Pre-Amp or New receiver?

HiFiMART.com

Sumit

Active Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
435
Points
28
Location
UP/India
I have my receiver Marantz SR5001 up for sale because it lacks the juice for my setup.
However, I thought just came to my mind that instead of buying a new receiver maybe I can use a pre-amp and reduce the load on the receiver.

I don't know much on this subject. If anybody has knowledge if yhis can be done then I am all ears!!

How is the pre-amp connected to the receiver?

Thanks.
 

awedeophile

Active Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
297
Points
28
Location
India
I have my receiver Marantz SR5001 up for sale because it lacks the juice for my setup.
However, I thought just came to my mind that instead of buying a new receiver maybe I can use a pre-amp and reduce the load on the receiver.

I don't know much on this subject. If anybody has knowledge if yhis can be done then I am all ears!!

How is the pre-amp connected to the receiver?

Thanks.

A preamp is not going to reduce the load on your receiver!!!
What you want is a power amp. That can be connected if your receiver has Preamp Outputs.
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Sumit Am very sorry to say,but that will not make sense nor is it practical to do it ! especially with the said AVR !! So just forget about this and either use or sell as originally planned !!

The reason is simple !

1.An AVR cannot be used as pre-amp in most cases since lacks the necessary outputs for it ! though the multichannel in is present !
2. There is absolutely no sense in making an AVR power amp and use a separate Pre for obvious reasons !
3. Also by not using the pre part of the AVR things are no way be better ! I honestly don't know from where or who you got that idea !

So what I'd say is the above or one more option for you ! The AVR (your 5001) has the multichannel pre-out so instead of buying a new AVR you can buy a power amp from a decent brand and use it to power the speakers and control it using the existing AVR !!

Hope this solves your dilemma !!

Regards.
 

awedeophile

Active Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
297
Points
28
Location
India
Soundsgreat, I'm a bit confused.
You say: "An AVR cannot be used as pre-amp in most cases since lacks the necessary outputs for it "

Then you say:
"The AVR (your 5001) has the multichannel pre-out so instead of buying a new AVR you can buy a power amp from a decent brand and use it to power the speakers and control it using the existing AVR !!"

If it has pre-outs he can very easily connect power amps and solve his "juice" problem. Can he not? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Yes Awedeophile what meant is most (Means not all) of the AVR's don't have the necessary preouts for Ex Yamaha 361,461, Marantz 301,3001,Denon 1508,1708 etc etc I can go on !! Hence the statement:) !!

Now the reason I suggested him to use it as pre is coz the above statement is not applicable to him as the AVR does have the needed outputs (does not belong to the above said "most" category);) ! Yes so he can connect the power amp solve the said problem/issue !!

Hope I've made myself clear !! so if still Am wrong please correct me !!

Regards.
 
Last edited:

dinyaar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,604
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Hi Sumit,
Generally speaking an AV receiver can be used as a pre(means u connect it to a power amp) OR as a power amp(means u connect a preamp and just use the power of ur AVR).
You mention it lacks the JUICE for ur set up. In that case by connecting a preamp to it you are still going to get the same power(JUICE) output so this exercise is futile.
Please cut your losses and sell this receiver and buy a bigger receiver.
BTW what speakers have u got? Also a processor+multi channel power amp will be much more expensive than a budget AVR.
Regards
 

RB9

New Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
124
Points
0
hi sumit,

by using the pre out u can use another power amp but doing that you are converting your multi channel system into two channels :confused:!!!!! its better buy better avr................. pls check the site before you buy another avr !!!!!! save your money and invest in a future proof avr !!:)

Home Theater: HT Guide To AVR Features



regards
 

Sumit

Active Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
435
Points
28
Location
UP/India
Thank you all for the valuable suggestions. After reading the various suggestions,here are my thoughts:

1.Pre-amp doesn't make sense.
2.Power amp can be connected but then I would be converting my multichannel into two channel. If this is true then I don't need it as I have a dedicated 7.1 HT.
3. I think I will go for a new AVR. I am not going for a budget AVR. I already have a budget AVR, Marantz SR5001 90W/ch which is practically new. I want a powerful AVR which is gr8 for movies.

I am now looking at Marantz SR7002, Denon 2808, NAD T765 and Onkyo 805.
I don't think onkyo 875 is worth for me as it has gr8 video upscaler (Reon) which I don't need. So for 10W/ch more, i don't think it makes sense for added cost.
Please let me know your suggestions. If there is any other make or model please mention the same.

Please suggest me an AVR with following criteria in mind:

I watch 80% movies and rest music. Shd be powerful.
I have specific needs
I Need a HDMI1.3a.
I Don't need video upscaler. I just need a HDMI switch which can pass 1080p.
Shd have depth for movies.
Shd have OSD through HDMI.

My Gear:
Marantz DVD Player upscaler to 720p DV4001
Marantz AVR Sr5001
PSB Image T55
PSB C60 Center
Mordaunt Short Bipolars
Crystal Audio THX selct Active sub with 12" driver
Mitsubishi HC1500 720p projector.

Thanks.
 

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,167
Points
113
Location
Chennai
Sumit:

I just looked up the specs of the 5001 and it seems to be a very decent amplifier. So before you rush to sell it off, see if you can do the following.

Your AVR has 90x7 watts or a total of 630 watts. Generally, this means 90 watts per channel ALL channels driven. Unless you have extremely high resistance speakers, this should suffice for a room of about 2000 odd cubic feet.

One easy way to alleviate this problem is to buy a two channel power amp or even an integrated amp that has say 100 watts per channel. Use the per out capabilities of the AVR to drive this amp to just the front right and left speakers. In your AVR set the front left and right speaker as 'not present'.

What you now have is your AVR's 630 watts driving just 5 speakers or roughly 126 watts per channel. Plus you have an additional 200 watts driving just the front speakers. The front speakers generally have the max load, and this way you have dedicated amp for them. Marantz two channels amps are good and will match with the AVR.

You can also use the two channel amp for stereo music separately by connecting to a good CD Player.

If you are in touch with a good dealer, you can get a demo amp from him and try this out on your system before throwing your AVR away.

Best wishes.
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Well Dinyaar thats why I also suggested him not to go for that option !! thats also the reason for me to say the point 2 in my original post ! As we all know most of the entry-level and little above it will not have any great power ! so having that as power is waste ! not to mention the cost of suitable pre or in this case a processor ! even an entry level processor will cost almost twice as the original receiver that is intended to be used as power amp !! so with all these constrains,drawbacks,negatives it simply does not make sense to use a AVR as power !!

Now coming to RB9's comment !

by using the pre out u can use another power amp but doing that you are converting your multi channel system into two channels !!!!!

With all due respect to you :)!! where on earth did you that idea or impression from ???:confused:, you are absolutely wrong and there's no truth in that statement !!

Regards.
 

awedeophile

Active Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
297
Points
28
Location
India
Soundgreat,

You started your sentence by saying "Am very sorry to say,but that will not make sense nor is it practical to do it" but then suggested to him to do it. Hence the confusion.
Clarified now. Thanks.
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Sir I still say same it does not make sense and nor is it practical to use his AVR as power amp !! and I never suggested him use his AVR as Poweramp !!

Anyway Am glad that I was able clear it !! all's cool then;) !

Sumit I've already answered to the second point in your post ! please read !

As with the suggestion,I'd still say that its much better for you to buy a power amp then a new AVR !! I mean think about it ! in the new AVR whats that you are looking that not there in your existing one ?? the power right rest of it are already there and you are happy !! then why bother ? since your are lucky that your receiver has the capabality of playing the role of a Pre I'd say instead of selling it and losing the money spent on it ! Buy a multichannel power block ! for one it'll beat any given AVR to dust with the performance !! two it'll have more driver capability with high current (most of the power amps are of high currrent variety !) so it'll very very easliy drive the most demanding speaker with ease !!

So call off that ad of yours and hang on to the AVR :p ! Buy a power block, thats the bottom line don't get confused with some....

One easy way to alleviate this problem is to buy a two channel power amp or even an integrated amp that has say 100 watts per channel. Use the per out capabilities of the AVR to drive this amp to just the front right and left speakers. In your AVR set the front left and right speaker as 'not present'.

What you now have is your AVR's 630 watts driving just 5 speakers or roughly 126 watts per channel. Plus you have an additional 200 watts driving just the front speakers. The front speakers generally have the max load, and this way you have dedicated amp for them. Marantz two channels amps are good and will match with the AVR.

Buddy venkat,please please check the facts before you advice !!

In any and every AVR the only option to choose between is small or large for the fronts !! there is no none for the fronts !! it's only available for center,sub and rear !! Second even if it does have that option by selecting it you will not able to pass the power to the other channels !! I mean common this one is the basic most fact :p!! how can you pass a power of the front to the rear or center and that too as you say the partial amount of it :eek: ??

Its does not make a single ounce of sense !! So I'd say Sumit please discount the said statements !!

Regards.
 
Last edited:

Sumit

Active Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
435
Points
28
Location
UP/India
Soundsgreat...I understand and agree with your thoughts. Now, here is what I am going to do:
A) I am going to look for a power amp. I request you to please suggest me a power amp (7 channel) to match with my marantz. OR
B) If I get a good price then I shall sell off my 5001 and buy new AVR.
Please suggest me an AVR keeping in view the Quote below:
I think I will go for a new AVR. I am not going for a budget AVR. I already have a budget AVR, Marantz SR5001 90W/ch which is practically new. I want a powerful AVR which is gr8 for movies.

I am now looking at Marantz SR7002, Denon 2808, NAD T765 and Onkyo 805.
I don't think onkyo 875 is worth for me as it has gr8 video upscaler (Reon) which I don't need. So for 10W/ch more, i don't think it makes sense for added cost.
Please let me know your suggestions. If there is any other make or model please mention the same.

Please suggest me an AVR with following criteria in mind:

I watch 80% movies and rest music. Shd be powerful.
I have specific needs
I Need a HDMI1.3a.
I Don't need video upscaler. I just need a HDMI switch which can pass 1080p.
Shd have depth for movies.
Shd have OSD through HDMI.

My Gear:
Marantz DVD Player upscaler to 720p DV4001
Marantz AVR Sr5001
PSB Image T55
PSB C60 Center
Mordaunt Short Bipolars
Crystal Audio THX selct Active sub with 12" driver
Mitsubishi HC1500 720p projector.

Thanks.

Thanks
 

suniil

New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
280
Points
0
Location
London
Sumit, you can add denon 3808 also into your shortlist. You can weigh between 3808 & onkyo 805, I guess it's easy to make a choice as you shortlisted the perfect ones that makes decision simple ;)

I am now looking at Marantz SR7002 and Onkyo 805.


both the above tick all boxes, including the most important factor - Depth & dynamics

Please suggest me an AVR with following criteria in mind:

I watch 80% movies and rest music. Shd be powerful.
I have specific needs
I Need a HDMI1.3a.
I Don't need video upscaler. I just need a HDMI switch which can pass 1080p.
Shd have depth for movies.
Shd have OSD through HDMI.
 

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,167
Points
113
Location
Chennai
SoundsGreat, I stand corrected in terms of setting the Front Speakers to 'not present'. At the same time the 5001 does have pre outs and you can connect a two channel amp for the front speakers. There is no denying the fact that most of the sound load is on the front left, right, and center channels.

I have seen umpteen instances where people have connected a separate two channel amp for the front left and right channels.

You do get better quality sound particularly if you are driving difficult speakers.
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Sumit considering all your points and doing some research Here's conclusion !!

First off its better that you retain the AVR as pre and buy an Power Amp !! For the simple reason already said reasons !

The choices are below and all are within 2000$ (keeping the same price range as the AVR's that you have in mind), the below list is on the price basis
(meaning the order in which they appear)

1.Emotiva Reference Theater Series IPS-1 (1200$)
2.Anthem PVA 7 (1500$)
3.Outlaw Audio The Model 7200 (1850$)
4.Sherbourn Technologies 7/1250A 7-channel Amplifier (2000$)
5.ATI AT1807 (2000$)

So these should give you enough choice to choose from with any parameter or anyway that you want to choose !!

Or If you are hellbent on selling the AVR I'd still say please give pre-power a serious thought then AVR's !! but if you must (for whatever reasons) here's the AVR's that I'd suggest !


1.Yamaha 1800,3800
2.Denon 3808,4308
3.Sony STR-DA5300ES
4.Onkyo 805/875
5.B&K Components AVR507 S2

The above AVR's are suggested only on the basis of power and the drive that they have (or the Juice) so it has to be taken in only that way !!

The reason for me not to include the marantz is, I've said it in the past and will say it again !

The Marantz is more suited for music and casual movie watching !! The Marantz lacks the drive and muscle power required to give a true HT performance ! you have already experienced that yourself so nothing much I can say for that ! The almost entire Marantz series barring their flagship 9000 is plagued by the same problem !!

So I think this is enough for you to make a solid mind as to what type of electronics you want to buy !!


Regards.
 

suniil

New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
280
Points
0
Location
London
I guess that's the way to go! Sorry sreekanth, I removed sony from your list only because I personally don't like it. I had it for home trial just before upgrading to Onkyo (got onkyo 805 & 5300ES, i preferred the dynamics of Onkyo over Sony).

1.Yamaha 1800,3800
2.Denon 3808,4308
4.Onkyo 805/875

Or if you are a marantz fan ;) 8003 series looks very impressive

20080704123208.jpg
 

soundsgreat

New Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,103
Points
0
Location
Bengaluru
Hi,

Sunil not fair :p!!

Also double not fair ;) !!

I have never said no to the pre-power from marantz ! I only said it on the average AVR's from their stable !

Now you are not playing fair here by introducing the Pre-Power ! thats Cheating :p!!

Regards.
 

Sumit

Active Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
435
Points
28
Location
UP/India
Thanks a lot guys for your time.
Soundsgr8, I looked at the power amps you'd mentioned. Can you tell where in India I can get one of these? Because, it is going to be a pain getting these heavy wt dumbells from abroad. I can only consider these if they are available in India otherwise I will have to go for a New AVR.

Also, venkat mentioned that I may be able to use a two channel poweramp. But, wouldn't there be a delay in sound via the poweramp then?? Could there be a lip sync prob?

Please let me know your thoughts.

And, thanks again soundsgr8 for taking time out for checking out poweramps for me.

Sumit
 
Top