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Plinth material

Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers

Finyl Vinyl

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Hi All,

Would appreciate of anyone could tell me if aluminum or acrylic would be a suitable surface for a Garrard 401? Also would this extend to the entire units casing also?

Thanks for your inputs in advance.

RJ
 

stevieboy

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hi finyl vinyl,

if money is not an issue you could look at importing these layered wood designs floating around on ebay.

301 garrard plinth, Electronics. Great deals on eBay!

they make for both 301 and 401 on order if you ask i think. i was looking at one of these myself, the $120 one for starters.

for plinths i have not yet come across a plinth made from either material. because most are layered plinths (usually wood) and not solid block.

for my end plinth i am eyeing the slatedeck plinths made of slate :licklips:

if you're looking to custom make your own plinth do choose a layered wood, from what i've read, a sort of plywood structured wood if you can get what i mean :D is ideal. birchwood seems to be first choice for many. there was a hong kong guy who made a plinth from the slatedeck guys out of granite. this was a single slab with the cutouts for the garrard and arm.

then there's the shindo plinth ;)

regards
 

Finyl Vinyl

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hi finyl vinyl,

if money is not an issue you could look at importing these layered wood designs floating around on ebay.

301 garrard plinth, Electronics. Great deals on eBay!

they make for both 301 and 401 on order if you ask i think. i was looking at one of these myself, the $120 one for starters.

for plinths i have not yet come across a plinth made from either material. because most are layered plinths (usually wood) and not solid block.

for my end plinth i am eyeing the slatedeck plinths made of slate :licklips:

if you're looking to custom make your own plinth do choose a layered wood, from what i've read, a sort of plywood structured wood if you can get what i mean :D is ideal. birchwood seems to be first choice for many. there was a hong kong guy who made a plinth from the slatedeck guys out of granite. this was a single slab with the cutouts for the garrard and arm.

then there's the shindo plinth ;)

regards

Boy... is this complicated or what? I'm more of a music guy than gear guy. It is currently mounted on a 10mm ply plinth, made 35 years ago. Just wanted to change the way it looks.
 

anilva

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Granite and Corian (Dupont stuff) are other options. But the easiest way is to have nearly 5-6 layers of MDF / Plywood glued together and cut out made for the shape required by 401.

Cheers.
 

stevieboy

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whoa! :D

then you're definitely missing out on what the garrard can do! from all reports, the vibration from that powerful motor has to be dissipated and hence the need for a good plinth. the $120 plinth on ebay ought to be a good starting point. i'd strongly suggest avoiding diy. you could make an acrylic cover for your plinth though, a simple box affair. the benefit is the plinths come with slot for arm so less trouble for you and less chance of making a mistake in a diy build with your local carpenter.

my garrard is similarly situated in an ancient ply box awaiting resurrection!
 

G401fan

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I'd resurrected mine own 401 from its ancient case, getting a local carpenter to make a box of smaller size to fit my mounting shelf. Naturally, it could then only accommodate a 9" arm, in my case an SME 3009. The plinth is a relatively simple box with the top surface of 20mm plywood(marine ply), with the sides made of teak wood. It sounds great to me, though, who knows, it could possibly be improved.

The design options are based on two principles: Energy absorbtion - massive, thick plinths, and Energy utilisation, the latter to try and turn the idler drive energy to boost the 'kick' factor that the 401/301s are famous for.

Incidentally, the motor vibration is not the prime concern - it is suspended on 6 springs which effectively take care of that. Rather, the motor spindle/idler wheel/platter/bearing interface that, if not smooth as silk, can transmit vibrations that will be picked up by the stylus/tonearm. If you oil the motor, have a true idler wheel (use sandpaper on the 78 speed carefully to make it as true as possible, outside of using a lathe device), clean the inner rim of the platter, and also oil the centre spindle bearing (and hopefully, there is no 'play' there), then you're on your way.

Here's a good link which may be of some help:

Diy'ing A Time Machine

the main site has a lot of info/photos of plinth designs sent in by Garrard aficianados.

rgds
 

stevieboy

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finyl vinyl,

i forgot the loricraft style plinths that involve the top wood sheet sitting on rubber suspension platforms in all four corners. something like that. you can check it out online. this is the other option to a layered plinth stacked one sheet on another.

regards
 

Finyl Vinyl

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Granite and Corian (Dupont stuff) are other options. But the easiest way is to have nearly 5-6 layers of MDF / Plywood glued together and cut out made for the shape required by 401.

Cheers.

I work for a furniture manufacturer. We have extensive MDF and particle board usage. I spoke with the head of design and production. Cutting the board is not a problem. Just whack the template into a CAD drawing and the machine will cut accordingly. The hassle is how to layer, glue and fix 4-5 boards of 1" to 1.5"? He says that the equipment for that is specialised. And then this thick mother needs to be laminated with a special membrane that looks like high gloss finish teak or something like that

I'm going to try and get him to work a solution.
 

Finyl Vinyl

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The design options are based on two principles: Energy absorbtion - massive, thick plinths, and Energy utilisation, the latter to try and turn the idler drive energy to boost the 'kick' factor that the 401/301s are famous for.

Please elaborate

Incidentally, the motor vibration is not the prime concern - it is suspended on 6 springs which effectively take care of that. Rather, the motor spindle/idler wheel/platter/bearing interface that, if not smooth as silk, can transmit vibrations that will be picked up by the stylus/tonearm. If you oil the motor, have a true idler wheel (use sandpaper on the 78 speed carefully to make it as true as possible, outside of using a lathe device), clean the inner rim of the platter, and also oil the centre spindle bearing (and hopefully, there is no 'play' there), then you're on your way.

How do you oil the spindle? and why sandpaper the 78 speed? how do you take the platter off in the first place?

RSVP post haste: Mother serious, sister anxious father delirious. Munna hasn't eaten in four days and has not gone to school. Even the dog is forlorn. Need to know how all this is done.
 

Rajiv

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i forgot the loricraft style plinths that involve the top wood sheet sitting on rubber suspension platforms in all four corners. something like that. you can check it out online. this is the other option to a layered plinth stacked one sheet on another.

Hi,

Squash balls to be exact.In the loricraft plinths there are triangular wooden corner braces, with a hole cut in them that the balls rest in so they dont roll.The plank that the TT is mounted on is around one and a half inch thick.


I have tried both the soild layered plinth (marine ply) and the skeletal plinth resting on squash balls.

I prefer the skeletal plinth, it sounds a little more relaxed. The solid plinth has better bass and leading edge transients,but sounds over controled and relentless after a while.

Regards
Rajiv
 

stevieboy

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Please elaborate



How do you oil the spindle? and why sandpaper the 78 speed? how do you take the platter off in the first place?

RSVP post haste: Mother serious, sister anxious father delirious. Munna hasn't eaten in four days and has not gone to school. Even the dog is forlorn. Need to know how all this is done.

LOL finyl you're a riot and i can see you just itching to get it going :D well i can help you with the platter bit. yer supposed to tap gently on the top spindle and lift the platter up. ideally helps to have two people do this. the spindle is a taper fit so a gentle tap with a wooden thingie ought to release it a bit. gently does it else the forlorn dog is gonna howl at the moon for many a moon ;) oiling there is a felt roundel at the base of the spindle that you'll see once you lift the platter. if its very old simply replace with new felt cut to fit! simply put a few drops in, i forget whether its a few drops or you're supposed to get it really wet g401fan can clarify or you can check online. there is a complete strip step by step process online done by this guy who makes his own 14" arms forget his name right now... gimme a few days i'll dig up info i've saved and forward to you.

regards

EDIT: please dont use MDF! from all reports not a good material. even the link that ummm was it g401fan posted the guy in that link says that mdf sounds deadish.
 

stevieboy

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Hi,

Squash balls to be exact.
Regards
Rajiv

hi rajiv,

thanks for the info. thought they used a custom rubber thing.. so basically a wood box with corner braces with a hole for squash ball in middle, not touching sides of box and place top slab with garrard in it on this? what wood did you use for the box and for the top slab?

regards
 

Finyl Vinyl

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well i can help you with the platter bit. yer supposed to tap gently on the top spindle and lift the platter up. ideally helps to have two people do this. the spindle is a taper fit so a gentle tap with a wooden thingie ought to release it a bit. gently does it else the forlorn dog is gonna howl at the moon for many a moon ;) oiling there is a felt roundel at the base of the spindle that you'll see once you lift the platter. if its very old simply replace with new felt cut to fit! simply put a few drops in, i forget whether its a few drops or you're supposed to get it really wet g401fan can clarify or you can check online. there is a complete strip step by step process online done by this guy who makes his own 14" arms forget his name right now... gimme a few days i'll dig up info i've saved and forward to you.

regards

EDIT: please dont use MDF! from all reports not a good material. even the link that ummm was it g401fan posted the guy in that link says that mdf sounds deadish.

Many thanks. Look forward to the info. When you're talking slate, do you mean that black stuff they use on blackboards or the stuff they use under billiards tables. Mahi, if you're following this thread, do you know who sells slate to table manufacturers?
 

Finyl Vinyl

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Hi,

Squash balls to be exact.In the loricraft plinths there are triangular wooden corner braces, with a hole cut in them that the balls rest in so they dont roll.The plank that the TT is mounted on is around one and a half inch thick.

Are the holes drilled through and through or only on one surface? Is the plinth teak/acrylic/ply? I'm assuming marine is ply or international standard packing crate wood

I have tried both the soild layered plinth (marine ply) and the skeletal plinth resting on squash balls.

I prefer the skeletal plinth, it sounds a little more relaxed. The solid plinth has better bass and leading edge transients,but sounds over controled and relentless after a while.

Wouldn't this automatically mean that you don't need to drive your woofers too much? do you enclose the skeletal plinth from the front, sides and back? If not, how do you control dust?
 

G401fan

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FinylVinyl,
The large motors of idler drives (Garrard 401/301 and Thorens TD124 are the prime examples, but there's also Connoisseur, Rek-o-Kut, Russco, Lenco among others) are largely unaffected by groove/stylus friction especially when that increases in bass-heavy passages, and therefore ensures stability in speed, which is the major contributor to the authoritative sound of idler drives, in addition to bearing design, heavy duty platters and also the fact that the drive is applied at the rim, rather than at the centre like in direct-drive TTs.

You can remove the platter as Stevieboy suggested. It's a struggle the first time around, but gets easier after that.

You can oil the motor and the bearing (there's a small screw to be opened to pour oil into the bearing well, plus you need to wet the felt pad with oil, standard Singer machine oil is just fine) after getting the platter off. You can get detailed instructions from the 401 manual, which is downloadable from Vinyl Engine | The Home of the Turntable

In case your idler wheel (rubber) has been well used, it may no longer be fully circular(true state). It's easier to buff it into some sort of shape, at a higher speed. So, after removing the platter, and setting the speed to 78, start the TT, and gently hold a 390 grade sand paper to the side of the idler wheel. Make sure the force you apply is even all around.

Ply wood for the surface of the plinth is recommended as it can contain vibration better than solid wood, or MDF (avoid). That said, there are plenty of plinth designs on the Net which you could try out, what with your access to a furniture shop/CAD machining.

Cheers!
 

grubyhalo

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Depends...
...The hassle is how to layer, glue and fix 4-5 boards of 1" to 1.5"? He says that the equipment for that is specialised. And then this thick mother needs to be laminated with a special membrane that looks like high gloss finish teak or something like that

I'm going to try and get him to work a solution.

I may not know anything I'm talking about, but I was wondering, how about glueing the different layers with the basic rectangle shape and pressing together through a large wooden press and then doing the cuts, carvings and the drillings? Lead-shots too could be added through cavities on alternate layers of the ply and sealed with epoxy for added mass.

Rajiv,
How do you think a mass-loaded TT on layer of wood suspended on squash balls would fare? Would this be better than mounting the TT on spikes?
 

stevieboy

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Many thanks. Look forward to the info. When you're talking slate, do you mean that black stuff they use on blackboards or the stuff they use under billiards tables. Mahi, if you're following this thread, do you know who sells slate to table manufacturers?

hi finyl vinyl,

do check out SLATEDECK HOME PAGE. its a welsh slate that is layered in nature. highly regarded like the shindo plinths, both of a different design school and the loricraft a third. take your pick! :)

there are online reviews of each type of plinth. i have not bookmarked them so you'll have to do a google for each.

regards
 

Rajiv

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what wood did you use for the box and for the top slab?

Hi,

Steven, I used two planks of 18mm ply glued togetherfor the top plate.

How do you think a mass-loaded TT on layer of wood suspended on squash balls would fare? Would this be better than mounting the TT on spikes?

@grubyhalo,never tried the squash balls under a mass loaded plinth, but most of the mass loaded plinths I have seen have wooden blocks or spikes under them.

Are the holes drilled through and through or only on one surface? Is the plinth teak/acrylic/ply? I'm assuming marine is ply or international standard packing crate wood

@finyl vinyl There are no holes just depressions just deep enough for the balls not to roll out.Yes, Marine is ply.

do you enclose the skeletal plinth from the front, sides and back? If not, how do you control dust?

I did not enclose the skeletal plinth,I used four wooden blocks with depressions for the squash balls and placed the top plate on it.

Dust is a big problem especially in Madras.

Regards
Rajiv
 
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