Something to compete with the Essence XT

Luxman 507z Integrated Amplifier
Thanks Rem - I have been reading up on the Peter Daniel as well as the Scott Nixon DACs quite a bit today. Very interesting and very tempting.

Magma - I dont see the TDA chip on sale at Peter Daniel's website. I only see an LMA series chip amp. Are these the same? Please help.
 
thevortex said:
Thanks Rem - I have been reading up on the Peter Daniel as well as the Scott Nixon DACs quite a bit today. Very interesting and very tempting.

Magma - I dont see the TDA chip on sale at Peter Daniel's website. I only see an LMA series chip amp. Are these the same? Please help.
Click to expand...

thats exactly what ive been telling you
the DAC is completely hush hush
he wants us to buy the audiosector/zone compled dac which is 1000$
you will find the DIY link only if you contact him

the audiosector dac is availble
you have to contact sales staff and then theyll email you with the pics and price 1000$!

for the DIY kit you have to talk to peter directly
though now he is quite busy and he has his partners to do that kind of thing

let me dig out an email that he sent me
ill forward it to you
PM me your email address

Edit : vortes ive been through exactly what youre going through right now
you need to decide what you consider VFM a 8000buck STX or a 15k dac
the dac is better but you have to decide are you willing to pay that extra for "better"

if you go the dac way the PD dac is the bestfor the money
if not the Xonar is no slouch

im just telling you cause i went through all this back and forth for months and then i decided that i dont critically listen to musicso much that i want to spend 15k on an htpc and another 15k for the dac
hence ive decided to look at SC
please see what willrock your boat otherwise you will do the entire excersie and then youll have just wasted time

ummwellactaully go ahead and do the excersise - its fun! hehe
 
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here are some sub 300$ dacs for your consideration

Model Price Type / Chip Inputs Outputs Other

PICO 300$ (usb only dac)

scott nixon Chibbi

valab basic model - 200$ wih shipping

valab luxry model 260$ with shipping

or keces 151 mk2 - 250$ + 50 $ shipping though!-buy 2nd hand

zero dac

audio gd compass


Cambridge Audio DacMagic
$399
US
USB, Coax, Optical
RCA/XLR

KECES 151 USB DAC
$225
US/Burr Brown PCM 2702 ME49710 OP-Amp
USB
RCA (No Headphone)

Musical Fidelity V-DAC
$300 US
USB, Coax, Optical
RCA (No headphone)
Some reviews prefer DacMagic

Musiland MD 10 USB DAC
$300 US/CS4398
USB, Coax, Optical, BNC
RCA, Headphone

Styleaudio Carat HD1-V
L130
US/Burr Brown PCM2704
USB Optical
RCA /Headphone
Headphone output weak

Yulong DAH 1 USB DAC
$280 US/AD1955 SPDIF, Coaxial, USB, analog input (RCA)
RCA / Headphone
Remote Control / Superior headphone amp

Giga Lab Moon DAC
$185
NOS 1543
USB, Coax, Optical
RCA (No headphone)

Vintage Audio Lab DAC
$180 NOS TDA 1543
USB / RCA /Coax/optical
RCA (No headphone)


all the best.

the better ones are the
MF - Vdac ( actaully i think this dac is super for your setup) - its also cheaper at 150 pounds sterling
the Valab
the PICO
the audiogd compass
and ofcourse the keces

the PD dac should top all of the above though
however the above dacs may be chaper andoffer more VFM
morever the above dacs are completed dacs NOT kits!
 
magma said:
thats exactly what ive been telling you
the DAC is completely hush hush
he wants us to buy the audiosector/zone compled dac which is 1000$
you will find the DIY link only if you contact him

the audiosector dac is availble
you have to contact sales staff and then theyll email you with the pics and price 1000$!

for the DIY kit you have to talk to peter directly
though now he is quite busy and he has his partners to do that kind of thing

let me dig out an email that he sent me
ill forward it to you
PM me your email address

Edit : vortes ive been through exactly what youre going through right now
you need to decide what you consider VFM a 8000buck STX or a 15k dac
the dac is better but you have to decide are you willing to pay that extra for "better"

if you go the dac way the PD dac is the bestfor the money
if not the Xonar is no slouch

im just telling you cause i went through all this back and forth for months and then i decided that i dont critically listen to musicso much that i want to spend 15k on an htpc and another 15k for the dac
hence ive decided to look at SC
please see what willrock your boat otherwise you will do the entire excersie and then youll have just wasted time

ummwellactaully go ahead and do the excersise - its fun! hehe
Click to expand...

Hey Magma,

There is no way I am letting go of this exercise! Whether I buy or not, as I have said before, it is the mucking around which is so much fun. Ultimately though it is rare that I dont buy after all the mucking.

I have sent you a PM with my email address. Please check.
 
The Scott Nixon tube DACs are indeed fascinating. But maybe I am making too much out of tubes as whole:). I actually think a conventional DAC with a tube amplifier may be the way to go. Lets see.
 
Last edited:
Vortex, in case you get a positive response from Peter Daniel, please order for two boards, and all parts. I will take one DAC happily.

Cheers
 
grubyhalo said:
Oops! I was scouring Audiocircle! Thanks for the link...

P.S: It looks like one could email him direct for the PCB's...
Click to expand...

Yes I noticed that. I just wanted to check with Magma to see if his email has changed - because this post is quite old.

venkatcr said:
Vortex, in case you get a positive response from Peter Daniel, please order for two boards, and all parts. I will take one DAC happily.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Certainly Venkat.
 
If you want the hot rodded PD Dac for a lot less than 1000$ + shipping, your best bet would be to contact Odyssey. I'm not sure how much it costs now after the dollar rise but expect around 40k'ish. Its my primary source and its in a different league in comparison to the Essence as far as refinement and naturalness of tones is concerned. The sound is a lot more open and the tonality is utterly natural especially in the mid range. The essence being a delta sigma PCM1792A based device is edgy compared to the NOS TDA1543 but has slightly more detail. The implementation, build quality, parts selection and attention to detail that exists in the PD DAC is something that is obviously missing in the mass market Essence. Every single cap on the DAC is either a Black Gate or a Black Gate NX. The device is crammed with exotics. However in terms of the price difference, the Essence is definitely not 5X inferior compared to the DAC.

You can very well live with the Essence and believe its the best you'd get if you never do a side by side comparison of the two sources. However I must warn you that the PD DAC definitely has its drawbacks. The primary one is that if you are a sucker for that list bit of treble micro-detail, this DAC will not rock your boat - you are better off with an oversampling DAC. However one has to use ugly SRC to 192kHz to get the best out of the Essence. With the PD DAC, you can straightaway feed 44.1kHz. No resampling, no mangling. The only damage to the signal is the jitter that your computer passes to the DAC.
 
Last edited:
Folks
just a few points here - the PD DAC that ROC is talking about is not for everyone. It is especially not for people who are looking for "hi-fi" sound with "exaggerated" high freq extension. This is a minimalist design with no op-amps, no digital filters and as such the output is designed to give you the least colored and purest sound. The output Z on this DAC is high - which may or may not be a problem depending on your partnering equipment. The output level is also a bit on the lower side. The emphasis is on analogish sound, not the sound that say an Esoteric would give. Unlike a lot of the chinese DACs that have a pre/volume control, this DAC has none of those - not even a power switch :eek:hyeah:
As ROC says, Peters work is in a different league, his attention to detail, the choice of components, synergy, etc He deserves far more credit/recognition than is given to him.

cheers
[email protected]
 
vortex
his email is still the same as that link
actually thats the link i was gonna send you along with my attatched correspondance

now that you have the link you can mail him directly

i think the cost is 280$ (premium kit with gold board) + 20 for the transformer and another 30 for the Cardus dual RCA + 15$ shipping to the CONUS from canada
 
I too have exchanged a couple of emails with Peter. He is prompt,and I think the dac are affordable. The only issue was - if you want both USB and optical/ coaxial inputs - then you have to buy 2!
I was about to order, but then I came across the lampucera dac CD DAC Lampucera lampizator . The DAC kit used there costed me $99 incl shipping (later realized it should have been $77 - I had already made the purchase and Lawrence has promised some compensation in my next purchase).
I got the dac in 1 week from HK, along with 2 USB to spdif convertors (I got both of them as usb=>optical, I would have preferred one of them to be coax)

The kit is easy to assemble, came with power supply and transformer. I took it to Viren and he was kind to fix it atop a wooden board, solder the rca females and it was ready to rock. We listened to it for a few mins, with optical out from his marantz 5001 cdp, and output (from the opamp) fed to valve amp (I think the one that Mahiruha owns now :licklips: ). Couldn't fault the DAC in that small listening session. It is still with Viren for him to do some listening sessions, and experiment with a tube output stage.
I am anyways not getting much time to listen to my recently acquired nad 542 CDP (purchased from Ramesh hifipal4all, and recommended by Asit). I hope I would be able to compare both soon on my humble system of hk+jbl. May not be of much value as hk+jbl is supposed to be much lo-fi here :(

Edit - if you use a usb-> spdif converter, you won't need 2. But I think (and IIRC, Peter also suggested the same) if your source is primarily a comp, then you should buy USB dac to get the best quality, and spdif conversions.
 
Last edited:
anm said:
I Edit - if you use a usb-> spdif converter, you won't need 2. But I think (and IIRC, Peter also suggested the same) if your source is primarily a comp, then you should buy USB dac to get the best quality, and spdif conversions.
Click to expand...

peter never recommends these conververters
thats the reason why you have to buy 2 boards!

also you need not buy two entire kitsw peter piggy backsone board over another and gives you a disc when you ask for that combo version
works out to about 500$
 
I am very skeptical about NOS DACs. The whole passive I/V and filter-less output is just a huge fail in design philosophy.

Honestly, i do believe you need to check out well implemented DACs that don't use 80s consumer electronics DAC chips.

Sridhar, it is totally untrue what you call exaggerated highs from current generation DACs, specifically R-2R ladder DACs. This thread gives an insight into the whole NOS fiasco.
Its a worthwhile read and it would help to be slightly knowledgeable about electronics.
 
sachi said:
I am very skeptical about NOS DACs. The whole passive I/V and filter-less output is just a huge fail in design philosophy.

Honestly, i do believe you need to check out well implemented DACs that don't use 80s consumer electronics DAC chips.

Sridhar, it is totally untrue what you call exaggerated highs from current generation DACs, specifically R-2R ladder DACs. This thread gives an insight into the whole NOS fiasco.
Its a worthwhile read and it would help to be slightly knowledgeable about electronics.
Click to expand...

Sachi - with all due respect I have gone through that thread and read what Dan Lavry has to say. While I am no match for his sound engineer skills, this is what Peter - the developer of the XXHighEnd player has to say. Regardless of what the measurements say, it cannot be disputed that the NOS implementation provides euphonic sound. Importantly more natural sounding than other implementations.

Why that is so may be as yet unexplained. But what the human ear is hearing may not be disputed. I have experienced the same thing with tube amps which of course do not have the specs that my solid state NAD amp does. Just my 2 rupees:)

More discussion on this can be found in the Computer Audiophile forums as well.
 
anm said:
I too have exchanged a couple of emails with Peter. He is prompt,and I think the dac are affordable. The only issue was - if you want both USB and optical/ coaxial inputs - then you have to buy 2!
I was about to order, but then I came across the lampucera dac CD DAC Lampucera lampizator . The DAC kit used there costed me $99 incl shipping (later realized it should have been $77 - I had already made the purchase and Lawrence has promised some compensation in my next purchase).
I got the dac in 1 week from HK, along with 2 USB to spdif convertors (I got both of them as usb=>optical, I would have preferred one of them to be coax)

The kit is easy to assemble, came with power supply and transformer. I took it to Viren and he was kind to fix it atop a wooden board, solder the rca females and it was ready to rock. We listened to it for a few mins, with optical out from his marantz 5001 cdp, and output (from the opamp) fed to valve amp (I think the one that Mahiruha owns now :licklips: ). Couldn't fault the DAC in that small listening session. It is still with Viren for him to do some listening sessions, and experiment with a tube output stage.
I am anyways not getting much time to listen to my recently acquired nad 542 CDP (purchased from Ramesh hifipal4all, and recommended by Asit). I hope I would be able to compare both soon on my humble system of hk+jbl. May not be of much value as hk+jbl is supposed to be much lo-fi here :(

Edit - if you use a usb-> spdif converter, you won't need 2. But I think (and IIRC, Peter also suggested the same) if your source is primarily a comp, then you should buy USB dac to get the best quality, and spdif conversions.
Click to expand...

Anm - that DAC is now priced at just $69! I cannot tell you how tempting that is:). If only you would be so kind as to listen to it critically and let us know where it stands vis a vis other DACs or CD Players that you have heard, this should seal the deal.

The other concern I have is on whether we would need to get ourselves involved with soldering op amps. In a scenario like mine where there is a PC -> DAC -> INtegrated amp, can the DAC be fitted as bought from ebay? Of course after adding a case.
 
magma said:
vortex
his email is still the same as that link
actually thats the link i was gonna send you along with my attatched correspondance

now that you have the link you can mail him directly

i think the cost is 280$ (premium kit with gold board) + 20 for the transformer and another 30 for the Cardus dual RCA + 15$ shipping to the CONUS from canada
Click to expand...

And all this is for the TDA NOS DAC chip right, Magma?
 
sachi said:
I am very skeptical about NOS DACs. The whole passive I/V and filter-less output is just a huge fail in design philosophy.

Honestly, i do believe you need to check out well implemented DACs that don't use 80s consumer electronics DAC chips.

Sridhar, it is totally untrue what you call exaggerated highs from current generation DACs, specifically R-2R ladder DACs. This thread gives an insight into the whole NOS fiasco.
Its a worthwhile read and it would help to be slightly knowledgeable about electronics.
Click to expand...


Hi
I am not making a generic statement across all current generation DACs. My opinion was limited to some CDPs/DACs I have heard incl some high end ones. I will concede that my inherent taste/bias will also have something to do with it .
Which DACs are you referring to, perhaps you can list a few, if I have access to them, I can listen to them. On the new generation, I have the ESS Sabre DAC which I quite like, however I still like the PD NOS DAC better.

cheers
 
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