Questions about Audio (Music) setup

[particleman]

Dinyaar's advice is spot on. A combination of Marantz PM-7001 amp (24k) and the KEF iQ5 put up for sale by Shahrukh would be the ideal combination. It would no longer be a "budget" setup but a huge leap forward. Do not worry about buying a used speaker if it is well maintained. In fact, you have the advantage of leap-frogging the whole "breaking in" phase of new speakers.

You can continue using a standard DVD player with this and get a better CD player down the line.

 

[SuhasG]

Dinyaar's advice is spot on. A combination of Marantz PM-7001 amp (24k) and the KEF iQ5 put up for sale by Shahrukh would be the ideal combination. It would no longer be a "budget" setup but a huge leap forward. Do not worry about buying a used speaker if it is well maintained. In fact, you have the advantage of leap-frogging the whole "breaking in" phase of new speakers.

You can continue using a standard DVD player with this and get a better CD player down the line.

Particleman , SRK's speaker pair was suggested to him (RahulP) way back , along with some pretty decent , well maintained amps (High End) going dirt cheap , but the guy then rejected the idea of pre-owned gear as if he has seen a ghost!! Let him learn from his own mistakes !!

 

[RahulP]

particleman, Thanks a lot for reminding me about PM7001. I really appreciate it. Also, thanks for your suggestion regarding pre-owned KEF iQ5 (which infact was suggested by SuhasG)

SuhasG,

I thank you again for taking out time to give your valuable suggestion. Now about your recent post :

but the guy then rejected the idea of pre-owned gear as if he has seen a ghost!! Let him learn from his own mistakes !!

Frankly, your post containing unnecessary harsh words made me angry and sad also. I have swallowed both feelings for the simple reason that this forum, everything we are talking about is MUSIC ! Music means peace and happiness !!!

Now, read without any prejudice and see if my point of view makes any sense. If it doesn't pls declare that you disagree and we close the topic. No hard feelings !!!

1. Look again at the reply i gave you for your suggestion which was a perfect solution according to YOU (why else would you suggest it and i again appreciate the passion with which you suggested it)

@SuhasG : please don't misunderstand but somehow i did not consider the option of pre-owned stuff mainly because
1. i don't have sufficient knowledge yet about many brands (& specific models), how to make sure the equipment is in good condition etc.
2. There is always some peace of mind (valid or false ) about support etc. when you buy brand new.
3. I was under the (wrong?) impression that 50K is a lot of money for a 'budget' audio system

Thanx again for the advice guys..

did you read ? It starts with 'please do not misunderstand...' (which you unfortunately did !).. I have given 3 (logical according to ME !) reasons why i did not consider pre-owned.

Does it look like to you (think objectively) that i reacted as if i have seen a ghost !!!!!!!! (if it still does, pls don't waste time in reading ahead) ?

If somebody suggests you a solution , and for your own reason/logic (the other person can't know/feel ALL the aspects of your situation !), you decide not to follow the suggestion, does that automatically make you a definite 'mistake-maker' ?????

2. Its not a 'mistake' you should be upset about so much ( its not life-death or strategic war decision which can't be corrected ! expensive yes, but possible to 'correct' if it was a mistake in the first place ! )

3. Let me give you an analogy: say a man is using a scooter and his dream for a nice little car is about to come true and now somebody suggest him that with extra 50% he can get a used mercedes. The man still goes for the NEW little car (for various reasons ) does that automatically make him a stupid mistake maker ? or there might be his point of view ???

4. About learning "from own mistakes", i believe that decision has to be one's own - right or wrong.. !!! I politely told you that i did not consider pre-owned and this was my decision even before i posted my first post (and obviously before you gave your suggestion) ! I have a tendency to buy new things after research - rather than 'superior' used ones.. its my choice ! period. and don't you think sound quality, value for money etc. are SUBJECTIVE ?

5. As you said in one of the post, life is too short to waste time in fighting... am restricting myself in this post from using any harsh words or "counter attack". We both have better things to do in our respective lives.. Choice is yours now ..

I again thank you for spending time to give your suggestion.
regards,
Rahul

 

[SuhasG]

Rahul, I too started in this journey with similar thinking as that of yours now.

When I was in the market, I too asked similar question/s on the forum (other forum, this forum was not born by that time), many suggestions poured in, especially for pre-owned gears but I ignored all those good deals (I still regret not considering that Cadence ANINA pair, Cadence VA-1 HP and that NAIM kit ).

I went ahead and bought everything new. But soon I realized that within the given budget, I could have gotten far better system had I gone the pre-owned route. Later I sold all those new components and re-built my system using all pre-owned gears. Now I have a killer system for 50% of the retail pricing.

Yes, that word 'mistake' could be wrong, but when I saw that sparkling , absolute mint condition Jolida 1501 RC 100 WPC (the one , I suggested earlier) , went for just 20 K! (An amp that is much much better than any and all brands you are considering / auditioning right now. ) I really felt you ( Rahul) are doing mistake in not considering some good pre-owned deals available right here in the same city. You should have given at least one single look at that amp. I could have helped you in removing any doubts regarding 'Pre-owned' gear, I could have joined you for auditioning any such pre-owned gear/s.


I am not saying that buying new is a mistake but disregarding some nice deals (like the one I mentioned) certainly is , IMHO.

I would any day prefer, buying a pre-owned Honda/ Skoda / Toyota at Rs 3 Lakh rather than buying a brand new Maruti / Hyundai for Rs 2.5 Lakh!

I am sorry that my comment hurt you. No hard feelings from my side and my best wishes to you.

 

[bhuvanmisra]

rahul,
do keep us posted as to what you finally ended up buying would be great if you could take some time off with info on pune specific dealers, experiences etc. at http://www.hifivision.com/groups/pune.html

suhas,
i'd love to "pile on" in case you plan to make any more auditions (in pune) for "pre-owned" equipment. it's a lot easier to go to a showroom and look up new stuff. i'm not in a tearing hurry to buy my 1st 2 channel setup and some "depth and breadth" of first hand knowledge and experience would certainly help.

--bhuvan.

 

[SuhasG]

suhas,
i'd love to "pile on" in case you plan to make any more auditions (in pune) for "pre-owned" equipment. it's a lot easier to go to a showroom and look up new stuff. i'm not in a tearing hurry to buy my 1st 2 channel setup and some "depth and breadth" of first hand knowledge and experience would certainly help.

--bhuvan.

Good thinking Bhuvan. The more you audition (with an open / unbiased mind) the more it helps you in pin-pointing your reqirements, and in getting a fair idea about what might float your boat. You will have some benchmarks / ref points to compae / evaluate. Leave no stone unturned before signing on those dotted lines.

Sure, I will let you know of any such 'auditioning' opportunity, it will be my pleasure in having chat with you.

 

[bhuvanmisra]

rahul,

la-kozy @ chowpatty is a good place to audition multiple models from nad (electronics) and psb (speakers). they have a pretty decent variety for these relatively inexpensive brands and you might just end up finding something that fit's into your liking and budget there. they normally expect their customers to take appointments and come (so that they can give undivided attention, on holidays/weekends...!).

so plan you trip from pune to mumbai accordingly. in case you are not planning to stay over in the night you would also need to plan your route wisely to visit all the dealers in a day trip. starting with an early morning appointment in south bombay, move up north and then get out of the island for pune using the nearest west --> east link road. i smell the ... traveling salesperson problem ...

hth.

--bhuvan.

 

[RahulP]

Thanks Bhuvan for the tips.

I will keep you (all) posted.

 

[dinyaar]

Hi Rahul,
Some speakers are easy loads and a 40 W amp can drive them well. Too many variables to give a difinitive answer. Some speakers(Dyna s) mention differrent amp power ratings for small/medium and large rooms too.
Good that u are contemplating coming to bbay for auditioning various components. But even here it is sometimes difficult to hear a variety of brands under one roof. Lakozy will push u to Nad though they should also have marantz/Arcam, Designer Audio will only have quad in electronics IMO. Visit Boomerang at Juhu if u have the time. They should have electronics from Arcam/cyrus/MF/Marantz/Quad/Advance accoustics and tons of speakers from MA/Quad/Morel/Dali.
Regards

 

[RahulP]

Hello to all,

just a quick update from my side about auditions - hope its helpful to some of you looking for similar stuff:

As i was told that psb speakers 'go well with' / 'worldwide accepted combination with' NAD , i went for auditioning. But.. it was disappointing and this was after the demo pair had 'opened up' / 'break-in'. I think the model was Image B25 but i may be wrong. (didn't bother to remember it ). Overall, the clarity was not there... it was a disappointment with 'bass' also ('come together' - beatles)

They also had Polk audio RTi A3. Immediately, the mid-range clarity was almost 'visible' : much more clear... and the speakers were new - just out of the box. The bass was good too (though had to increase the volume a little to get the real impact - about 10 o'clock). I found the high range bit harsh at times (more than few times )... Although i must say the sound didn't touch my heart.

Did combinations with NAD 325bee, NAD 355bee and Marantz PM6002:

* Didn't find much diff. in listening experience between 325 and 355.. I was told 325 won't be inadequate at any time powering 100w speakers (i was convinced about that after listening to it)
* THe sound was more 'rounded' with Marantz.. the clarity was slightly compromised. I felt the sound was more 'soothing' if thats the word

so thats it for now. The search and research continues..

cheers

 

[wnrao]

i am also looking for a stereo amp + speakers for 50K. the info is comprehensive n complete with model numbers and price. i feel this info will be useful for many and is exactly what i am looking for.thanks

1) i have made up mind (after doing a lot of reading i.e.) that i should go for stereo amplifier rather than a receiver as am mainly

interested in music (though am a movie buff, don't like HT concept much and believe that 2 front speakers should bring similar impact if they are basically good !).. can somebody pls confirm ?

Yes ...CONFIRMED

2) How do you evaluate the amplifier .. do you keep on trying diff. amplifiers with the same speakers at the dealer?

yes, same speakers and same source

3) which brings me to the next question : Frequency of auditioning .. after applying common sense , what is 'normal' as far as following is concerned :
a) no. of visits per dealer
b) time spent at each visit

before one makes the final decision

there's no hard and fast answer for this. You need to listen till you are satisfied. Even one visit can sometimes do.


4) How important is the 'source'.. i mean i was amazed to see people spending and recommending double the what i spent on my current 3 dvd all in one system . Is it worth it ?

the source is very important...in the pecking order, it is just below speakers and well above the amplification.

5) Does step by step shopping make sense... e.g. say recommendations and things i like - they come to around 80K.. does it make sense to buy the amplifier first and listen with current sony speakers for couple of months (or more ) and then go for speakers ... or just wait ! (or buy cheaper option NOW .. and dream .. and wait )

step by step can work....but don't involve your Sony in all this.....it's not in the same league......i'll explain how you can do step by step at the end of this post

6) what is the ideal ratio of power of amplifier and speakers e.g. i heard low power amp can harm speakers (clipping) more easily than reverse case... so with above shortlist is 50W amp with 100W speaker a good idea ?

poor matching is bad, whether it is over-powering or under-powering....avoid both

What to buy?

50k is a very decent budget for a budget audio setup. Options include

Speakers

Wharfedale Diamond 9.2s (14k)
Polk Audio RTi A1 (15k)
PSB alpha B1 (15k?)
Tannoy Mercury F1 Custom (16k)
Monitor Audio BR2 (16.5k)

Source

Cambridge Audio 340C (14k), 540c (18k) or 640C (20k)
NAD C515 BEE (15k), not sure about the higher ones
Marantz 5001 (15k), 6002 (18k?)

Amplifier

Cambridge Audio 340A (14k), 340A SE (16k)
NAD C315BEE (16k)
Marantz PM4001 (16k?)

You can mix and match from the above combos. from your musical tastes, personally, based purely on reviews and not auditions (which is why YOU need to do the auditioning), i would say go for the Cambridge Audio 540C (18k) + Cambridge Audio 340A SE (16k) + Wharfedale Diamond 9.2 (14k) = 48K...or you can go for the CA 640C CD player.....to bring the total to a nice round 50k

You would need to spend maybe a few hundred bucks or so on cables. The speakers would perform much better on stands (rather than shelves or the tops of desks/tables), but those can be bought at a later time. A pair of stands can cost 5k and upwards. I think getting them assembled may be cheaper.

ENJOY!

 

[RahulP]

Hello All Music Lovers,

Update from my side :

The search is still on... waiting to audition wharfedale 9.2 and Tannoy F1.

Meanwhile, auditioned wharfedale 9.1 with NAD 325bee and CA 540A.
The speakers appeared bit brighter than the 1st audition, i guess because the speaker grille were taken off (infact misplaced by the dealer ) (also i think because earlier it was Marantz 4001)
NAD was dynamic, reasonably good. The room accoustics - not very ideal.. some traffic noise was also filtering in.

Somehow (& may be my ears ! YMMV !) on that day, CA 540A sounded very dull.. The explanation given by dealer was 'as you go higher - quality wise - the amps are pretty laid back - especially with vocals' . But this was too dull - at least for me !

Also , i know it doesn't matter - but psychologically it made a difference when 12 0'clock volume of CA couldn't bring that punch what NAD at 9 or 10 o'clock was able to...

Again this is with me & particular speakers & particular room size and accoustics ! so those in research mode - pls consider this as just one more input and trust your own ears.

btw, i try to do a systematic audition with specific songs (mostly in specific sequence). I listen each item for about 1 min.

Just wanted to share the info.. so here it is :

• 'titali dabochali' and 'dhuan dhuna' (asha) - meenaxi movie (good sound quality - modern recording - overall)
• tere bina jiya jayena - ghar , chura liya hai - YKB- hamaracd customized cd (vocal)
• come together - beatles (bass)
• doston se pyar kiya - shaan (instruments, bass - acid test )
• 2 tracks - millenium - backstreet boys (only album i have and like) (bass - the 'thud' thickness and quickness)
• competition song start -- hum kisise kam nahi etc.
• sound of silence - simon & garfunkel etc. (soothing sound)
• voulez vous - Abba

I am too tempted to audition with 'Earth - Vanraj Bhatia' but
* can't do justice in 1 min
* have bought the CD and kept it sealed.. to be listened directly on the new setup (had the cassette earlier so i know )


cheers !!!

 

[RahulP]

FINALLY,

i bought wharfedale 9.2 speakers yesterday !!!!

now for the amp, the fight is between NAD 325bee and Marantz PM7001. Both have pros and cons...

For those interested in wharfedale 9.x, i would say hurry up (make your decision about speaker first - which anyway is recommended and actually buy it !) because the dealer showed me the new price list that is now applicable !

Thanx again everybody ..

cheers !

 

[magma]

i would consider a marantz over a NAD to drive warfedales.
(this is purely my opinion since i find NAD too laid back with warfedales, marantz is a bit more ummm lively.)
Im most probably considering a NAD for myself however your speaker combination has prompted this advice

Warfedale with a new pricelist.
hmm.. if warfedale insreased the price for the 9.2's to more than 14k (say even about 1.5 k more) then i would not consider it to be the MOST VFM speaker in its budget anymore

 

[marsilians]

Somethings to keep in mind....

NAD's have true to spec power ratings and usually rated conservatively and have very lively sound esp. for music. They tend to drive difficult loads rather well.

The Marantz's are excellent as well though recently there is a lot of focus on feature set. I think the comparison becomes real hard when you speak about the 8 series Marantz though it is premium priced.

If I were in Rahul's position, I would audition both very carefully. I would also not be surprised if NADs came out as the choice.

 

[afj]

FINALLY,

i bought wharfedale 9.2 speakers yesterday !!!!

now for the amp, the fight is between NAD 325bee and Marantz PM7001. Both have pros and cons...

For those interested in wharfedale 9.x, i would say hurry up (make your decision about speaker first - which anyway is recommended and actually buy it !) because the dealer showed me the new price list that is now applicable !

Thanx again everybody ..

cheers !

with the pound going down i would think that prices should atleast stay constant if not go down. in saying that wharfedales (and i think quads too - they're part of the same group) sell at a very competitive price in india when compared to the rest of the world. its one of the only speakers i know of that sells for the same or more in america

 

[RahulP]

Hi All,

Finally i got NAD 325bee on Saturday (from Mumbai) .

Price : 21.5K (supposed to be 'discounted' and its because i bought the speakers from the same dealer)

Sound is just amazing !!!! I luv it !

yet to make the ideal/perfect setup for the new audio equipments but now is the time to just ENJOY music and forget the technicalities for a while

cheers !!!

 

[gobble]

Hi All,

Finally i got NAD 325bee on Saturday (from Mumbai) .

Price : 21.5K (supposed to be 'discounted' and its because i bought the speakers from the same dealer)

Sound is just amazing !!!! I luv it !

yet to make the ideal/perfect setup for the new audio equipments but now is the time to just ENJOY music and forget the technicalities for a while

cheers !!!

I got a NAD c325BEE and diamond 9.2s too. And My name is Rahul too.
Now is that plain coincidence or are you imitating me starting with the name?

What CDP did you get ?

Cheers

 

[gobble]

I got a NAD c325BEE and diamond 9.2s too. And My name is Rahul too.
Now is that plain coincidence or are you imitating me starting with the name?

What CDP did you get ?

Cheers

And yes .. I am from Pune too .. currently in Bangalore ..

 

[rsud]

Hello,
I have just joined this group and am an Indian audiophile (vinyl rules!) living in the USA.

Verrrry happy to see that the audiophile bug exists in India. Though I am sure that much like the USA its a small group of passonate music lovers who listen to music and are moved by the quality of re-production!!

For your starter system I see some good stuff mentioned. But I want to suggest that you also pay attention to cables and try to find some that are practical for your budget. Kimber Kable 4tc is a very good starter speaker cable. Their Hero interconnects are also quite good. There are other brands such as Audioquest, Cardas, etc.

Do stay away from Monster Cable. Their cables are mostly hype. Back 30 years ago they did make good cables and I hear some good things about their very expensive cables (but have never heard them).

The second is power conditioning. Monster Cable does make some very good low priced surge protectors / power conditioners.

Both of these will make a large difference in your music reproduction and will reward you if you are listening to music as a primary function (vs. listening to music as background).

Rajiv