PM6002 vs CA540A v2? (Urgent)

[venkatcr]

i think the upper limit would be 25K..although as you may perhaps have experienced ..one may be willing to be open to some amount of upward revision..thanks ..

I think the main options are Marantz 6002, the NAD 525BEE, and the CA Azur 640C V2. Since you have an NAD amp, you should first look at the NAD CD player as they will jell well together.

Audition all three and decide which one you like.

Cheers

 

[Asit]

I chose the DacMagic as i have heard a lot about them & also read a lot of user reviews elsewhere.They have said that when paired with a decent DVD player or playing your Laptop through the DacMagic, the sound is better than any similarly priced CD player & even better than the CA 740C CD player. That's why i chose the DacMagic as i can then connect my Laptop to it & even connect a PS3 or a XBOX if i plan to buy them in the future.

Hifiplayer,

I just happened to audition the CA Dacmagic yesterday for an extended period of time with Quad 99 pre amp. Quad 909 power amp, Epos 12.2 speakers with XLO interconnects and Ecosse speaker cables.

BTW, I also own a CA 740c CDP.

Frankly I was disappointed by the Dacmagic. You cannot say the Dacmagic was let down by other components in the above setup. Actually I was there to audition the pre/power amps. The Dacmagic was lying there nearby. So I requested the store person to connect it to the pre amp. The store person was very reluctant, and he said you would not like it. But I was just curious, because I also heard a lot about it, based on hearsay I even suggested somebody in some thread in this forum to take a look at it. However, at the audition yesterday, it did not please me at all.

On my judgement, it may be around the same quality as CA 640c v2, which is good enough, although I am not even sure of that. But it came out way way behind the CA 740c and also Cayin CD-50T, used mainly in yesterday's auditions. For several very different redbook CD albums (recorded abroad), we did instantaneous switching of the sources between the CDP and the Dacmagic (with CDP being used as the transport and a TOSLINK cable connecting the CDP and the Dacmagic), and each time the music from the Dacmagic came out as less detailed, and kind of muted or veiled.

In any case, this is an expected result, because the Dacmagic is supposed to be an entry level DAC. I would not even think of comparing it with the 740c which also costs double the amount of a Dacmagic.

I really urge you to audition and make a decision by yourself. Use the magazine reviews as only another opinion, unless it is trusted source.

 

[vinod_david]

Hey,

Thanks Vinod for your reply. Have finalized on the above combo. Will buy them around 2nd week of Feb. Will surely share my experience later when i get them

Good. Hope to hear from you after installation.

 

[Hifiplayer]

Hi Asit,

Thanks for your reply.

What i understood from your reply is that you kept the CDp as the source to the DacMagic & played the music through it. Right?

This will not give you the output that the DacMagic is capable of. If you want to get the best out of the DacMagic 7 really see what its capable of then you need to play lossless (wav or Flac) files through it. For this you need to connect your laptop or comp directly to the DacMagic.

Just try it if you can & and i am sure you'll be amazed.

 

[vinod_david]

hifiplayer -

How do u compare 6002 amp and 640A V2 amp ?

 

[Asit]

Hi Asit,

Thanks for your reply.

What i understood from your reply is that you kept the CDp as the source to the DacMagic & played the music through it. Right?

This will not give you the output that the DacMagic is capable of. If you want to get the best out of the DacMagic 7 really see what its capable of then you need to play lossless (wav or Flac) files through it. For this you need to connect your laptop or comp directly to the DacMagic.

Just try it if you can & and i am sure you'll be amazed.

I really do not know what to say.

What is the bit-rate and sampling frequency of a wav file you are talking about? Wav is a lossless format. I am not talking about a mp3 or some such lossy format. I do NOT listen to such music. The redbook CD format is 16bit, 44.1kHz. And that is the minimum I listen to. I do not listen to even a copied CD, forget about lossy format. Do you really know what you are talking about here?

I have used a Cayin tube CDP 50T (cost Rs 50K) as a transport and used a digital optical output of the CDP to connect it to the Dacmagic.

I do have a Macbook Pro laptop, but I intend to use it as a transport only when I have music better than a redbook CD format (I have quite a lot of music at 24bit, 96kHz), because that higher resolution digital music does not come in a disc. Even here I am not sure if the Macbook pro will really play the 24/96 music or a downscaled 16/44 music. I have to make some tests to ascertain that. Then I can use the 740c as the DAC, because it has digital in ports.

Hifiplayer, I have no intention of preaching. Please do whatever you want based on your information. I only suggest you to get the correct information. In any case I do not agree with the philosophy you have adopted of buying some speakers worth half or one-third of reasonably capable amps and then coupling with even more expensive DAC. I agree 100% with particleman that your speakers should be better. I just hope you be happy with your music.

I just wanted to clarify a few things so that any newcomer does not get confused, because there may others who would read these posts.

 

[Hifiplayer]

Vinod:

I heard the 640A v2 sometime back so don't really remember the sound. Although in reviews they claimed that PM6002 is better than the 640. But i have now started to believe that the reviews can only guide you & may not always be true for your kind of taste. I feel the 640 has the better bass & is more dynamic and more suited to all kind of music specially when driving bigger speakers as 640 is 70wpc & 6002 is 45wpc. Also i feel that the source is also very important for an amps output (almost like a better half ). For example, pair the PM6002 with the matching CD6002 & the sound to my ears is very bright specially when you want to hear for long hours. Replace the CD with a CA CDp & you'll immediately notice that the sound becomes more full bodied, smoother & non-fatiguing. Try this with the 'Poems of Gulzar' CD from 'Dus Kahaniyaan' & you'll understand what i am talking about. Although reviews say that PM6002 is more musical than the 640Av2, i personal like the CA sound better & my vote will go to the 640Av2 (particularly when driving bigger speakers). Also the price is more or less the same. If you notice, the CA products are more sensibly priced in India than the Marantz. So for me better value for money.

What's your opinion on them?

 

[nirrej]

Hifiplayer,

You can audition CA and MS combo at Hometalkies in chennai.
It is near Laxman Shruti musicals in Ashok nagar.
They are the authorised retailers for chennai.
CA 540 is around 20K. MS 902i Rs.12k.

If you want to audition Wharfedale and CA combo
The dealer is Grand Cinema near Meenakshi college, kodambakkam, Chennai.
They are the authoried dealer for Wharfedale though they sell CA also.

Marantz dealer is Refex Pro Acoustics, T.nagar Chennai.
he doesnt have a perfectly isolated audition room with wooden floors
or padded walls. just a room with normal tiles and cement walls.
but thats the way most of or houses are.. it would give a realtime
effect of how the equipment will sound once brought home.

regarding Marantz price, though the official price of PM6002 is 24k
i got a much better baragin, at 18 k as the piece was a opened one.
but it was brand new. I checked for any scratches or dust and found
none. Bought with a little scepticism but no probs till now..

 

[Hifiplayer]

Asit:

I understand that its difficult to believe what i am saying & the DacMagic also may not be better than the 740c. I am also not talking about mp3 or any downloaded lossy file. I don't want anyone to believe me rather try it & make your own opnion.

Asit, when you use the CDp as a source to the DacMagic, it plays the CD and sends the output to the DM. Whereas when you connect your laptop to the DM, you send the song digitally to the DM rather than playing it (might be completely wrong over here). Just giving some links. Check them out.

What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - DacMagic VS same priced cd-player

What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - Cambridge Audio Dacmagic

What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - Air and Magic

What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - New CD Player or DacMagic?

What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision - Question about using a DACMagic with PC soundcard



Again i would say that not to believe in what i am saying, rather just audition them & get your own opinion. I chose the DM because i have other sources as well that i would like to connect to it rather than the DVD player & i am not going to buy the DM right now, rather after a couple of months (as i am on a very tight budget)

As far as my speakers go - Asit, i understand what you & particaleman are saying. But i guess one needs to understand that everyone has their own limitations (financial or otherwise). I have a very tight budget, a very small room (10*10 ft) & can only do within that. With my budget i could do only two things:

1. mid-priced speakers + cheap amp + cheap CD + Cheap DVD

2. Cheap speakers + mid priced amps + mid-priced CD + ok DVD

I chose the latter as i am getting the speakers for only 6k & thought they were a steal at that price. Tomorrow if i wanna upgrade, have a bigger room (if & when i have the money) i can happily change the speakers without it pinching me too much or worrying about the amp being able to drive them.

I never asked anyone to believe in my philosophy. I am doing what i am doing because i have a particular budget & want to strictly stick to that. Its proven that the more money you put, the better you'll get. But then, one needs to be practical as well.

Again, in the end i would like say just one thing to everyone that don't believe in me or anyone here as the reviews or the opinion here can only guide us. No one is an expert. We need to take the demo's ourselves & let our ears do the decision making.

 

[Hifiplayer]

Nirrej,

Thanks for the effort. Really appreciate that. Although might not help me much as i am from Delhi.

Congratulations on the amp. What's the system that you have got?

 

[Asit]

Hifiplayer Bhaiya,

I have now understood the confusion. Actually I would say you probably did not read my previous two mails carefully. There you would notice that both times I have categorically said that the CDP was used only as transport, that means basically for the data reading and nothing else. In addition, a CD player then does a digital to analog conversion (DAC). Whether you use the DAC part of the CDP or not depends on the choice of the output. If you take the analog outputs from the CDP through stereo cables with RCA interconnects, you are using the DAC part of the CDP and the sound that is coming out is analog. This can be then fed to the inputs of an amp. I suppose this analog sound cannot be fed to a standalone DAC equipment like the Dacmagic, because I would suppose they would not have analog inputs, because as the name suggests it is a device where digital signal goes in and analog signal come out.

Now every CDP and DVDP has also at least one digital output. Most have two, a digital coaxial port and a digital optical (TOSLINK port) output. When you use one of these outputs, the CDP is configured to bypass the DAC section of the CDP and only digital signal comes out. You will see now in my previous two mails that I also categorically mentioned that the CDP and the Dacmagic were connected by a digital optical cable.

I hope the above helps. Perhaps I should have explained it all before. I assumed you knew all this, but I should not have. Please believe me, it's not a shame. I also did not know many of these things in the beginning. With time (about 25 years of listening with stereo separates) and a bit of effort and a lot of help from the forum members recently I have come to understand some of these things.

About your speakers selection, I now understand your thinking, and I tend to agree with what you have written. I know very well about working within a budget, because all my life I have faced it quite severly. But, whenever you can, please do upgrade your speakers at a later time and you will come to enjoy your music more, I am sure.

 

[venkatcr]

Asit, when you use the CDp as a source to the DacMagic, it plays the CD and sends the output to the DM. Whereas when you connect your laptop to the DM, you send the song digitally to the DM rather than playing it (might be completely wrong over here). Just giving some links. Check them out.

HiFiPlayer, whether you use a CD or a PC, you can send the data only in digital form to the DAC engine. Most CD players have optical and coaxial digital out, and if you are using a external DAC, it is better to use these connections. External DAC will not accept data in analogue form.

Now to Asit's point about DACMagic's (DM) performance, whether an external DAC is good or not, only your ear can judge. Maybe the store keeper was not able to set up the DM properly. The DM is supposed to have a number of filter options as well as decoding options. I suspect it needs a bit of setting up and experimentation before it can deliver good results.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

I have edited this post and removed all unwarranted material.

Cheers

 

[anm]

what speakers do you have?

regards

Hifiplayer,

You can audition CA and MS combo at Hometalkies in chennai.
It is near Laxman Shruti musicals in Ashok nagar.
They are the authorised retailers for chennai.
CA 540 is around 20K. MS 902i Rs.12k.

If you want to audition Wharfedale and CA combo
The dealer is Grand Cinema near Meenakshi college, kodambakkam, Chennai.
They are the authoried dealer for Wharfedale though they sell CA also.

Marantz dealer is Refex Pro Acoustics, T.nagar Chennai.
he doesnt have a perfectly isolated audition room with wooden floors
or padded walls. just a room with normal tiles and cement walls.
but thats the way most of or houses are.. it would give a realtime
effect of how the equipment will sound once brought home.

regarding Marantz price, though the official price of PM6002 is 24k
i got a much better baragin, at 18 k as the piece was a opened one.
but it was brand new. I checked for any scratches or dust and found
none. Bought with a little scepticism but no probs till now..

 

[anm]

Venkat,
Hope your post quoting the original one also gets removed

This post is unwarranted, and I have requested the moderator to remove it. I am sorry Reddy Siva, but you cannot use words like that here. This cannot be done even in humour, and even if you know the person very well.

Cheers

 

[moserw]

Venkat,
Hope your post quoting the original one also gets removed

Yup, Venkatji will edit it.

 

[Asit]

This is a possibility Venkat that it was not set up right. I was also a bit puzzled by the results. I tried pressing the buttons corresponding to the different filtering options, it hardly made a difference. Anyway we listened to the option that sounded best.

Venkat, do not worry about the other mail. Because of the changing world, a lot is happening I cannot agree with. I have learnt to take these in my stride, but if these cause unhappiness and create an atmosphere of name calling, I rather not post here any more. The poster did not even notice that how hard I am trying to explain the facts and results of the auditions, rather than spreading just hearsay or some magazine reports, and also did not notice that hifiplayer kept on making the same mistake without doing the homework. I consider that if I am a member of this forum, it is my responsibility to correct any wrong notions and I expect other people to correct me whenever I have a wrong opinion. I am also trained to be a person like that because of me being a scientist. I am a Bengali, more than that I am an Indian and proud to be one. Bye.

 

[venkatcr]

Venkat, do not worry about the other mail. Because of the changing world, a lot is happening I cannot agree with. I have learnt to take these in my stride, but if these cause unhappiness and create an atmosphere of name calling, I rather not post here any more. The poster did not even notice that how hard I am trying to explain the facts and results of the auditions, rather than spreading just hearsay or some magazine reports, and also did not notice that hifiplayer kept on making the same mistake without doing the homework. I consider that if I am a member of this forum, it is my responsibility to correct any wrong notions and I expect other people to correct me whenever I have a wrong opinion. I am also trained to be a person like that because of me being a scientist. I am a Bengali, more than that I am an Indian and proud to be one. Bye.

Asit, let me apologise on behalf of all the members of this forum to you. That particular post was completely unwarranted and thankfully the moderator has removed it.

I for one have been reading all your posts and your observations with interest, and I must admit your posts have been adding to my knowledge. All of us have our own theories about sound, music, and video. At the same time, we all also have the magnanimity to respect each other's views. Many of us give advise based upon our own experience. What the OP or the person to whom we are giving advise does is purely his own choice.

I have friends from all cultures, many states and many religions. They are all my friends and some of them I have known for many many years.

Your postings have be of immense help to members here, and I would request you to forget this stupid incident. Let us all continue discussing what we love most - audio and video and the technology behind it. Asit, I sincerely look forward to seeing more of your posts. I am sure all members would agree with me.

Cheers

 

[vinod_david]

Vinod:

I heard the 640A v2 sometime back so don't really remember the sound. Although in reviews they claimed that PM6002 is better than the 640. But i have now started to believe that the reviews can only guide you & may not always be true for your kind of taste. I feel the 640 has the better bass & is more dynamic and more suited to all kind of music specially when driving bigger speakers as 640 is 70wpc & 6002 is 45wpc. Also i feel that the source is also very important for an amps output (almost like a better half ). For example, pair the PM6002 with the matching CD6002 & the sound to my ears is very bright specially when you want to hear for long hours. Replace the CD with a CA CDp & you'll immediately notice that the sound becomes more full bodied, smoother & non-fatiguing. Try this with the 'Poems of Gulzar' CD from 'Dus Kahaniyaan' & you'll understand what i am talking about. Although reviews say that PM6002 is more musical than the 640Av2, i personal like the CA sound better & my vote will go to the 640Av2 (particularly when driving bigger speakers). Also the price is more or less the same. If you notice, the CA products are more sensibly priced in India than the Marantz. So for me better value for money.

What's your opinion on them?

Hi:

Thanks for your observation. You indeed love CA products, it's official now . Yeah, I do have CA 640A V2 for almost an year now along with CA 640C V2 driving a Walnut-colored MA RS6 FS. Overall SQ is very involving, huge soundstage, excellent separation of instruments, and as usual enough bass to disturb the neighbours , but could be better...(is it an upgrade itch that i got ?)

I asked you for comparision coz i feel 640 is not THE amp for a speaker like RS6, and may be it needs a much better amp than 640, so thought in the line of 6002/7001/7003 (arcam, 840A, Naim...) could drive RS6 much better. Well, it's just my experience that I had with this combo for 1 year thats making me think like this.

All in all, excellent amp this 640, but I feel it's showing off its age, just my thought.

PS - never heard PM6002 so far.