Puerile questions on CDP quality

[krishpiscean]

Whole life i have been a major movie/gaming junkie but not much into music and accordingly i never dealt with music gear. Though I have ipod etc i have them just for the heck of it but never bothered abt quality.

Lately, i'm slowly getting into music by playing in on my sony BDP connected to denon 1911 and energy take classic speakers. So i have a very few basic questions and request fellow members to answer them in layman's terms

1. Is there a considerable difference to have a dedicated CDP and an amp for music instead of using some DVD/BDP with AVR ?

2. Is it like if i get good quality only from Cds in CDP and not so good if i use a USB stick with MP3s or FLAC ?

3. Will a CDP/amp set up work well with energy take classic spkrs or a better dedicated stereo speakers are required.

4. If a new set up is required, pls suggest a decent start up gear. I have access to US/UK/SG and planning to get from these markets.


TIA

 

[Bluu]

1. Is there a considerable difference to have a dedicated CDP and an amp for music instead of using some DVD/BDP with AVR ?

2. Is it like if i get good quality only from Cds in CDP and not so good if i use a USB stick with MP3s or FLAC ?

3. Will a CDP/amp set up work well with energy take classic spkrs or a better dedicated stereo speakers are required.

4. If a new set up is required, pls suggest a decent start up gear. I have access to US/UK/SG and planning to get from these markets.

Agree with musicmaya, please browse further.

1. No AVR can match a dedicated stereo amp of reasonable quality.

2. FLAC yes, MP3 no. You can choose to have a CDP or an audio PC playing lossless.

3. Sorry, I don't know about these speakers. Best to keep the stereo rig separate.

4. Please look through other threads and also mention budget. Try to get auditions of speakers falling in your budget before proceeding. Many brands in India are very well priced.

 

[gobble]

when I started my audiophool journey I could not figure why a CDP could cost 20K or more when a DVDP was available for 5K. It was the biggest leap of faith I took and I am today completely satisfied with the VFM of a CDP like CD6002 for example.

HTH
--G0bble

 

[sachin_k5]

if the music will be playing in the background with you not allocating time to listen to it dedicatedly, a DVD/BDP + AVR will do just fine.

 

[Bluu]

if the music will be playing in the background with you not allocating time to listen to it dedicatedly, a DVD/BDP + AVR will do just fine.

Actually, this is a very valid point. No use spending on a separate stereo rig unless you plan to dedicate time to it. Why not visit some Hyd members' homes for auditions before deciding whether you truly want to walk down this path?

I recently was bitten by the stereo bug. Sold my HT off and am completely dedicated to stereo now. hyeah:

 

[sonosphere]

why don't you do a home work before posting

Guys,
Pls allow me to go a little offtrack...
I don't see much harm* in helping someone directly with query-answers, nor with anyone asking queries without doing "homework". If I can't help someone, I can always choose to be silent.
*repeat queries cluttering this forum?... won't get into that discussion on this thread

Let's give benefit of doubt to a member that he wouldn't even know how to do the "homework"... where to begin? I believe polite guidance is better for "emotional environment" of this forum than a curt reply.

@musicmaya... obviously not singling out your comment on purpose... I have seen such response from others, earlier too, and also posted similar comments... hope you don't mind

Regds,

 

[krishpiscean]

Guys,
Pls allow me to go a little offtrack...
I don't see much harm* in helping someone directly with query-answers, nor with anyone asking queries without doing "homework". If I can't help someone, I can always choose to be silent.
*repeat queries cluttering this forum?... won't get into that discussion on this thread

Let's give benefit of doubt to a member that he wouldn't even know how to do the "homework"... where to begin? I believe polite guidance is better for "emotional environment" of this forum than a curt reply.

@musicmaya... obviously not singling out your comment on purpose... I have seen such response from others, earlier too, and also posted similar comments... hope you don't mind

Regds,

Everyone has an opinion based on their experiences and upbringing and there is no right or wrong. What is right for you is wrong for others and vice versa.:indifferent14:

Few put their opinions on my laziness or whatever and few decided to put the same energy in helping me out. At the end of day everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions, so it is up to one either to ignore or not. You can't carve every stone on ur way.

 

[thatguy]

Guys,
Pls allow me to go a little offtrack...
I don't see much harm* in helping someone directly with query-answers, nor with anyone asking queries without doing "homework". If I can't help someone, I can always choose to be silent.
*repeat queries cluttering this forum?... won't get into that discussion on this thread

Let's give benefit of doubt to a member that he wouldn't even know how to do the "homework"... where to begin? I believe polite guidance is better for "emotional environment" of this forum than a curt reply.

Amen to that.

I feel bad when people are rude to new comers asking basic questions. The world of hi-fi audio can be intimidating and a helping hand in the beginning goes a long way in easing the anxieties.

All the answers are their on Google; still we need real teachers who can do some hand holding. We all need it once in a while

Edit: Answers to Krish's questions"

1. Is there a considerable difference to have a dedicated CDP and an amp for music instead of using some DVD/BDP with AVR ?

Yes. I have been on the path and actually bought a 3k LG DVD player (I don't watch TV) to use as a CD player before buying a real CD player. Let's just say the LG player was horrible.

However, I have now retired the CD player and moved to PC -> DAC. To my ears, I have lost nothing in sound quality.

2. Is it like if i get good quality only from Cds in CDP and not so good if i use a USB stick with MP3s or FLAC ?

The sound quality depends on the DAC. Cheap CD players will have low end DAC. USB or CD will not matter.

mp3, which is lossy, is another story.

4. If a new set up is required, pls suggest a decent start up gear. I have access to US/UK/SG and planning to get from these markets.

If I were you, I would buy my first equipment used. Once you get an idea of what specialized stuff sounds like, you will be able to make your own choices by auditions/reading.

The important thing is to get started. Don't postpone your first purchase. Look into the classifieds on this forum.

 

[iaudio]

Krish, +1 to what bluu and thatguy have said.
My 2 rupees : if you are more of a background listener.i.e you do other stuff while the music is playing in the background and are not too bothered about the nitty gritty of music, what you could do is just upgrade your speakers. Go for a pair of budget bookshelv look for a good deal on pre owned stuff) and see if it does the job. If your dil maange more,.get a stereo amp and a cdp/dac(if you want play music off your pc).
Imho, the biggest improvement is with a pair of good speakers!

 

[jls001]

The search function on our forum is over-rated! (as is Google's capabilities). Not all knowledge, and less so wisdom, has been enshrined on the net. Also, when one has specific questions, as does the OP, it is no fun to read through pages and pages of posts, most of which are not even relevant, and at the end of it what one gathers is just a small part of what one needs to know to form an informed opinion.

So specific questions can be answered to the best of one's knowledge, even if they have been asked before by others on the forum.

@krishpiscean: a dedicated CDP has better circuitry to perform only one function which is to play CDs. DVDp or BRp are do-it-all devices and playing CDp is not their primary design goal, unless one goes for something specifically modded for audio like a BDP 95.

And do listen to to audio sitting comfortably in the sweet spot (create one if you don't already have it - best investment you'll ever make), and not as a passive, background activity.

 

[gobble]

Few put their opinions on my laziness or whatever and few decided to put the same energy in helping me out. At the end of day everyone has an opinion based on their perceptions, so it is up to one either to ignore or not. You can't carve every stone on ur way.

Agreed! You can't carve every stone on the way... but you can surely Gobble every joke along the way hyeah:hyeah:hyeah:

--G0bble

 

[krishpiscean]

Thanks a lot bluu, thatguy, sonosphere, sachin_k5, iaudio, jls001, gobble for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Based on your valid suggestions, I have decided to audition the gear first and hyd hifi meet on 11th is the perfect place for me to start it.

But the more i learn from our forum, i feel the more ignorant i'm

I'm going to Singapore in the last week and the prices are far more competitive there and thinking to buy an integrated amp at medium budget and pair it with my macbookpro (2011) or ac ryan playon. Later slowly add CD player and speakers.

Based on my re-search on the forum, i found marantz PM5004 & 6003 are good for starters. In case I decide on one of them, how to select a pairing CD player and speakers ? Or is it better to buy a CD player first ?


Both CD6003 & PM6003 are similarily priced around 350 SGD.

 

[Bluu]

Based on my re-search on the forum, i found marantz PM5004 & 6003 are good for starters. In case I decide on one of them, how to select a pairing CD player and speakers ? Or is it better to buy a CD player first ?


Both CD6003 & PM6003 are similarily priced around 350 SGD.

Automatic choice, in my opinion, will the Marantz CD players. The CD6003 is especially loved by everyone and it should pair very well with the PM6003. However, I haven't heard any of these products. In any case, you should buy only after an audition.

 

[milestoneseeker]

Krish,

Apologies for barging into your thread but I was about to post pretty much an exact query so thought of pooling in with you.

Folks,

From what I read in Krish's original post, he is playing the Sony BDP through 1911. Now, I am making an assumption (Krish, correct me if I am wrong) that he is connecting it via HDMI. If that is the case, does it not imply that the DAC of Sony BDP never comes into play and it essentially ends up working only as a transport? It is the 1911 DAC which does the whole of conversion?

Having said that, my query was more around (and this might be relevant for Krish too) is that which CDP onwards does the CDP DAC become better than the 1911 DAC? I have an exactly similar set-up as Krish except that I will be playing through Paradigm Monitor 9 (series 7) 2.0 set up as against Krish's Take5 speakers.

I have read multitude of threads on this aspect and my question is more around ... from which range/brand/series does the CDP DAC a step above 1911 DAC?

Cheers
MSS

 

[vraned]

+1 to the pool. Thanks MSS.

I have a Sony BDP connected via HDMI to an Onkyo 609 (with KEF Q300 speakers), and I spend considerable amount of time listening to music (CDs) through this setup. The music doesn't sound bad at all.

Would having a dedicated CDP like the Marantz 5004 (connected via coaxial/optical) make a considerable difference to the current setup, or would I be spending too much for a marginal difference (if you can make that out).

Thanks
Vishnu

 

[jaudere]

I am of the opinion that music using a good avr(den1911,onk609 are good avrs and not entry level) and a DVDP using HDMI Connection should sound quite good.
I personally use marantz pm6002 and 8 year old sony dvd player and homemade speakers. However i have heard a simple dvdp connected to denon avr using Hdmi at my friend's place and the sound was very involving. If i had that set up i would not have separately invested in stereo set up(electronics part).
If I had denon 1911 , I would spent all my budget on a good pair of speakers. If I had nothing to start with, then i would have thought of dedicated CDP And stereo amp.

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Interesting thread!

My 2 rupees: Finally, at the end of the day it is based on what you are looking for?
People look for several things, based on my observations:
"soundstage"
"imaging"
"tonality"
"lows"
"mid-range";
"highs"
Some even look for
"punch"hyeah:
"chill-chill"hyeah:

so, why this kolaveri?

jokes apart, have seen people listening to particular songs for years and years just for the subtle nuances!

In my experience, a dedicated CDP combined with stereo amp will outperform the DVD/AVR combo. Analog always wins!

Cheers!

 

[vraned]

Venkatesh,

I've heard and read a lot about the "analog better than digital" theory. How exactly will it outperform? Is the improvement in the quality of sound so obvious that its a no-brainer?

Thanks
Vishnu

In my experience, a dedicated CDP combined with stereo amp will outperform the DVD/AVR combo. Analog always wins!

Cheers!

 

[jaudere]

this may be applicable for music recorded analogue way(LP). However even a dedicated CDP Is a digital media player.
So the argument of analogue vs digital simply does not apply to the discussion here.


Be it a dedicated cdp-amp or dvdp-avr. Some gadget has to do duty of digita to analogue conversion. The sound depends on which gadget does it better and which amplifies the converted sound better.

 

[venkatcr]

Since the question is puerile in nature, can I lecture like a school teacher?

Let me sum up the question in a single line - when does a CDP start making a difference in sound quality?

Let us look at the parts of a CD player as compared to other players and see how and what difference can be perceived. Mind you, I have said this before and I have had many people cursing me. But I will say it again.

A CD that contains music stores some 700 MB of data. Compared to this, a DVD stores between 4 and 9 GB of data while a Blu-Ray stores upto 25 GB of data on a disc of the same size. The difference? Simply the density of data written.

Even keeping the rotational speed of the disc the same, which at 1x is between 200-500 PRM, DVD reading head has to move in much smaller steps to read all the data from a DVD. The head shines a laser beam at the disc, reads the reflected light and then decides whether it is a 0 or a 1.

When you use a CDROM in a DVD drive, it also works in the same manner. The difference is in the width of the laser bean that is much narrower than that of the CDP. When you are reading 1.23 mBits of data a second, there is bound to be errors, and this is taken care of by one; rereading the data, and two; by a process called the Reed-Solomon error correction; and three: by header information. Each sector in the CD has 2,352 bytes, and contains 2,048 of actual data. The 304 bytes is header and error-correcting codes that is used by the reader to verify the incoming data.

Audio CDs do not contain Reed-Solomon error correction, and the payer has to depend upon other ways of correcting read errors.

When you insert a audio CDs in a DVD drives, the read head has to move in smaller steps. Secondly a DVD drives is built to read data and separate video and sound. Compared to this, a CDP has lesser electronics. The DVDP also rotates at higher speeds, and consequently, the algorithm needed to check the validity of data is much more complex.

If the audio CD has a scratch, a CDP will interpolate and try to smoothen the resultant analogue curve. A DVDP will just ignore the error. You have to go a DVDP such those made by Oppo or others who have special circuits for error correction.

Secondly, a DVDP assumes that all the DAC will be done by external electronics. While there is no problem when you are watching a movie, having a DAC nearer to the source is better for two channel music. This is simply because, if the DAC is not able to create a smooth audio curve, it will just ask the drive to re-read the data again. An external DAC cannot do that.

If you are serious about music, a CDP is a far better investment than regular run of the mill DVDPs.

Cheers