Samsung 64e8000 - pixel flickering/dancing around?

nSinghal

Active Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
356
Points
43
Location
Delhi
Is this normal? Unlike LCD/led where all pixels are like a paint on the screen (fixed,clear and permanent), on the samsung, the pixels seem like they are dancing around (bad descriptions but I hope you get the idea). As if they were flickering or something. It's not as much visible when viewed from 10 feet (but still noticable) but if you get closer, the pixels look like they're moving around and changing color (somewhat like the black and white noise screen when you get no signal on an analog tv connection) instead of showing a fixed color even when the image is paused. I don't see any such issue in any of the TVs I've seen so far. Not even on the projector I have no matter how close I'm standing.

Is this normal? I tried to fiddle around with settings a bit to see if there was some sort of anti IR function which was causing this flickering and changed a few options but nothing helped. I have seen only one other plasma tv when I auditioned panasonics last year and there I was sitting 5 feet away but don't remember any such issue (but admittedly, that was a long time ago). Also remember trying out 51e8000 around the same time and don't think I saw any such issue there either.

Is there something wrong with this particular unit? Or is this how plasmas work? Atleast Samsung's? If that's the case then this tv, or any other plasma, is not worth it IMHO. It looks like crap. Most people probably won't notice it but I find it hard to believe that even online reviewers will miss something like this.

Please help me figure out what's wrong here.
 
Whatever you are observing is normal to TVs that show the image by glowing/igniting phosphor cells. I can observe flickering pixels if I move as close as 2 feet. As the distance increases the so called flickering is less and less apparent till it disappears completely.
 
What distance are you seeing it from?
You will see these if you go close to the TV. Even CRTs exhibit this.
You cant see it in normal viewing distance of >8 foot.
If you see, forget the plasmas. They are not for you.
If you don't, stop cribbing.
 
What distance are you seeing it from?
You will see these if you go close to the TV. Even CRTs exhibit this.
Still have a CRT and its a lot better than what I'm seeing on the samsung.

You cant see it in normal viewing distance of >8 foot.
If you see, forget the plasmas. They are not for you.
If you don't, stop cribbing.

Like I already posted, it's noticeable (though not as apparent) even from 10 feet away. The tv is not in my room so haven't spent much time with it yet but after reading so much about plasma's better PQ, this certainly is a shocker for me. Even when the screen is mostly dark (say the tata sky logo inside a small black box which shows up when you hi the select button on remote), the black isn't black. Maybe my expectations from plasmas were a bit too high. Will go to a panasonic showroom today evening and see if thy have the same issue (or more importantly, the same issue with same intensity as Sammy 64") or not. If its still there then I guess plasmas aren't for me. Didn't like the PQ of lg 7600 my dad has either. The Epson PJ is miles ahead of either (though only with HD and lights off) IMHO. Apples to oranges here but in the ends its the image you're watching which matters. Not how it was produced.
 
The tv is not in my room so haven't spent much time with it yet but after reading so much about plasma's better PQ, this certainly is a shocker for me. Even when the screen is mostly dark (say the tata sky logo inside a small black box which shows up when you hi the select button on remote), the black isn't black. Maybe my expectations from plasmas were a bit too high.

Blank screen wont be completely black it rather will be a very dark grey(unlike LCD which has a black panel when you turn it off) as the color of the entire plasma panel,it will be black if you display a full black image or when the screen is completely blank(TV turned ON) or on black bars depending upon various factors and settings.

Also the screen disappearing mostly depends upon the amount of light and reflection you have in the room and how well the TV is calibrated.

64" E8000 along with VT50 is the best plasma of 2012 so may be your taste for picture quality is different and you probably might like LCD.

you seriously believe an epson projector displays better imagine than a top end plasma like E8000? sweet:D I have some experience watching video's from a few projects from JVC and they did produce great images but still i wont compare them with top end plasma's.

If its still there then I guess plasmas aren't for me.

Yep, that's the answer maybe plasma's are not for you. I still remember my cousin buying a VT20 and not satisfied with it one bit and getting it replaced for a 7 series Samsung edge led LCD, so everyone has their own taste and perception of pic quality but the measurements cannot be wrong,also it does not necessarily mean you have to like a television which was measured to be the best.
 
Still have a CRT and its a lot better than what I'm seeing on the samsung.



Like I already posted, it's noticeable (though not as apparent) even from 10 feet away. The tv is not in my room so haven't spent much time with it yet but after reading so much about plasma's better PQ, this certainly is a shocker for me. Even when the screen is mostly dark (say the tata sky logo inside a small black box which shows up when you hi the select button on remote), the black isn't black. Maybe my expectations from plasmas were a bit too high. Will go to a panasonic showroom today evening and see if thy have the same issue (or more importantly, the same issue with same intensity as Sammy 64") or not. If its still there then I guess plasmas aren't for me. Didn't like the PQ of lg 7600 my dad has either. The Epson PJ is miles ahead of either (though only with HD and lights off) IMHO. Apples to oranges here but in the ends its the image you're watching which matters. Not how it was produced.

These are normal Plasma problems which nobody tells you before advising you to buy it, that is the problem with plasma fanboys, they always worship plasma and praise its positive points but cleverly and cunningly hide the many negative points.

I will advise you to go for a High-end LED if you can afford it as they are expensive when compared to plasma for the same size.
 
Blank screen wont be completely black it rather will be a very dark grey(unlike LCD which has a black panel when you turn it off) as the color of the entire plasma panel,it will be black if you display a full black image or when the screen is completely blank(TV turned ON) or on black bars depending upon various factors and settings.
It's not about the color but the solidity (for lack of better explanation) of it. If its even the least bit flickering, then I'd prefer less accurate blacks/colors of a projector than the more accurate, yet less pleasant image of a plasma.

64" E8000 along with VT50 is the best plasma of 2012 so may be your taste for picture quality is different and you probably might like LCD.
That's the problem. I didn't like LCD either. I'll prefer it over 64e8000 (with its flickering) any day but its still not something I'd consider as a satisfying experience worth the money. Even my 55" projection tv of yesteryear's is miles better than either (except its freakin huge and SD only and the lamp is all but dead since last year). With a new lamp and HD capabilities, it would certainly be better than any plasma or led.

you seriously believe an epson projector displays better imagine than a top end plasma like E8000? sweet:D I have some experience watching video's from a few projects from JVC and they did produce great images but still i wont compare them with top end plasma's.
I guess its more of an expectation thing. I never expected the darkest, inkiest blacks from the PJ and knew PQ will not be better than either a plasma or even an LCD. But combined with the (easily) 4X bigger screen than what you'd find in a TV and how easy and comforting the image is to the eyes, I'd prefer it over any TV be it plasma or led.



Yep, that's the answer maybe plasma's are not for you. I still remember my cousin buying a VT20 and not satisfied with it one bit and getting it replaced for a 7 series Samsung edge led LCD, so everyone has their own taste and perception of pic quality but the measurements cannot be wrong,also it does not necessarily mean you have to like a television which was measured to be the best.

I'm still holding out hope that its just this tv which has this issue to this extreme. Or atleast the panasonics are better in this regard. All these reviewers can't be wrong. How come I never noticed anyone mentioning this when I was looking into the reviews and comparisons between plasmas and LEDs. Too hard to believe the "fanboys" would hide such an issue. Dont believe in such conspiracies. Maybe they get used to it enough to not find it worth mentioning I guess?

Btw, does this improve after some usage? I read about plasma PQ increasing after 100-200 hours but no idea if that includes this issue.
 
Last edited:
As I stated before, I observe the dots/pixel only at very close distance. In an LCD/LED, one observes horizontal lines. This is NOT a defect or limitation. The larger the TV, more clearer the dots may be. One will not (easily) observe this in small TVs/monitors - the effect is still there however.

The effect will not improve or degrade over time. The only thing that happens with plasma panel after 200 hours or so is that it has aged properly and its phosphors have been exposed to enough light. I personally don't consider this an issue at all - be it plasma or LCD.
 
Thats normal for plasma tvs some plasma brands exhibit more then others these and some review sites like HDTVtest do mention it.

I assume you are seeing something similar to picture on the right vs the normal picture from the left.
mcvv3l.png
 
As I stated before, I observe the dots/pixel only at very close distance. In an LCD/LED, one observes horizontal lines. This is NOT a defect or limitation. The larger the TV, more clearer the dots may be. One will not (easily) observe this in small TVs/monitors - the effect is still there however.
Pixels being viewable is not the issue. I can see them on everything including the 133" Screen+PJ, 55"LG led, 64" Sammy and even the puny 19" (though 720p) samsung LCD in my office as long as I'm watching it from close enough distance. This creates a screen door effect but thats nowhere as annoying as this noise-like effect I see on the samsung plasma. The flickering/dancing/whatever pixels made the tv unviewable for me at close distance. Though from my intended viewing distance (ie 15-24') I didn't notice anything so I guess this is a moot point in the end. It's just that up close it looks really bad and very much annoying. And most importantly, not something I had expected or was prepared for. Was more worried that I had a defected panel or something.

Anyways, spent a bit more time with the Sammy during lunch and after a bit more fiddling around with settings (game mode mainly), it does seem like it won't be an issue from a proper distance (say 2+ times the screens diagonal size) atleast. Also, from that distance, the LG led doesnt come anywhere close to the quality of samsung plasma. Especially with the lights off. With a samsung plasma and epson tw8100, I thinks it's the best combo I can have for my room.

If anyone was planning to watch a plasma from less than twice the diagonal size of the tv (ie, 65" from 10' or 55' from 9'), I personally wouldn't recommend it to them coz of this issue. An led will serve them a lot better IMO. Guess now I realize why people prefer LEDs over plasma. LEDs are just no-nonsense stuff making them an easy choice. Whereas plasma, while definitely giving you a better image, is prone with multiple issues like IR, burn in, heat, buzzing sound, heavy, and more (with varying degrees in various models but none totally free of these issues). Only advantage would be price and PQ (as long as you're not sitting too close). But LEDs don't look crap either. They are decent, available in all price ranges, and with much less issues.

The effect will not improve or degrade over time. The only thing that happens with plasma panel after 200 hours or so is that it has aged properly and its phosphors have been exposed to enough light. I personally don't consider this an issue at all - be it plasma or LCD.
Eh, LCD/LEDs (atleast the ones I've seen) don't have this issue. They have their own limitations for sure but not the dancing pixels.
 
I just reached home and checked this so called flickering and snow on an HD channel (Star Cricket HD). No dancing dots, flickering, snow was observed from as close as 1 foot. Right up to the screen slight pixels could be seen. Even on SD channel out was no coherent other than the SD artifacts. The pixel dots are as big as the point of a needle.

This I believe is normal behaviour. So much for a "hidden" plasma fault.

Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
I just reached home and checked this so called flickering and snow on an HD channel (Star Cricket HD). No dancing dots, flickering, snow was observed from as close as 1 foot. Right up to the screen slight pixels could be seen. Even on SD channel out was no coherent other than the SD artifacts. The pixel dots are as big as the point of a needle.

This I believe is normal behaviour. So much for a "hidden" plasma fault.

Sent from my GT-I9100G using Tapatalk 2

Damn it. Wth? Now I'm back to square one? Does that mean my TV is defected? Will check out the panasonic plasma tomm to see if this is only showing up on my samsung :(
 
T
I assume you are seeing something similar to picture on the right vs the normal picture from the left.
mcvv3l.png

Stop posting irrelevant pic and give wrong example, if you don't understand the OP then stay away from the thread.

This pic was posted by you a long while ago here stating you took it from AVS,a member has already explained which i also agree with him that the pic on the right has banding which is not related to pixel dancing or dithering, so without relevance to the issue stating the pic on right is what the OP is seeing is laughable.If we talk about banding what the last pic exhibits then i must say i have seen LCD monitors with much worse banding than what i have seen in any plasma.

here is the thread where it was posted earlier, always trying to post examples without proper understanding of what is being discussed and pushing nonsense.

http://www.hifivision.com/television/6367-new-panasonic-viera-p50v10-launched-india-2.html
If i am not mistaken the images you have uploaded refer to the pictures on AVS forum by a guy called sharpbandaid.
The first image he says depicts a blu ray source. But I thought the images were created for illustration. Isn't dithering an inherent feature of plasmas primarily used to make up for some colours that plasmas can't display accurately, for example green? Lack of dithering in plasmas might sometimes lead to banding. He says the second image is dithered which means dithering has been introduced and the third image actually has no dithering because of which we see banding. Dithering is however already present in plasmas. So it looks like these are images he created.
Now banding is a bigger issue with LCDs than plasmas

The thread where it all started.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1083055/video-noise-panasonic-plasma-vs-samsung-lcd

I made image series to demonstrate dithering.

First picture is the original 8bit/channel image from Blu-ray, an lcd would be able to show this picture without additional grain or noise.

Second one is dithered image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice the added grain and noise. When watching from close, noise is easy to see.

Third one is image with bit depth reduced to 4bit/channel. Notice color banding.

The posted the original image says without dithering plasma's will exhibit color banding and that is his explanation of the image on the right.




That's the problem. I didn't like LCD either. I'll prefer it over 64e8000 (with its flickering) any day but its still not something I'd consider as a satisfying experience worth the money. Even my 55" projection tv of yesteryear's is miles better than either (except its freakin huge and SD only and the lamp is all but dead since last year). With a new lamp and HD capabilities, it would certainly be better than any plasma or led.

I recommend you read that AVS link i posted here to understand if what you are facing is dithering, also it would be great if you post pics so we all can see whats wrong with your television, there is no way E8000 can be worse than an old 55" projection television because if that's true i think your plasma has a big problem, in my experience i have never ever seen a decent rear projection tv in my life, i always preferred normal CRT's over them any day and now i like plasma.

Also dithering should be visible from normal viewing distance that much so if you are seeing this from 10 feet then i am sensing faulty panel or some issue with your plasma. In fact 2012 Samsung plasma's have been really criticized for adding too much noise reduction reviewers said the images looked too less gaining almost like LCD and they even recommend that to obtain the original film grain effect should calibrate the tv in game mode which is the only setting where noise reduction can be turned off, if this all were true then you plasma must have some problem.
 
Last edited:
I actually snapped some pics but they don't seem to help explain what I'm seeing. Have shot a couple of vids using my ipad which should give you guys some idea. Will see if I can find a way to upload these some place using the ipad (don't have a PC). Don't want to post them on YouTube as that would add more compression and will make it even more difficult to see what I'm seeing.

And yes, using the game mode did help a bit but not by much.
 
Here's a couple of vids which should help you see what I'm seeing. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6zqaumofck6lzp/9Cyppy7UEP

Try and zoom in the videos and you'll see the flickering I'm talking about. I had to shoot the videos from real close to get a good video but I can see the same amount of flickering from over 4 feet. Only at 8 or so feet it stops being obvious and is there only if I look for it.

Lemme know if this is normal.
 
Calibrate your set.

Reduce the brightness and adjust the green color control (gain, brightness, etc).
Most of it should go away.

I faced similar issue with LG. Unfortunately LG did not have advanced controls. So I had the engineers adjust the settings from service menu. Samsung adjustment should be far easy. Also remember that you are watching a 64". Most of the FMs here have 50" or less; sizes at which the dithering is less obvious from similar distance.

Hope this helps.
 
Here's a couple of vids which should help you see what I'm seeing. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d6zqaumofck6lzp/9Cyppy7UEP

Lemme know if this is normal.

Looks normal and because it is 64" it is more apparent from a longer distance, could also post a video with same amount of zoom with screen fully blank and the tv is turned on?

Also calibrate the tv using settings from that AVS link i posted,there are also a lot of discussion and suggestion in that thread,according to all of the reviewers the 64" version of E8000 is one the best plasma produced in 2012 along with VT50 so i think they would not rank it that high with a lot of issues and mediocre pic quality.
 
I actually snapped some pics but they don't seem to help explain what I'm seeing. Have shot a couple of vids using my ipad which should give you guys some idea. Will see if I can find a way to upload these some place using the ipad (don't have a PC). Don't want to post them on YouTube as that would add more compression and will make it even more difficult to see what I'm seeing.

And yes, using the game mode did help a bit but not by much.
I have not looked at the video posted. But if I remember from the days when I was shopping, I had looked at 65VT30. I do not remember seeing large dancing dots/pixels or snowy picture from a distance of 8/9 feet. I feel that the following problems may exist:

- bad reception/signal (what is the source?)
- STB or BDP may be bad
- bad motherboard

It is unlikely that the panel itself is bad. I don't think that callibration is the answer. Callibration is to improve picture quality - contrast, brightness, tone, sharpness, colour saturation, etc. Even without callibration, with the TV out of the box, you should not see dancing pixels from 2 feet onwards and further.

Why don't you look around in shops at other (plasma) TVs of similar size? Also, have a Samsung engineer look at the TV.
 
Already tried reducing the brightness and calibrate the TV with game mode ON as best as I could. Will look more into that thread too. These videos aren't a great example of what I'm seeing but believe me, its worse than you are seeing in the videos. The second video (with a solid grey color showing) is more of an accurate impression of what I'm seeing from even 4+ feet away. Had to put the ipad real close only coz all the other videos I shot from 4 feet away weren't able to capture the flickering (coz of iPads camera limitation). That grey screen is from a pattern in TV settings. It's supposed to be a solid color. So why is it that I'm seeing so much noise here?

If you can zoom in the first video (white background with "pattern" written in black color), you'll see all three sub pixels (red blue and green). Red and green there are as solid as I can see on the LEDs but the blue is flickering all over the screen. Just don't get what's going on here.

Also noticed another thing. The screen door effect on this plasma is really really bad. If I'm standing any closer than 8feet and move my head to the least bit, I can see all sorts of vertical/horizontal/circular effects all over the screen. See this pic[/quote] to get an idea of what I'm talking about. It's visible in the white stripes at the top right in the pic. But that's just the pic. In real life, I am seeing that effect all over the screen and across all color bands, not just white/light colors.

That coupled with the flickering makes this the worst ever TV I've seen up close. If I didn't have a projector displaying the same source on a 133" screen, I'd have thought its coz of the fact that pixels are big on the 65" size and not the fault of TV or its technology. I tried my projector again last night. Image on the PJ+Screen, no matter how close I'm standing) has zero flickering issue and there's no such screen door artifacts visible even though I can make out individual pixels from as far as 6+ feet away.
 
The Marantz PM7000N offers big, spacious and insightful sound, class-leading clarity and a solid streaming platform in a award winning package.
Back
Top