Pioneer AVR: VSX-520/820/920/1020/1120-K

[digitalv]

It is observed that we don't have much discussions on Pioneer AVR models on HFV. How do they compare to models from Denon, Onkyo or Yamaha?

Any idea why Pioneer isn't as popular as the above trio?

Is it because of relatively weak distribution channel, service/support network?

OR

Is the product quality not up to mark when compared to the competition?

OR

Because the local authorized dealers quote the moon for Pioneer products? (Dealer quoted 59K for 1020...lol)

OR

The stigma associated with cheap and duplicate pioneer car stereo products which flooded the market since ages? (cannot be true for AVR's though)

OR a combination of above...

Anyways, here are some very interesting prices from ShopYourWorld for Pioneer AVRs.

 

[techboy]

Because

Harman Kardon/Marantz>Denon>Yamaha>Pioneer

For about 15-17k you can get a brand new 5.1 Harman Kardon locally, with warranty.

And the quality of Pioneer won't stand a chance in front of Harman Kardon.

So those planning to spend 15-30k can easily go for Harman Kardon.

Also, Yamaha too is available in the same price range which is often bought by people.

If you want to spend above 30k, which most people do, then you can get Marantz locally which costs almost the same even through I2C and beats the crap out of everything else within that budget. However, many people prefer Denon for movies and that too costs similar, perhaps a little more.

 

[digitalv]

^
I've heard H&K AVR's were having major quality issues since last 2 years or so and that's the reason they don't sell much anymore...

Any truth in the above?

Also I don't see much of their new models available locally. Needless to say their local website (::: JBL :::) is pathetic and doesn't work most of the time.

 

[hemantwaghe]

B
And the quality of Pioneer won't stand a chance in front of Harman Kardon.

On what basis this statement is made?
any cradible sources?
true for all products?
what about top of the line pioneer which is many times wins awards?

This is motherhood statement so give some webreports to prove it!

 

[kapvin]

Because

Harman Kardon/Marantz>Denon>Yamaha>Pioneer

where / how did you come to that conclusion?

edit:: missed hemant's post on this.. but yeah.. please do share the basis on which you made such an empirical statement!

 

[hemantwaghe]

Techboy can you give us source of your innovative comment?
BTW have you ever heard a plasma called Pioneer Kuro? after its is discontinued still consider best by some

harman is great but that does not prove pioneer is inferior.
have you done some experiments? do you have data? market reports?

I am just checkng some respected british mags tomorrow where Pio receivers and CD players were editors choice and highly recommanded

BTW have you searched Harman quality issues on a site called google.com ..

 

[techboy]

Just listen to Pioneer and listen to Harman. You will know the difference.

That is the best way to prove the point.

 

[hemantwaghe]

which harman models you listened?
and which pioneer models?
as best of the pio is not available here?
and what about harman product failure?

have you heard pioneer elite??? anyway you know such thing exist??

 

[kapvin]

Just listen to Pioneer and listen to Harman. You will know the difference.

That is the best way to prove the point.

oh, so it's your perspective, and not some empirical fact!

Well, it's a democratic country and you are entitled to your opinion as well the right disseminate it, but do not confuse that with fact!

please go ahead, buy your harmon. will wait for your ownership report.

 

[avidyarthy]

Just listen to Pioneer and listen to Harman. You will know the difference.

That is the best way to prove the point.

That is indeed a 'boyish' statement!

Who would arrange the same environment .... the same set of speakers in both the auditions for the check-out? These factors always remain a major handicap when one is seriously trying to 'compare'.

 

[sudhishkv]

Oh boy...

I have been using my VSX LX60 since 2yrs. I know the Denon sale is going on with the free bluray. Its very tempting, but i can't find out one reason for the upgrade :sad:

 

[techboy]

At 20k, Harman receivers would beat Pioneer receivers. That is what I meant. I am not talking of elite receivers, of which I don't know.

I am talking of low-mid level receivers from Pioneer and low level stuff from Harman.

And it is a known fact that Harman and Marantz come in the same league whereas Pioneer is at least one to two notches lower.

If you were to buy a receiver for 30k, would you buy a Marantz or a Yamaha. The same with Harman and Pioneer.

 

[kapvin]

At 20k, Harman receivers would beat Pioneer receivers. That is what I meant. I am not talking of elite receivers, of which I don't know.

I am talking of low-mid level receivers from Pioneer and low level stuff from Harman.

And it is a known fact that Harman and Marantz come in the same league whereas Pioneer is at least one to two notches lower.

If you were to buy a receiver for 30k, would you buy a Marantz or a Yamaha. The same with Harman and Pioneer.

Please tell which harman reciever in the 20k range are you recommending. I did some extensive listening on Harman at the budget end recently, so i'd be interested in which products elicit such a rave response from you.

EDIT::: Though for the life of me, i cannot recollect an harman AVR at the lower end of 20Ks

EDIT2::: as it happens, I rue the fact that i could not audition Pioneer before making a purchase decision. in fact, i'd wait for techboy to post his review of harmon and then I'll give my review as well..

 

[hemantwaghe]

At 20k, Harman receivers would beat Pioneer receivers. That is what I meant. I am not talking of elite receivers, of which I don't know.

I am talking of low-mid level receivers from Pioneer and low level stuff from Harman.

And it is a known fact that Harman and Marantz come in the same league whereas Pioneer is at least one to two notches lower.

If you were to buy a receiver for 30k, would you buy a Marantz or a Yamaha. The same with Harman and Pioneer.

SO GIVE US MODEL NOS..Harman and Pioneer one...
and have you heard any pioneer avr?
ALSO HAVE YOU HEARD PIONEER AVR AGAINST HARMAN WITH SAME SPEAKERS AND SOURCE?

You do not know Pioneer elite - that is apparent from your post hyeah:hyeah:but have you ever heard of pioneer kuro?

also where you auditioned pioneer avr in india as I myself looking for pioneer audition for my friend..

So according to you HDMI ,HD decoding is not important?
also is listening MP3 or music around 754.5 kbit/s on harman rig will be better than listening uncompressed sound on pioneer rig? I want your expert opinion...

 

[kapvin]

Hi Hemant,

off topic, but are you using the Sansui AVR right now? if so, could you post your impressions? (maybe in a separate thread

kapvin

 

[TechHead]

LOL! Techboy? You guys actually give him and his opinions credence?

 

[kapvin]

LOL! Techboy? You guys actually give him and his opinions credence?

No, but there are plenty of newer entrants into hifi who could possibly be guided into all sorts of misconceptions / purchase misadventures.

and this is not the only one. there is another thread going on around here on how to tame the unruly treble of a speaker.. and if it were not frightening it would be funny.. feeding a 1khz signal to a tweeter that's designed to handle above 6k, and then driving it to close to max volumes, could not really be great for the tweeter's health.

And if the listeners are unable to hear differences in sound quality, one can surmise (other than listeners having lead ears), that the said tweeters have already departed to the great hi-fi store in the sky

 

[techboy]

I only meant that if everything is same, and you use MP3s or Audio CDs with this setup:

Harman Kardon AVR 134 20k
Pioneer 820 or lower, anything which is available for an MRP of 20k or less locally

Then in terms of sound quality the Harman should be better.

If you consider a 30k Pioneer to a 20k Harman, you aren't exactly doing justice to either.

But at the same price point.

 

[hemantwaghe]

again have you heard pioneer yourself?
whr?
cause I never saw pioneer AVR available officialy
which model?
What you used with test sample?
which speakers were with puioneer ..u used same speakers with harman? how you did that?

anytime heard audio cd on normal 2 channel system?

readers will understand I am just asking basic testing procedure questions?

I used haram AVR and had and currently have pioneer products ( DVD and 100 Cd changer) manytimes in past I had JBL ( i think with Harman you atre referring JBL SBS 140 BK, I had those too)
SO I AM NOT FANBOY OF EITHER CAMP.

Just understanding your statement..

BTW your favorithe HK 134 doesn't decode DTS HD_MA ( If you understand what I am talking...

 

[sudhishkv]

Sorry for cross posting. Since Kapvin mentioned about the speaker modification, I am responding to that.

If that sounds funny to you, you are welcome to laugh, because laughing is good for your health It also made me happy when it sounded just the way I wanted.

Now on a serious note

I dont recommend this modification to anyone on other speakers. It can damage your tweeter.
As you know, 9.6 have 4 drivers. We are discussing about tweeter and so called mid range. If you open cover and examine the mid range speaker its just like a big tweeter. It doesnt have any holes behind the cone. It is totally cover just like the tweeter. It might be able to handle more power than the actual tweeter. Thats when I decided to interchange the wires, which actually worked. After that I started if with different volume levels. At this point I was ready to buy a new tweeter if it burns out. I exactly knew the risk I am taking. I liked the sound which was coming form both the mid range as well as the tweeter. That is the only motivating factor to test it at higher volumes. Till now nothing happened. Actually before putting it up for sale, I have researched how to reduce the volume of a tweeter. And I know that I have to use two resisters one in parallel and other one in series. The values of the resisters depend on your speaker resistance and the amount of volume (db) you want to reduce. I will be doing the actual modification using the resistance mostly by this week end. I didnt get time to visit the electronics shop since I was busy working.
Sudhish.