Phono pre suggestion
- Thread starter Asit
- Start date
actually i had not meant the platter as by the drive I meant the coupling interface(direct/idler/belt) to the platter.Well, I have ignored your comments about me, didn't I?
I'll also include the platter to your list above, unless you have already included it when you mentioned 'drive'. Yes, from whatever little I have read and experienced, I think you are spot on with your observations. The Scheu bearing on the Cello/Premier is so good that without power if one just spins the platter lightly, it goes on rotating for more than 5 minutes. One reviewer writes that he stopped the watch after 5 minutes. That's something, isn't it? I am sure many other good TTs may have this kind of a bearing, nevertheless, it impresses me no end, even being a physicist myself.
I just collected some interesting information on the Trigon. I'll post them later. I'll be very busy during the day and may not have the time. This is along the line of adjustability in terms of different loads and gain to suit many carts.
Regards.
but you are right platter + bearing is what really runs the LP for the arm/cart to make music.
In the following, I am comparing the three phono pre-amps in terms of adjustability of loads and gain.
Ray Samuels Nighthawk
Gain : 40db-75db adjustable in 6 increments
Input Impedance: 30, 50, 100, 500, 1k selectable (MC) & 47K (MM)
Input Capacitance: 220 pF (MM/MC) fixed
Trigon Vanguard II
Gain : 42 - 66 dB adjustable in 16 increments
Input Impedance: 47 KOhm fixed (MM), 25 to 1800 Ohm in 31 steps (MC)
Input Capacitance: 60 - 100 pF basic capacity / 47pF, 100pF, 147pF (selectable, important for MM)
Jasmine Audio LP2.0 mk II
Gain (fixed) : 55db (MM) and 70db (MC) at 1kHz
Input Impedance: 47 KOhm fixed (MM), 50/100/250/1K ohm selectable (MC)
Input Capacitance: 100 pF (MM/MC)
From the above, there is no doubt that the Trigon is the most versatile among the three. The wide range of input impedances makes these suitable for carts which have got low system impedance, such as Ortofon, and carts which are preferably terminated at higher impedances, such as Benz, Soundsmith etc. It is hard to find a phono pre-amp out there which is so versatile. Either the steps from low to high impedance are largish (Ray Samuels, Lehmann) or they are limited to low to medium impedances (Einstein) or medium to high impedances only.
Of course, being the most versatile may not guarantee the best sonics. However, it is one of the important things. I also came to know why Trigon was made this way. Actually this phono-stage was built for Ortofon. Ortofon needed to have such a versatile unit with small steps in load and gain for development of their carts. Later Trigon started marketing this with consent from Ortofon. The above is given to me by Jochen of course.
The Jasmine Audio LP2.0mkII is the least versatile among the three, but has a few absolutely superlative reviews as already pointed out by arj. I'll try and post some of those reports here later. The Ray Samuels Nighthawk has many reviews available from users and professional reviewers and they are generally very very good and also easy to find by googling. The Trigon is relatively unknown. German reviews are available and they are generally very good. The Trigon brand has been present in several audio shows, including Montreal 2011. I am just trying to dig up as much information as possible about these less known brands.
The Scheu site recommends both Lehmann and Trigon. In fact, one can buy these phono-stages directly from Scheu, or so it seems from their site.
Regards.
Asit da,
Thanks for the list. In other forum, I found Trichord Dino being talked about and in a similar price bracket and quite versatile. The specs from their web-site is :
Dino MK2
Switch selectable gain:
MC Very Low Output 0.1 - 0.25mV 74dB
MC Low Output 0.25 - 0.4mV 70dB
MC
Normal Output 0.4 - 0.6mV 63dB
MM Low Output 2 - 3mV 52dB
MM High Output 3 - 5mV 48dB
Cartridge loading resistance: 33 ohms, 100 ohms, 1k ohms, 47K ohms
Cartridge loading Capacitance : MC 1.1nF
MM 100pF
Thanks for the list. In other forum, I found Trichord Dino being talked about and in a similar price bracket and quite versatile. The specs from their web-site is :
Dino MK2
Switch selectable gain:
MC Very Low Output 0.1 - 0.25mV 74dB
MC Low Output 0.25 - 0.4mV 70dB
MC
Normal Output 0.4 - 0.6mV 63dB
MM Low Output 2 - 3mV 52dB
MM High Output 3 - 5mV 48dB
Cartridge loading resistance: 33 ohms, 100 ohms, 1k ohms, 47K ohms
Cartridge loading Capacitance : MC 1.1nF
MM 100pF
Hypnotoad and others on AK etc have been reporting excellent
results creating "640p on steroids", modding
them with better caps and opamps.
One of threads even has a easy parts list, if you can get someone to
help you with the mods.
Hypnotoad himself was doing this as a service, if you send it to him.
Recapping Cambridge Audio 640P Phono Preamp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Modded 640P Giant Killer Phono Stage? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Not Another 640P Upgrade Thread OR Is There No End To The Madness? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
results creating "640p on steroids", modding
them with better caps and opamps.
One of threads even has a easy parts list, if you can get someone to
help you with the mods.
Hypnotoad himself was doing this as a service, if you send it to him.
Recapping Cambridge Audio 640P Phono Preamp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Modded 640P Giant Killer Phono Stage? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Not Another 640P Upgrade Thread OR Is There No End To The Madness? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Thanks Manoj for that information on the Dino mk2. I was not aware of this one. Okay, I'll look them up.
Quad,
Thanks. Yes, I am aware of these threads (generally stored in a folder on my laptop). Actually my take is as follows: CA makes budget products. I do not like their amps that much. However, their CDP, DVDP and phono designs are good, but because of the budget pricing, they cannot always use high quality components. If one wants, one can carefully choose to upgrade some of these components, depending on one's budget. I personally own 2 products from CA, the 740c CDP and the 640p phono, and I think they are very good for the price. I know some people do not agree with me, and I respect their views too.
Regards
Quad,
Thanks. Yes, I am aware of these threads (generally stored in a folder on my laptop). Actually my take is as follows: CA makes budget products. I do not like their amps that much. However, their CDP, DVDP and phono designs are good, but because of the budget pricing, they cannot always use high quality components. If one wants, one can carefully choose to upgrade some of these components, depending on one's budget. I personally own 2 products from CA, the 740c CDP and the 640p phono, and I think they are very good for the price. I know some people do not agree with me, and I respect their views too.
Regards
sachu888
Well-Known Member
Hi, am in touch with Phillip aka Hypnotoad for DIY phonostage which he has developed.They call it CNC phonostage its very cost effective and better than Hangerman Baggle.He has got PCB's for this.Its fully battery operated.You can find details here:
Another Super High End Phono Stage! No expense spared... - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
If anyone wants PCB please let me know,we can save some shipping cost.
Regards,
Sachin
OT, but you could contact this guy if he will part with
the CS5000 motor. It seems to be a good TT worth bringing back
to order.
Wrecked Cual CS5000 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
the CS5000 motor. It seems to be a good TT worth bringing back
to order.
Wrecked Cual CS5000 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Hi quad,
I have been so busy at work, I did not at all come to the forum and therefore did not see your post. I am sorry for the late reply.
Thanks for the link. I just read it, but the guy seems to have returned his TT. In that case, the motor is also returned along with the rest, I would think. What do you say?
Regards.
I have been so busy at work, I did not at all come to the forum and therefore did not see your post. I am sorry for the late reply.
Thanks for the link. I just read it, but the guy seems to have returned his TT. In that case, the motor is also returned along with the rest, I would think. What do you say?
Regards.
Hi folks,
As my search for a phono pre continues, I find new questions and some of these I'd like to share with you. I'd be grateful if you express your views.
Musical Surroundings Phenomena II also has tremendous adjustability in terms of gain and impedance. The reviews are good too.
I was reading about the Jasmine Audio LP2.0 mkII in various forums. The general impression is that it is an extremely well built and well designed unit, and produces exemplary sonics. Obviously that is very tempting. However, most of these people on various forums use MC carts, and at times very low output MC carts. Of course, I have to keep in mind that at the moment and also for some time in the foreseeable future I will have a MM cart.
The theoretical issue that I am facing is its high gain of 55 db.
My MM cart (Ortofon Super OM 30) has an output voltage of 4mV (not as high as the new 2M series which is 5mV). Now, I can use the standard formula: Gain in db = 20 log(V2/V1). With a 55 db gain, and plugging in V1=4mV, V2 comes out to be 2.25 V. So, this 2.25 V is the input to my amp.
My amp has input sensitivity of 600 mV. Input sensitivity of an amplifier is the "the input voltage required in order to produce maximum rated power when the volume control is set to maximum" (AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Amplifier Sensitivity, Decibels, and You!).
This of course means that with such a high gain, I may not have much room to play with my volume knob of the amp. On the other hand, CDPs have a standard output of about 2 V. I know that my CDP gives out quite close to 2 V. But with CD playing, I never felt that I had a problem of too much gain. Usually I play CDs between 9 and 11 O'clock positions. At 12 O'clock, there is no sign of the volume maxxing out. With usual CDs I cannot try beyond that because it would produce ear-splitting sound.
If the above is true, an output of 2.25 V from the phono pre may not be too much to deal with for the amp. However, questions remain. Is the 2V output from the CD the maximum limit, and usually the signals are much weaker?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the above. Some may say, why bother, just do not consider the Jasmine any more. But if you take a look at the real users across the world, they think it is a great phono pre, and that's what is tempting me.
Regards.
As my search for a phono pre continues, I find new questions and some of these I'd like to share with you. I'd be grateful if you express your views.
Musical Surroundings Phenomena II also has tremendous adjustability in terms of gain and impedance. The reviews are good too.
I was reading about the Jasmine Audio LP2.0 mkII in various forums. The general impression is that it is an extremely well built and well designed unit, and produces exemplary sonics. Obviously that is very tempting. However, most of these people on various forums use MC carts, and at times very low output MC carts. Of course, I have to keep in mind that at the moment and also for some time in the foreseeable future I will have a MM cart.
The theoretical issue that I am facing is its high gain of 55 db.
My MM cart (Ortofon Super OM 30) has an output voltage of 4mV (not as high as the new 2M series which is 5mV). Now, I can use the standard formula: Gain in db = 20 log(V2/V1). With a 55 db gain, and plugging in V1=4mV, V2 comes out to be 2.25 V. So, this 2.25 V is the input to my amp.
My amp has input sensitivity of 600 mV. Input sensitivity of an amplifier is the "the input voltage required in order to produce maximum rated power when the volume control is set to maximum" (AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Amplifier Sensitivity, Decibels, and You!).
This of course means that with such a high gain, I may not have much room to play with my volume knob of the amp. On the other hand, CDPs have a standard output of about 2 V. I know that my CDP gives out quite close to 2 V. But with CD playing, I never felt that I had a problem of too much gain. Usually I play CDs between 9 and 11 O'clock positions. At 12 O'clock, there is no sign of the volume maxxing out. With usual CDs I cannot try beyond that because it would produce ear-splitting sound.
If the above is true, an output of 2.25 V from the phono pre may not be too much to deal with for the amp. However, questions remain. Is the 2V output from the CD the maximum limit, and usually the signals are much weaker?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the above. Some may say, why bother, just do not consider the Jasmine any more. But if you take a look at the real users across the world, they think it is a great phono pre, and that's what is tempting me.
Regards.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I have just ordered a Musical Fidelity V-LPS II. Even Musical Fidelity's own site does not have this model featured yet, only the V-LPS. svkndv has a thread on the V-DAC II bought from the same UK company.
Musical Fidelity is a company who's products I often looked at with some desire, but insufficient wallet. Now they present us with the entry-level "V Series" I can actually own one!
Due to an international screw-up (mine, of course
) with the horrible verrified-by-visa, and the subsequent paypal payment, I don't expect to receive it for three weeks plus. I'll post when I get it.
Musical Fidelity is a company who's products I often looked at with some desire, but insufficient wallet. Now they present us with the entry-level "V Series" I can actually own one!
Due to an international screw-up (mine, of course
) with the horrible verrified-by-visa, and the subsequent paypal payment, I don't expect to receive it for three weeks plus. I'll post when I get it. Order now for just ₹19,990.00
