Speakers - Reproduced versus Live Sound

[Hari Iyer]

In Western classical music, an orchestra is quite loud enough to be heard with amplification. I guess that's why there are so many of the quiter instruments, eg violin --- although a solo violin can be heard in a concerto!). I guess there is still plenty of unamplified music in the world: just that it is not the music that most people listen to.

Even in my own area of taste and concert attendence, carnatic music, amplification is, sadly the norm. What's more, this is often badly done in venues with bad acoustics. Far worse, it has affected the performers themselves, with many quite unable to project their voice any further than the microphone they sit behind. This is first-year dram school stuff, and yet artists with decades of "experience" cannot sing to people fifty feet away from them. Added to this... their microphone technique is often lousy too!

Copying my original post here again for thought,

http://www.hifivision.com/music/22623-what-should-constitute-make-good-music.html

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I mentioned this on the South Indian Classical Music thread. Might be worth repeating here...

For any Chennai rasikas who might be interested, there is an ongoing series of unamplified chamber concerts. The aim is to put on two concerts each month for one year. Please email [email protected] for details --- but you won't be able to all come at once, as these are mostly held in homes and small venues!

 

[sidvee]

Guys my take on this: I almost exclusively listen to Jazz specifically the 60's work by greats such as Miles Davis, Coltrane, Hubbard, Tina Brooks, Art Blakey etc. A few of these artists have recorded their performances at the Village Vanguard club in Greenwich village NY. Now being a jazz afficianado, a visit to the Vanguard is a must, which I have had the good fortune to do so a few times (in fact I will be there next month to catch a few performances). So mentally I do try to compare my system to what is being played back in this somewhat small and intimate venue, listening to acoustic cues, ambience retrieval etc. Of-course most of the artists that played there are long gone to the great Jazzmaster in the sky!, but I try to place similar instruments of different artists on the stage. I have also sat at different positions in the club to try and understand the impact of listening position relative to performance. All I can say is that after having spent a considerable amount of money on a few iterations of my system (speakers, amps, sources etc), I am sad to report that I am nowhere close to reproducing this club. Yes there are moments in a performance where I may feel that I can relate to the club atmosphere but these are very few and far in between. So my conclusion has been that it is very, very difficult - if not impossible to create the impression that one is listening to live music while listening to playback over a system. There are just too many variables at play, the weakest link of which IMO is the acoustics of the room one is listening to said performance in. So I am now just happy to enjoy listening to good music from my system and am beyond analysing whether it sounds live or not. Another observation that I have made is that it is easier to believe that one is listening to live music if there is a solo instrument or a solo vocal line to follow rather than an ensemble, where in the soundstage, imaging etc. will come into play and the system has to work very hard to make our brain relate these variables to the actual performance. Last but not the least is the dynamics of a live performance is so phenomenal that the system has to be extremly capable to reproduce this, which will require high power amps. or high efficiency speakers (not to mention high quality drivers, design, well treated room etc) and a set of ears to be able to tolerate that as well. Just the humble opinions of a novice.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[prem]

Absolutely agree with you Sidvee. I have over the years not heard any system which even comes close to a live performance. Be it ss, set, push pull, horns, single drivers, open baffles, dynamic speakers, nothing comes close. I have long given up trying to get something to sound live. I just try to get a sound that is pleasing to my ears.

 

[nshankar]

^ +1 to that.

The bottomline is to get sound that is pleasing to one's ears.

 

[himadri]

I have over the years not heard any system which even comes close to a live performance. Be it ss, set, push pull, horns, single drivers, open baffles, dynamic speakers, nothing comes close. I have long given up trying to get something to sound live. I just try to get a sound that is pleasing to my ears.

Spot on Prem.
My exposure to live unamplified music of high quality have been limited to a few sittings of classical/light music virtuosos which no hi-fi system has been able to come close to replicating in home audio systems.
Even amplified concerts like the Allan Holdsworth concert I attended in St Andrews Auditorium in Mumbai last year was far more dynamic/realistic that listening to his cds in my home system.

Which comes down to - Is hi-fi about tailoring music to our tastes rather than trying to replicate reality as this seems to be a distant possibility?
Thats probably what my friend was telling me the other day that I was listening more to systems than music.

Cheers

 

[moktan]

there is something that i don't get. does the sound that one gets to hear in a live performance depend on where one is seated or not?

 

[sidvee]

there is something that i don't get. does the sound that one gets to hear in a live performance depend on where one is seated or not?

In my experience yes, different seats will have different acoustics. Also the listeners seated closer to the stage whether amplified or uplugged will hear at a higher SPL and thus the oft. repeated reviewer cliche - front of the hall sound or rear of the hall sound, which in itself leads the listener to perceive the music differently.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[msagar]

Now being a jazz afficianado, a visit to the Vanguard is a must, which I have had the good fortune to do so a few times (in fact I will be there next month to catch a few performances).

Sidvee,

When I was living in NYC I enjoyed going to Village Vanguard, Birdland and Bluenote. I miss them. Enjoy live performances during your stay in NYC.