Protection device and wiring for music room

[Vivek Batra]

Hi FMs

I am building a new stereo room in my new house. Current stage is wiring which is almost done. My house has 3 phase supply and the room is in the basement. So far I have decided to keep my music room on a separate phase isolated from rest of the basement. I have marked/labelled the wiring for the stereo room.

I have not installed any MCBs for the stereo room yet but for everything else its done. My queries are as follows

1. Is there any kind of product that replace normal MCBs and could do some kind of surge protection or voltage regulation
2. Or , in case I install a stabilizer near the mains just for the setero room,how can I run the room supply via stabilizer?
3. Any other suggestions?


Thanks
Vivek

 

[mbhangui]

Hi FMs

I am building a new stereo room in my new house. Current stage is wiring which is almost done. My house has 3 phase supply and the room is in the basement. So far I have decided to keep my music room on a separate phase isolated from rest of the basement. I have marked/labelled the wiring for the stereo room.

I have not installed any MCBs for the stereo room yet but for everything else its done. My queries are as follows

1. Is there any kind of product that replace normal MCBs and could do some kind of surge protection or voltage regulation

Yes there are products that replace normal MCB and provide surge protection, over voltage protection. But you don't get voltage regulation in such small devices. You also get good products that display the voltage and power being consumed. Most of these devices are from Taiwan. Don't buy the cheap made in China stuff.

See this amazon.in search. You can buy the Eurocontrol or Amic make in the listing below

Amazon.in : high low voltage cut off device

You also get (Made in India) what is known as 'home protector' in the local electrical market. Usually the supplier will send a person to do the fitting. You can use the home protector for your entire house. This will cut off the supply in case of over/under voltage and the cutoff is adjustable.

This doubles as surge protector also

https://www.amazon.in/amiciSmart-Circuit-Breaker-Lightning-Protection/dp/B09F39K2QN/ref=d_pb_allspark_dp_sims_pao_desktop_session_based_sccl_3_3/262-0262428-0249839?pd_rd_w=Thl50&content-id=amzn1.sym.f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_p=f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_r=ZYHVVANEVFAMDEEAY3KX&pd_rd_wg=lwAvN&pd_rd_r=57764175-8b83-4491-8ca2-91c9762ea3f3&pd_rd_i=B09F39K2QN&th=1

2. Or , in case I install a stabilizer near the mains just for the setero room,how can I run the room supply via stabilizer?

You can buy either servo stabilizer or static voltage stablizer. Static voltage stabilizer are very fast and do voltage regulation in few milliseconds. Servo stabilizer are electro-mechanical devices and takes many milliseconds to regulate because the arm has to move over a torroidal transformer. You will have to ask an electrician to take the output of the stabilizer and feed it to your music room. Have the AC wired separately, else VA rating of the stabilzer will become high and you will have to spend unecessarily higher for a higher VA rated stabilizer. Also the size of the stabilizer will increase for higher VA rating.

If you don't have an electrician to do the wiring, then you can connect the stabilizer to the mains and take power from the stablizer output using a good power strip/distribution outlet and connect your TV, AVR, amp and other devices. Some folks use a pure sine wave inverter/UPS. But there is no such thing as an absolute pure sine wave. Purists will avoid such devices as they do add noise. I myself use UPS only for my HTPC and lights in the music room and keep the UPS outside the music room.

3. Any other suggestions?

 

[Vivek Batra]

Yes there are products that replace normal MCB and provide surge protection, over voltage protection. But you don't get voltage regulation in such small devices. You also get good products that display the voltage and power being consumed. Most of these devices are from Taiwan. Don't buy the cheap made in China stuff.

See this amazon.in search. You can buy the Eurocontrol or Amic make in the listing below

Amazon.in : high low voltage cut off device

You also get (Made in India) what is known as 'home protector' in the local electrical market. Usually the supplier will send a person to do the fitting. You can use the home protector for your entire house. This will cut off the supply in case of over/under voltage and the cutoff is adjustable.

This doubles as surge protector also

https://www.amazon.in/amiciSmart-Circuit-Breaker-Lightning-Protection/dp/B09F39K2QN/ref=d_pb_allspark_dp_sims_pao_desktop_session_based_sccl_3_3/262-0262428-0249839?pd_rd_w=Thl50&content-id=amzn1.sym.f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_p=f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_r=ZYHVVANEVFAMDEEAY3KX&pd_rd_wg=lwAvN&pd_rd_r=57764175-8b83-4491-8ca2-91c9762ea3f3&pd_rd_i=B09F39K2QN&th=1

You can buy either servo stabilizer or static voltage stablizer. Static voltage stabilizer are very fast and do voltage regulation in few milliseconds. Servo stabilizer are electro-mechanical devices and takes many milliseconds to regulate because the arm has to move over a torroidal transformer. You will have to ask an electrician to take the output of the stabilizer and feed it to your music room. Have the AC wired separately, else VA rating of the stabilzer will become high and you will have to spend unecessarily higher for a higher VA rated stabilizer. Also the size of the stabilizer will increase for higher VA rating.

If you don't have an electrician to do the wiring, then you can connect the stabilizer to the mains and take power from the stablizer output using a good power strip/distribution outlet and connect your TV, AVR, amp and other devices. Some folks use a pure sine wave inverter/UPS. But there is no such thing as an absolute pure sine wave. Purists will avoid such devices as they do add noise. I myself use UPS only for my HTPC and lights in the music room and keep the UPS outside the music room.

Thanks, these are really good suggestions. I will go through the products you mentioned. The AC is outside the room (ducted) so thats already separate from the room. But good point.

 

[coaltrain]

@Vivek Batra

Here in B’lore, power cuts are pretty frequent and totally unpredictable. Which is why I installed an online ups for the hifi system and the home theatre rig. It’s provided real peace of mind and kept the equipment (and my mental health) intact. The ups is pretty loud though, so I keep it on another floor.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Yes there are products that replace normal MCB and provide surge protection, over voltage protection. But you don't get voltage regulation in such small devices. You also get good products that display the voltage and power being consumed. Most of these devices are from Taiwan. Don't buy the cheap made in China stuff.

See this amazon.in search. You can buy the Eurocontrol or Amic make in the listing below

Amazon.in : high low voltage cut off device

You also get (Made in India) what is known as 'home protector' in the local electrical market. Usually the supplier will send a person to do the fitting. You can use the home protector for your entire house. This will cut off the supply in case of over/under voltage and the cutoff is adjustable.

This doubles as surge protector also

https://www.amazon.in/amiciSmart-Circuit-Breaker-Lightning-Protection/dp/B09F39K2QN/ref=d_pb_allspark_dp_sims_pao_desktop_session_based_sccl_3_3/262-0262428-0249839?pd_rd_w=Thl50&content-id=amzn1.sym.f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_p=f9221308-d9c7-4a5c-ac35-a081ae29b064&pf_rd_r=ZYHVVANEVFAMDEEAY3KX&pd_rd_wg=lwAvN&pd_rd_r=57764175-8b83-4491-8ca2-91c9762ea3f3&pd_rd_i=B09F39K2QN&th=1

You can buy either servo stabilizer or static voltage stablizer. Static voltage stabilizer are very fast and do voltage regulation in few milliseconds. Servo stabilizer are electro-mechanical devices and takes many milliseconds to regulate because the arm has to move over a torroidal transformer. You will have to ask an electrician to take the output of the stabilizer and feed it to your music room. Have the AC wired separately, else VA rating of the stabilzer will become high and you will have to spend unecessarily higher for a higher VA rated stabilizer. Also the size of the stabilizer will increase for higher VA rating.

If you don't have an electrician to do the wiring, then you can connect the stabilizer to the mains and take power from the stablizer output using a good power strip/distribution outlet and connect your TV, AVR, amp and other devices. Some folks use a pure sine wave inverter/UPS. But there is no such thing as an absolute pure sine wave. Purists will avoid such devices as they do add noise. I myself use UPS only for my HTPC and lights in the music room and keep the UPS outside the music room.

+1 to that . Great advice from @mbhangui as always ..

I will just add my extra 2 cents .

. 1. Have a dedicated 20 amp line for the audio gear and a separate (atleast 13 amp) line for the lighting etc. Both coming off separate breakers at the mains. Any SMPS that you use, will have to come off the 13amp line and not the main audio line.
2. Install a CVT ( not a servo stabiliser) to feed an isolation transformer. Take the output from the isolation transformer and feed it to the dedicated 20 amp breaker feeding the dedicated audio power line.
3. When I had a CVT + isolation transformer many years ago, the CVT used to hum like a bee. Probably because of the pathetic power supply at my place. So ideally place this combo outside the house and connect it to the dedicated audio line at the mains. You might have to build a small shed like structure to house this combo from the weather.
4. Please pay a lot of attention to proper grounding. A lot of folks build a grounding pit with copper bar buried deep in the ground. And the grounding pit will need some attention from time to time. My knowledge is very very limited in this matter. Iam sure @mbhangui or @Subbu68 can contribute better to this subject.

P. S : we also have access to balanced power transformers these days. A 5Kva unit is small enough and will do what a CVT + isolation transformer will do. But they are way more expensive than the CVT + isolation transformer combo.

 

[Vivek Batra]

+1 to that . Great advice from @mbhangui as always ..

I will just add my extra 2 cents .

. 1. Have a dedicated 20 amp line for the audio gear and a separate (atleast 13 amp) line for the lighting etc. Both coming off separate breakers at the mains. Any SMPS that you use, will have to come off the 13amp line and not the main audio line.
2. Install a CVT ( not a servo stabiliser) to feed an isolation transformer. Take the output from the isolation transformer and feed it to the dedicated 20 amp breaker feeding the dedicated audio power line.
3. When I had a CVT + isolation transformer many years ago, the CVT used to hum like a bee. Probably because of the pathetic power supply at my place. So ideally place this combo outside the house and connect it to the dedicated audio line at the mains. You might have to build a small shed like structure to house this combo from the weather.
4. Please pay a lot of attention to proper grounding. A lot of folks build a grounding pit with copper bar buried deep in the ground. And the grounding pit will need some attention from time to time. My knowledge is very very limited in this matter. Iam sure @mbhangui or @Subbu68 can contribute better to this subject.

P. S : we also have access to balanced power transformers these days. A 5Kva unit is small enough and will do what a CVT + isolation transformer will do. But they are way more expensive than the CVT + isolation transformer combo.

Thanks Manohar for your inputs (the way you would like to be addressed)

Have a dedicated 20 amp line for the audio gear and a separate (atleast 13 amp) line for the lighting etc. Both coming off separate breakers at the mains. Any SMPS that you use, will have to come off the 13amp line and not the main audio line.

Already in place.

Install a CVT ( not a servo stabiliser) to feed an isolation transformer. Take the output from the isolation transformer and feed it to the dedicated 20 amp breaker feeding the dedicated audio power line.

Need to check about this.No prior experience with any kinds vilatag regulators. Since the power supply in Chandigarh is quite good, so hardly any one uses anytthing like that.

So ideally place this combo outside the house and connect it to the dedicated audio line at the mains.

My basement has a separate mains box which is outside my music room (just the back wall) so keeping it outside of the room is easier for me.

Please pay a lot of attention to proper grounding. A lot of folks build a grounding pit with copper bar buried deep in the ground. And the grounding pit will need some attention from time to time.

I have total 5 earth pits in my home. Some one very knowledgable on these matter asked me to connect all the grounding rods with a single wire of 4mm. This would take care of ground loops. Will do that. There will be hard flooring where all the pits are, so will try to mark them in case I need to do any kinda intervention later on.

 

[Subbu68]

Thanks Manohar for your inputs (the way you would like to be addressed)

Already in place.


Need to check about this.No prior experience with any kinds vilatag regulators. Since the power supply in Chandigarh is quite good, so hardly any one uses anytthing like that.


My basement has a separate mains box which is outside my music room (just the back wall) so keeping it outside of the room is easier for me.


I have total 5 earth pits in my home. Some one very knowledgable on these matter asked me to connect all the grounding rods with a single wire of 4mm. This would take care of ground loops. Will do that. There will be hard flooring where all the pits are, so will try to mark them in case I need to do any kinda intervention later on.

The earth pits need to have covers so that you can open and irrigate them in summer if it dries out. It is the resistance between the rod and the soil that matters not the resistance of the rod or the material itself makes no difference. If the interface at the soil dries out you will have high resistance grounding and safety issue.

Connecting the grounding rods should be done in a loop and is done to;
1) reduce the overall grounding resistance and
2) provide alternate grounding path if one earth pit fails.

Connecting them together won't reduce the chance of ground loops. You will have ground loops if the group of equipment are connected to different points on the grounding system. Hence, all A/V equipment grounds need to be at one point (say the power strip) and a single wire running to the overall grounding of the house. With most modern A/V gear having double insulation and two wire power supply, this issue may not arise. Earthing looks simple to the common man but is an abstract science and with many variables that affect the performance.

5 earth pits in a house is an overkill. Even for distribution substations there are only 4 to 8 pits depending on soil condition. One good earth pit should do for a house unless you have a separate HV/LV transformer for yourself.

 

[Vivek Batra]

The earth pits need to have covers so that you can open and irrigate them in summer if it dries out. It is the resistance between the rod and the soil that matters not the resistance of the rod r the material itself. If the interface dries out you will have high resistance grounding and safety issue.

Connecting the grounding rods should be done in a loop and is done to;
1) reduce the overall grounding resistance and
2) provide alternate grounding path if one earth pit fails.

Connecting them together won't reduce the chance of ground loops. You will have ground loops if the group of equipment are connected to different points on the grounding system. Hence, all A/V equipment grounds need to be at one point (say the power strip) and a single wire running to the overall grounding of the house. With most modern A/V gear having double insulation and two wire power supply, this issue may not arise. Earthing looks simple to the common man but is an abstract science and with many variables that affect the performance.

5 earth pits in a house is an overkill. Even for distribution substations there are only 4 to 8 pits depending on soil condition. One good earth pit should do for a house unless you have a separate HV/LV transformer for yourself.

Hi @Subbu68

Thanks for sharing the info. I didn't get the grounding part. Could you please explain for a layman how all the earthing rods should be connected?

I have 5 earth pits for the following
1. Three pits are for Solar plant
2. One pit are for elevator
3. One pit is for the rest of the house.

Connecting the grounding rods should be done in a loop and is done to;

Please explain this in more details, how all the rods should be connected.

 

[Subbu68]

Hi @Subbu68

Thanks for sharing the info. I didn't get the grounding part. Could you please explain for a layman how all the earthing rods should be connected?

I have 5 earth pits for the following
1. Two pits are for Solar plant
2. Two pits are for elevator
3. One pit is for the rest of the house.


Please explain this in more details, how all the rods should be connected.

Could you post a sketch how these are located on the plan?

Are the earth pits of solar plant connected to only the structure carrying the PV panels for safety grounding?

I believe the elevator earth pits are solely for the safety grounding.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Are the earth pits of solar plant connected to only the structure carrying the PV panels for safety grounding?

Yes
The plan is as below

I believe the elevator earth pits are solely for the safety grounding.

Could be similar to Solar grounding, this one is pending so not sure how and where it will be connected inside the elevator shaft.

 

[Subbu68]

Yes

The plan is as below
View attachment 76789

I would not connect them together. Since the Solar earth pit is used for lightning protection, connecting them to other earths can cause surges into the house directly from the lightning arrestor.

It is fine to connect the elevator earth to the home earth pit. You can run two cables from one to the other for redundancy like a ring.

Could be similar to Solar grounding, this one is pending so not sure how and where it will be connected inside the elevator shaft.

Again if it ends up on a lightning arrestor on the top, avoid connecting it to house earth. If for electrical safety it is fine.

 

[Vivek Batra]

I would not connect them together. Since the Solar earth pit is used for lightning protection, connecting them to other earths can cause surges into the house directly from the lightning arrestor.

It is fine to connect the elevator earth to the home earth pit. You can run two cables from one to the other for redundancy like a ring.

If you don't mind, why 2 cables to connect both the earths?

 

[Subbu68]

If you don't mind, why 2 cables to connect both the earths?

just for redundancy. in case one connection snaps or corrodes the other will still connect the two.

Two earth pits in parallel is theoretically half the resistance of one. There are interactions between them through the soil etc. so not really R/2. (that's why I wrote it is an abstract science). Still better than one. Try to keep minimum 2 times the length of the individual rod between the earth pits.

 

[Vivek Batra]

just for redundancy. in case one connection snaps or corrodes the other will still connect the two.

Two earth pits in parallel is theoretically half the resistance of one. There are interactions between them through the soil etc. so not really R/2. (that's why I wrote it is an abstract science). Still better than one. Try to keep minimum 2 times the length of the individual rod between the earth pits.

Thanks a lot. My head is clear now. Well I don't have the space two keep that much distance in front of my house, sadly.

 

[Subbu68]

Thanks a lot. My head is clear now. Well I don't have the space two keep that much distance in front of my house, sadly.

Still it will be okay. Try to keep them as far as possible. Maybe even one towards front and if you have space on the side , install the second there.

 

[Vivek Batra]

Still it will be okay. Try to keep them as far as possible. Maybe even one towards front and if you have space on the side , install the second there.

I think they are around 4 feet apart

 

[coaltrain]

This conversation abruptly escalated into something that’s waaay above my pay grade!
I‘m just a simpleton in an apartment complex, guys. Is there anything else, besides the 3kva online ups, I can do to protect my gear?

@Vivek Batra
Apologies if I’m intruding on your thread, but all the electric gurus seem to be here

 

[Vivek Batra]

This conversation abruptly escalated into something that’s waaay above my pay grade!
I‘m just a simpleton in an apartment complex, guys. Is there anything else, besides the 3kva online ups, I can do to protect my gear?

@Vivek Batra
Apologies if I’m intruding on your thread, but all the electric gurus seem to be here

No worries, @coaltrain , any knowledge is worthy. So go ahead.

 

[mbhangui]

This conversation abruptly escalated into something that’s waaay above my pay grade!
I‘m just a simpleton in an apartment complex, guys. Is there anything else, besides the 3kva online ups, I can do to protect my gear?

Just a high voltage cut out before the online ups. You can replace an existing MCB with the cut out. They come with various form factor. Get one of the same size as the existing mcb. When there is high voltage it will trip protecting your online UPS. Get a voltmeter with the glowing 7 segment led display and have it connected somewhere where you can always see the voltage.

I have this in all my rooms https://www.amazon.in/Selec-MV305-D...d=1682962288&sprefix=selec+vol,aps,310&sr=8-3

 

[coaltrain]

Very helpful advice!
Thanks @mbhangui