I change will look for speaker such as Blumehofer Fun / ATC SCM 90 ( preferebly used ) .

Any other suggestion ?

Regards

 

[Asit]

Dear Pratim,

Sorry that so far I have not been able to take up your invitation and come and listen to your system with the passive pre in place. I was extremely busy during the past few weeks until last evening and generally I will be quite busy till December 15 or so. However, I am planning to make a trip to your place on one of the next few Sundays, not this one, but perhaps the next one.

As I have told you several times, beyond a point, it is actually the matching and synergy of the equipments, and also their placement and your room that plays a very major role in the sound that you ultimately hear. Even all the cables (including power cables) need to be chosen carefully so as to complement the rest. You very well know and have witnessed it yourself, how in my system the sound can change with placement of CDP and amp, and speaker-placement on proper stands and the role of the cables. There is no end to upgrading, but one needs to understand the system as a whole and identify the role of each component in the chain before one does that with hope of significant improvement in the audio department. So my humble advice to you is to take as much time as possible to understand your system. Experience is bliss in this business, so gather it yourself by living with your system. Nothing is running away from you.

Also, try to make emotional connection with the music you are listening to. If you are not moved emotionally, there is something wrong:either with the music itself, or with the recording, or with something in your system. Dissecting the music in parts may also work for some (I can also do that if I really want, and I actually do that as you know, my particular case is different because of my background), but if there is no emotional connection, there is actually no point in all this.

Another point I like to mention is the following: always listen to a system with respect to a reference system. Without that, you do not have an yardstick for judgement.

That's all I can say at the moment. You are in hands of so many very knowledgeable people that I really do not think I have much to contribute as far as brands go. The range you are looking at, people pretty much know what are the good brands.

Regards

 

[arj]

For speakers yes there are better speaker than mine .I like the blumenhofer the most after lisenting them aprat from Theil , Emerald physics ...
But changing speaker is not in my priority at this time and even if I change will look for speaker such as Blumehofer Fun / ATC SCM 90 ( preferebly used ) .

Any other suggestion ?

Regards

If you are planning on a speaker upgrade in the next year and not now, my suggestion is NOt to buy an amp now..put that money in any good MF and use the money to upgrade the speaker first..and the amp second.
in many ways what Ajay124 and asit are also recommending.

buying and amp now, and changing the speaker laterr will only put you in the market for another matching amp later

 

[ajay124]

"Also, try to make emotional connection with the music you are listening to. If you are not moved emotionally,there is something wrong:either with the music itself,or with the recording,or with something in your system....but if there is no emotional connection,there is actually no point in all this."
Pratim,
That may be all the advise you will ever need on your audio journey.When you start 'bonding' with your music,to the point,that you are always 'listening' or 'wanting to be listening' to your CD's,and your mind is free from possible upgrades,tweaks and fixes,then you would have reached your destination.
"Nothing is running away from you"
Play it coolDon't show the colour of your money until you are absolutely convinced yourself.

 

[ajay124]

If you are planning on a speaker upgrade in the next year and not now, my suggestion is NOt to buy an amp now..put that money in any good MF and use the money to upgrade the speaker first..and the amp second.
in many ways what Ajay124 and asit are also recommending.

buying and amp now, and changing the speaker laterr will only put you in the market for another matching amp later

I think you should keep an open mind and seriously consider what Arj has recommended:
Speakers first.Amp later.

 

[pratimbayal]

Thanks Asit, Ajay , Arj

I am emotionally attached only to this hobby - otherwise could not have spend this much for music.As far as gear is concerned , I was completely unaware of this world before 1 and 1/2 years ago and statred with a vey low budget- that's where I made a mistake ( suppose common to many like me). Otherwise I could have avoided some wastage of money . However things changed after I joined this forum and nice freinds here.


I am very much happy with my speaker , source , cables etc - only feel, from mind and heart , I need to optimise (even not more)the amplification for this set up in the cheapest way possible . Will fix this quickly . I seriously need to increase my music collection - music for which we all are ultimately in the journey.

Arj

Actually I want to upgrade in bigway down the line after few years - given the opportunity. Now want to enjoy music in this set up, (with fixing the amplification) for quite few years. I am also doing small tweaks - power connection, wiring etc as Asit has mentioned to be necessary .

In the mean time I was very close to buy an used but wonderfull amp from abroad - Unfortunatly did not happened at the last moment due to fund constraint.

Any way srearching for right gear , correct tweaks etc. gives tremendous pleasure - currently was following Ajay's tread...

Asit
Are u comimg next sunday

Cheers
Pratim

 

[malvai]

Pratime ARJ, Ajay are absolutely right....

The first thing is speakers.... If and only if you are fine with your speakers you invest in an amp.

First, take a call on whether you are going to live with your speakers, or not.

If yes, then look for an amp that will give you oodles of clean power.

Next, the room treatment, placement usually is the most important (and time consuming tweak). One that will give your sound 'the edge' and finesse!

 

[pratimbayal]

Dear members ,

Resuming this thread to share my recent system updates. After a long search and discussions ( over phone , PM) with many forum members , I purchased the power amp that I was looking for- Odyssey Kismet around one month back. This is an extreme version with upgraded capacitor and wiring.

I am running the kismet with the my resistor based passive pre. This passive is now showing its true potential. In between I was not sure about the passive and was thinking to change to TVC or active pre. That is not required any more.

The amp has been burnt in for 150 hours. The sound is extremely musical, clean, detailed . To me this has perfect imaging and dynamics. Very good sound stage. The same BE718 is now performing in a different level. To cut the story short- I am extremely satisfied with the sound and will live with this for very very long time. Kismet is an wonderfull amp .

Our dear member magma has made a rack for me . You might have seen the pic in his thread recently. I was just surprised to see the craftmanship . This rack apart from giving stability to my cdp and TT , has added a majestic look to my set up.


I started a sudden venture to vinyl also -with the purchase of Project RPM 4 TT (used) from our member myriad . Now enjoying the beauty of vinyl also. In procees of acquiring Nighthawk F-117 phono stage.


Added a siltech powerchord with furutech plugs - purchsed from myriad .This has added depth to the sound .


Now to me the system has got an wonderfull synergy - enjoying it very much. Yesterday Asit was at my home to audition the system and I think he was also satisfied ( I rely on his ear next to me) .


The BE 718-kismet-ayon combo was primarily suggested by sidvee . The kismet amp was recomended by cranky , Dr. Bass , Asit , squarewave - thanks to all of them.



Cheers
Pratim

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hearty Congratulations Pratim !! Now buy as many CDs as you can and enjoy

 

[sidvee]

Pratim - Glad to hear that you are enjoying the kismet:clapping:. Please do post some pics of the new configuration.
Cheers
Sid

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Hi Pratim.
Congrats for your double... oh no.. triple addition - Kismet, Project TT and Audio rack from Ali. Your venture in vinyl was first known to me from Asit, when I was discussing with him over telephone regarding my speaker selection for AVR.
I know your passion for music. Only left now is a phonostage, then you will be left with collecting CDs and Vinyls only. Do enjoy friend. There is no end for upgradation. I am a pet lover guy. The audio gears / video gears also I look like pet. It is my weak point. I am deeply involved with my gears. Also upgradation means money. But I like to hear different gears and I get chances here at Delhi courtsy through regular meets.

Recently I have collected 'closer to music; 3 Cds of Chesky records. Very good recording. Now my focus has expanded and collecting blu-rays become my priority. BTW could you pick-up some CDs from Amazon.Uk during their Free-shipping to India offer?

Post picture of your total set-up including the rack. I am looking for one for my AVR + BDP setup. If I visit Kolkata your place will be definitely in my list to drop in.

Cheers

 

[anm]

congrats! pics please!

 

[pratimbayal]

here are the pics

 

[pratimbayal]

some more pictures

cheers
Pratim

 

[pratimbayal]

Thanks every body

Yes, now music only . Apart from CD , started collecting LPs - its is a nice expereince .

Amit

I also feel the same way with my gears as your are feeling- there is am emotional attachment for me too. Please do come whenever you are in Kolkata. There might not be any change in my system apart from a good new TT down the line. Curretly I am enjoying LPs through the CA 640 P phonostage borrowed from Asit. Doing fine. However I am trying to get the Nighthawk F-117 phono stage - apart from the SQ , it has the flexibility to change gain , which will suit with my passive pre. I had an opportunity to test this phono with my system also -borrowed from myriad

Waiting for more improvement from kismet after 300 hours.

Cheers
Pratim

 

[AMITNOIDA]

Pratim, thanks for the pics. Kismet is a big good looking power amp, no doubt. I have heard Odyssey Stratos, but Kismet extreme variety must be much better than Stratos. Enjoy the full potential of BE-718. How it compares with Symphonic line RG-10? I consider RG-10 as reference based on my experience of listening them at ARN Bangalore.

The rack is also looking beautiful. You have preferred two shelve design. I think, Ali does make the three shelve variant also. The shelves are made of smoked glass or some other material? Were the glass shelves supplied by Ali or you have cut them at Kolkata as per the given dimension? Why I am asking is, transportation of glass has always the associated risk of getting broken.

I will like to call you sometimes during this weekend and discuss in detail.

Cheers