Q Acoustics 3060s Subwoofer for stereo setup

[Venkyrenga]

I currently have Elac b6.2 driven by Marantz 7000N. I am very satisfied with the sound to say the least. The only think lacking is the bass impact. I do not have the space to accommodate a huge sub in my room, which is only 11*12 ft. So I am thinking of adding the QA 3060s to my current setup.

Can you guys shed some light on how well it fairs especially with music?

 

[DB1989]

I currently have Elac b6.2 driven by Marantz 7000N. I am very satisfied with the sound to say the least. The only think lacking is the bass impact. I do not have the space to accommodate a huge sub in my room, which is only 11*12 ft. So I am thinking of adding the QA 3060s to my current setup.

Can you guys shed some light on how well it fairs especially with music?

No bass impact from a sizeable enclosure with a 6.5 inch driver? That's surprising!

Before getting a sub, have you tried playing around with placement? I am driving a PSB Alpha P5 (5.25 inch driver in a tiny enclosure) with an SMSL DA9 (space saving budget amp) and it produces prodigious bass in a 12x20 space, enough to give people sat on the couch a good and righteous back massage.

My two cents - try and get the positioning right before investing in new gear. As they say, there's no replacement for placement (or was it displacement )

 

[Kannan]

I currently have Elac b6.2 driven by Marantz 7000N. I am very satisfied with the sound to say the least. The only think lacking is the bass impact. I do not have the space to accommodate a huge sub in my room, which is only 11*12 ft. So I am thinking of adding the QA 3060s to my current setup.

Can you guys shed some light on how well it fairs especially with music?

The Debut B6.2 is front ported which gives you advantage of placing it closer to the rear wall that will augment bass response or in the corner for even more boosted bass.
Assuming you are not using the source direct feature of your amp (that bypasses tone controls), did you try increasing the bass using the bass tone control knob?
My Debut B6 1st version) is powered by a Norge Concerto Gold amp, and I find the bass is more than sufficient.
Since version 1 is rear ported, I have placed it 2 feet from the rear wall.

 

[Venkyrenga]

The bass impact is good for a 6.5 incher. But I just want deeper and more impactful.

 

[Venkyrenga]

I received the 3060s yesterday. The bass is not tight like it was in the b6.2. It has a different character, it is a bit loose. Is it because it is not sealed and it is designed mainly for movies?

 

[Phew]

I received the 3060s yesterday. The bass is not tight like it was in the b6.2. It has a different character, it is a bit loose. Is it because it is not sealed and it is designed mainly for movies?

1. Give it some play time
2. Try different placement options if possible.
3. Hear if you have done the crossover and gain correct, many times people end up with a lower crossover point than needed and higher gain.
4. Check for phase if it has an option

For crossover try to start with gain at 11 o'clock and crossover at 100hz and start rolling back on the crossover to where you hear it merge well, if you find the bass boomy or a tad thick reduce the gain little by little

 

[Venkyrenga]

1. Give it some play time
2. Try different placement options if possible.
3. Hear if you have done the crossover and gain correct, many times people end up with a lower crossover point than needed and higher gain.
4. Check for phase if it has an option

For crossover try to start with gain at 11 o'clock and crossover at 100hz and start rolling back on the crossover to where you hear it merge well, if you find the bass boomy or a tad thick reduce the gain little by little

I have tried all except the phase option. It improved but still it is a bit boomy, not as tight as the speaker's.

The gain is set at 10 o'clock and the crossover at 80hz. The sub is placed in between the two speakers right next to the wall with the port facing me.

Does changing the phase from 0 to 180 control the bass? To my understanding it only causes a time delay. And doesn't setting a lower crossover make it less boomy as it directs the higher frequencies to the bookshelves?

 

[Phew]

I have tried all except the phase option. It improved but still it is a bit boomy, not as tight as the speaker's.

Bass from your subwoofer or any for that matter is filling the lower end of the frequency range and gently rolling down merging into the midbass of a speaker and not replacing it hence for it to sound as tight as the midbass is asking alot from it. As for the boomy bit you can reduce the gain a tad where the boom is reduced.
How low are your speakers playing that tight bass, what frequency range do you think? and what frequency do you wish should play tight with your sub?

I am very satisfied with the sound to say the least. The only think lacking is the bass impact.

By lack of bass impact you mean?
1. You want more low end rumble?
2. You want more midbass weight?
3. You want more kick from the midbass?
4. You want much bigger feel or presence of the existing bass you have?

The gain is set at 10 o'clock and the crossover at 80hz. The sub is placed in between the two speakers right next to the wall with the port facing me.

By the wall you mean the wall behind the sub right? Move the sub away from the wall be it the one behind or the sides by say about 1.5ft or so and notice the boom.

Does changing the phase from 0 to 180 control the bass? To my understanding it only causes a time delay. And doesn't setting a lower crossover make it less boomy as it directs the higher frequencies to the bookshelves?

In simpler terms it helps the sub merge better with the speaker. Not necessarily depends on how low the speaker can play well and when it starts fading you let the sub handle the rest. Its never perfect nor is it an absolute, Its a blend one has to achieve.

 

[Venkyrenga]

How low are your speakers playing that tight bass, what frequency range do you think? and what frequency do you wish should play tight with your sub?


By lack of bass impact you mean?
1. You want more low end rumble?
2. You want more midbass weight?
3. You want more kick from the midbass?
4. You want much bigger feel or presence of the existing bass you have?


By the wall you mean the wall behind the sub right? Move the sub away from the wall be it the one behind or the sides by say about 1.5ft or so and notice the boom.

My speakers may be playing well till 60hz. I just feel that after adding the sub it slightly muddles the mids. And if I reduce the gain further I lose the impact.

By impact I mean a bigger feel of the existing bass preferably with more extension.

Yes, the wall behind the sub. But the port isn't facing the wall it's on the other side.

 

[Phew]

My speakers may be playing well till 60hz. I just feel that after adding the sub it slightly muddles the mids. And if I reduce the gain further I lose the impact.

Well then drop the crossover further till the mudiness goes away, a floorstander would have been a better solution to your problem, it would have given you the scale as well as better extension in the bass (compared to your bookshelf and not a sub) without the fussiness of a subwoofer (by this I dont mean FS's are a replacemnet for subs). Now that you have a sub, you'll have to keep tinkering little by little with the crossover and gain till you have it to your liking.

By impact I mean a bigger feel of the existing bass preferably with more extension.

The answer was a Floorstander.

Yes, the wall behind the sub. But the port isn't facing the wall it's on the other side.

Thats ok to where its pointing, pull it out if possible and see if there a reduction in boom without compromising the impact

 

[DB1989]

Thats ok to where its pointing, pull it out if possible and see if there a reduction in boom without compromising the impact

Yes, the wall behind the sub. But the port isn't facing the wall it's on the other side.

I didn't know the 3060s had a port! where is it located?

 

[Venkyrenga]

I didn't know the 3060s had a port! where is it located?

So, is it sealed? I just assumed they have covered the port with some cloth (in the right side when you are facing the front).

 

[Phew]

I didn't know the 3060s had a port! where is it located?

Its an infinite baffle design and by where its pointing I meant the sub not the port, forgot to mention that

 

[Venkyrenga]

Well then drop the crossover further till the mudiness goes away, a floorstander would have been a better solution to your problem, it would have given you the scale as well as better extension in the bass (compared to your bookshelf and not a sub) without the fussiness of a subwoofer (by this I dont mean FS's are a replacemnet for subs). Now that you have a sub, you'll have to keep tinkering little by little with the crossover and gain till you have it to your liking.

Or may be something like Wharfdale Linton would do I suppose.
Also I am wondering if I got a better sub like SVS sb1000 pro, would it give expected results?

 

[Phew]

Or may be something like Wharfdale Linton would do I suppose.
Also I am wondering if I got a better sub like SVS sb1000 pro, would it give expected results?

Not all but most subwoofers start to creep out of their happy zone post 75-80hz. Where you are looking for added impact is where mostly subwoofers are rolling OFF so i'm not sure opting for a sub to enhance the 60-90hz range will be a good idea keeping in mind you want speed agility and tightness as the prime focus. Also keep in mind the size of a bookshelf has its physical limitations and adding a sub doesn't overcome all of them.
If you still want to go the subwoofer way you can look at the rel tzero mkIII or T5X, they are happy being crossed over at 90-95hz, to be honest my atc and t5i are crossed over at 27 clicks which IF the rel crossover dial is linear comes out to be 90.75hz and the mids are crisp and clear and if it is not linear then I have no clue where its been crossed over at.

There are many options in floorstanders you can look at for example:
1. PSB T20/x1t/x2t (very hard hitting midbass)
2. Fyne F303/F501 (more musical inthe midrange and high's)
3. Paradigm SE3000F/SE6000F/SE8000F (laid back, neutral sound)
4. Never heard the lintons so no clue about them

The above I have heard hence mentioning here

Funny when I heard the psb p5 bookshelf(10X9 room) I asked the shop owner where's the sub.

I am sure there will be many more speakers which other FM's can recommend and you can read up about and see if you wish to go the floorstander way if thats suits your budget.

 

[Venkyrenga]

If you still want to go the subwoofer way you can look at the rel tzero mkIII or T5X, they are happy being crossed over at 90-95hz, to be honest my atc and t5i are crossed over at 27 clicks which IF the rel crossover dial is linear comes out to be 90.75hz and the mids are crisp and clear and if it is not linear then I have no clue where its been crossed over at.

What makes 8" rel better than a 12" svs?

 

[DB1989]

Funny when I heard the psb p5 bookshelf(10X9 room) I asked the shop owner where's the sub.

A friend got a pair of P5s with the full intent of getting a sub later.

He's all but dropped his plans after he heard it in his room which is approx 11x20.

It has also transformed his couch into a massaging one - just turn on the music and you get a good and righteous shiatsu.

 

[Phew]

What makes 8" rel better than a 12" svs?

The ability to play cleaner, faster and better higher up.
The SVS starts to loose its grip post 65hz when it comes to music, it integrates better with speakers that can play well down into the 45hz range, by that range I mean the speakers that can play that frequency at +-3db and not +-10. The moving mass of the 12" also makes it harder for it to keep up with a 6.5in driver higher up the range in terms of agility and speed.

I'll share my known's case here he used a lumin d2>bryston 4b3>SF sonetto I>svs sb3000, after using it for more than 8 months and after numerous efforts we had not been able to integrate the sub and the speaker to a point where the sub is not very evident. Its crossed over at 60hz where we found it to blend the best(to our efforts) yet the low end was slightly hefty and thick, one could easily makeout a sub as playing, the upper bass was muddy, it just lacked synergy. Finally after cursing the sub for all this while and putting it up for sale, one fine day he went ahead and got himself used monitor audio pl 200 II and within a week he loves his SVS to the core, the subwoofer just shines and disappears in the whole setup crossed over at 43hz. The bass was already good with the speakers what the sub added was more depth and space to the already good bass along with extension.

So all in all it depends to what caters to your needs there are things that REL is good at then there are things that SVS is good at. In your case where the 8" rel will be good at is speed, start stop accuracy, kick, easier integration at higher frequency, ability to completely disappear VS the 12" svs on the other hand will have much better extension and dig much much deeper than the 8" rel (+-3db@20hz svs vs +-6db@32hz t5i), will be at home in being used in a HT application, rumble harder.

Rest if I have forgotten to mention anything or if I have mentioned something wrong FM's can add word of experience and advice

 

[DB1989]

What makes 8" rel better than a 12" svs?

For your requirements, I'd recommend a JL sub. It matches the REL Tx range for perceivable cleanliness, articulation and speed. Where the Tx range of REL simply can't stack up against a JL is extension, kick and start stop characteristic. The kicker is that JL achieves this is an incredibly compact form factor which is sealed to boot. I've measured (Umik+1 + REW) a 10" JL dig down clean (read a flat line and in a good way - though for the uninitiated, they may as well flat line if it catches them by surprise) from 60hz to 14hz at +/-3db, something the Tx series of REL simply can't touch.

I anticipate that your next question is going to be that the JLs (D110/E110) are rated at only 21hz so how could it dig that low? The answer lies in its sealed enclosure. A sealed sub leverages room gain to give better real world extension and a smoother roll off. My own REL T9i digs down to 25hz +/-3db though it's rated at 28hz +/- 6db.

The JL is up there with the S(510/810) series of REL. For the time being, REL subs are also overpriced.

Then, an SVS SB/PB1000 Pro is not even worthy of being mentioned in the same discussion.

If you want to "feel" your subwoofer without losing out on any of the hallmark characteristics of a REL, get a JL.

 

[Phew]

Given what venky is looking for a floorstander will be better. With the JL he will find the woofer not as tight as the mid of his elac even though there is nothing wrong with the sub the extension in the low end he wants will be there but the tight bass and bigger scale in the 60-90hz region will be lacking.

I would differ here on some points regarding JL subwoofers, excellent in their own regard and I found them to be better than svs in regards to music, when it comes to being musical they still lack behind rel somewhat, having used the E110(borrowed) it is not as musical or fast at the rel S series Infact I found the t9x to be more musical, fast and integrate better, JL they are again good if your speakers are good at low end extension. JL is more visceral and brutal in the lower end and provide a better feel of the bass along with excellent control matching Rel in the lower end, the Rel on the other hand can feel light footed and thin in those frequencies to my experience.

If its music/movies usage or slightly more low end feel and grunt I would personally choose a JL sub but if its solely for music I would go with rel or MJ acoustics but that's just me

Given the current pricing of rel only the sellers know what they ate(popularity most likely) while deciding the pricing.

I have asked my friend(mentioned in the post above) to try the JL E110 and see what a magical treat he is in for