Room Treatment Advice

[sound_cycle]

Got two bags of Rockwool. The transport was expensive!

Wrapped up a couple of slabs in bedsheets and experimenting with where to place them. Interesting so far, just 2 4" 6 sft on back wall and the near side wall makes such a difference !

ciao
gr

 

[Kannan]

LEDR... fascinating stuff. Here's some test on the net we can do without buying CDs...
Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording Test
~

It is a great site I have all its files in wav format. Had used it long ago for the initial tuning of my car audio and later fine tuning with IASCA and EMMA CD's.
Sir, can you by the way tell me how I can place an image inline within my posts in this forum?

thanks. There are also little arrows which allow the .wav to be downloaded too.

Before trying room correction, first get a frequency response chart to know where the peaks and dips are. See if you can correct these dips and peaks with small alterations in speaker positioning.

To get a rough idea of the peaks and dips, use your PC's sound card, a decent mike (it need not even be a calibrated mike), a software player like foobar with a free plugin like MathAudio.
Another option would be to run pink noise and RTA (apps are available for android phones and ipad or use REW on your PC) to get the frequency chart.

My listening room is almost same as that of yours. I am using software based correction to weed out the crests and troughs as my music source is PC based. Just too lazy to EQ to make it sound even better. The only physical correction I have employed include thick curtains for windows and a ceiling level curtain in the section that separates the dining and drawing area. The curtains are usually drawn only during serious listening sessions.

I had a glass top dining table, it has now been replaced by a much smaller and full wood dining table. At the front right corner, I have stacked old newspapers as absorbent/diffuser. The front left corners are far away so does not bring in any colouration. The speakers are placed about 15 inches from the rear wall and I preferably sit about 3 feet away from the wall behind the listening position. Since I use ambiophonics, my speakers are just 80 cms apart from their centers.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Before trying room correction, first get a frequency response chart to know where the peaks and dips are. See if you can correct these dips and peaks with small alterations in speaker positioning.

I think that it is not just about peaks and dips. There are also the bad effects of listening to those reflections along with the music (eg from side walls). I've never done any home room correction, and don't even have a room I could do it in now, but I really notice the harshness caused by reflections in live-music venues.

 

[Ambio]

Side wall reflection is a necessary evil.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Not to the point where it hurts the ears it isn't!

 

[Ambio]

I wouldn't know.....am using aluminium sheets for side wall reflections

 

[sound_cycle]

Before trying room correction, first get a frequency response chart to know where the peaks and dips are<snip>use your PC's sound card, a decent mike

Thanks TEG, Kannan.

ATM I have no idea how to read a frequency response chart. The medium term goal is to figure that out. On the route to get there will have to build myself some CAPS type thingy, get a mic, run a DSP etc (my current PC is not upto the task)

ciao
gr

 

[sound_cycle]

Hi

This is what happened over the past few days

The wife eventually agreed that the ugly scratchy rockwool did improve audio and took the trouble to get them framed in pinewood and installed.

Wood is recycled (50 kg of scrap pinewood) and the frames were built by a carpenter at home to a wife ka design. The wrapped slabs simply sit inside them. The ceiling cloud has them slabs in a cage of slats.

Was not an inexpensive project, about 15k shared three ways between the rockwool (and transport), pinewood (and transport) and carpenter. there is some kharcha that remains to complete the project.

It has made a tremendous difference to the sound, imaging, sound stage, bass, vocals all are much better - lively room so bigger difference

The eagle eye may notice a slightly non standard configuration but that's the wife design. I'd postion two of them a bit differently but I am not complaining.

Still WIP, Paul Klee reproduction prints to cover them are in the pipeline

Now it seems so silly and pointless this earlier notion of mine, that it was all about buying decent speakers and hooking them up ...

Next step is to build that music pc and get REW dsp goodness (at the moment though I don't even know why I should). And a carpet

ciao
gr

 

[mpw]

thats nice...especially when realization dawns that sound is more than just connecting equipment. It involves the room as well.

Good sound can be achieved at a moderate price if we know the room.

good work !

PS : why are the speakers planced on a stand ? use the isolation spikes provided...

PS2 : try removing the TV from there for only a few days.. ( i know there would be resistance but give it a shot )

mpw

 

[sidvee]

Now it seems so silly and pointless this earlier notion of mine, that it was all about buying decent speakers and hooking them up ...

Excellent work sound_cycle. And so true - it amazes me how much people argue over cables, speakers amps. sources etc., when the most critical component that will make or break your system is the room & taming its acoustics. Hardly anyone talks about this, let alone argue:lol:. Also it amazes me even more when people buy & bring expensive high end equipment into their rooms that have absolutely no acoustic treatment. I can only imagine how much better their experience would be if they spent 10% of their total outlay on some acoustic advice & treatment.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[koushik]

Now it seems so silly and pointless this earlier notion of mine, that it was all about buying decent speakers and hooking them up ...

Treating the room is a real eye opener and one can seldom be apprehensive about it without performing one. So the new budget distribution thumb rule should be - Equipment 80%, Cables 10% and room acoustic 10%

 

[koushik]

It has made a tremendous difference to the sound, imaging, sound stage, bass, vocals all are much better - lively room so bigger difference

Excellent! Now few bass traps at the corner will make more even distribution of bass frequencies.

I am in the city, so can catch up some day if you have time.

 

[sound_cycle]

PS : why are the speakers planced on a stand ? use the isolation spikes provided...

PS2 : try removing the TV from there for only a few days.. ( i know there would be resistance but give it a shot )

The speakers do have that aluminum plinth arrangement, however a bit short, in that the tweeters are below ear level when seated.

I agree that the imaging would probably be better without that flat sheet of glass in the middle. Apart from domestic strife issues, the WDTV I use as a source needs that display. The long term idea is to have a music pc that I can control using gizmo or something from my mobile (the PC I have is way too noisy)

I can only imagine how much better their experience would be if they spent 10% of their total outlay on some acoustic advice & treatment.

I did not imagine how dramatic a change it could make (even though I knew my room was far from ideal)

The conversion of wife from very skeptical (about this whole audio thing) to doing the build and install (and kicking me out of the sweet spot) is at least equally dramatic.

Excellent! Now few bass traps at the corner will make more even distribution of bass frequencies.

I am in the city, so can catch up some day if you have time.

shhh! I have a sackful of Rockwool saved up for that. Will measure the room before adding more treatment though I think.

Would be good to meet up. Which part of town are you in ? Most welcome to come over

Thanks.

ciao
gr

 

[sidvee]

The conversion of wife from very skeptical (about this whole audio thing) to doing the build and install (and kicking me out of the sweet spot) is at least equally dramatic.

I think the big takeaway, for me at-least is how you managed to get your better half involved. I think right there 80% of the battle is won for you in your future upgrades etc. Are you by any chance a Marketing professional in your job:lol:
Cheers,
Sid

 

[mpw]

agree with sidvee !!

most important to win the war without the battle / jostle at home..

)

mpw

 

[soulforged]

Good job Sound Cycle :clapping:

The trouble with most of us is that we do not have the luxury of having a dedicated space for our listning and the living room only allows you that much freedom for playig around with positions and treatment (without risking marital bliss)...your build gives hope

BTW what are you using for measuring the room?

 

[sound_cycle]

Hi,

I think the big takeaway, for me at-least is how you managed to get your better half involved

To be entirely honest I have not a clue how I got her to agree to the treatment especially the ceiling cloud

most important to win the war without the battle / jostle at home..

which somehow happened ...

BTW what are you using for measuring the room?

So far it has been meter tape I know, I know, by ear is not quite enough

However not being very brave I have yet to bring up the topic of the intended purchase of UMIK and the music PC that I want to run REW on

I have not really made up my mind because I need the UMIK essentially for a one time measurement

ciao
gr

 

[soulforged]

So far it has been meter tape I know, I know, by ear is not quite enough

However not being very brave I have yet to bring up the topic of the intended purchase of UMIK and the music PC that I want to run REW on

I have not really made up my mind because I need the UMIK essentially for a one time measurement

ciao
gr

LOL...I was anticipating that response :lol:

Maybe someone with the equipment in this forum can lend you for some time...

 

[Fillmore]

Talking about room treatment and the bare basics.
If you dont have the possibility of setting up a dedicated room with the foam treatment etc... for whatever reasons.

Will it make any difference in the acoustics if you go with Wall paper vs regular paints on the walls ?

-Fillmore

 

[sidvee]

Will it make any difference in the acoustics if you go with Wall paper vs regular paints on the walls ?

-Fillmore

Yes there will difference in acoustics but, as far as I know, it will not make any meaningful difference. For any room treatment to work over the whole frequency spectrum, it has to be thick - what is termed as broad band absorption. Even thin treatments like 1-2" open cell foams will only impact the higher frequencies while doing nothing below say 200-300hz. And unfortunately most listening rooms will have major issues in the 300 hz and below. However rather than tune a room by ear it is better to map it out first with measuring tools and then decide what and how much treatment is required.
Cheers,
Sid