Stereophile 2014 Recommended Components

[Rajiv]

Hi,

I could be waay wrong (Rajiv?) but I think I heard the KEF's connected up to Rajiv's vintage Quad amp. I don't suppose there were very many watts there.

Thad, you are not wrong. your memory is very good.

Not many watts, and the Kef's easily filled the room,and sounded very good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lYt7R5Yc4E&feature=youtu.be

Regards
Rajiv

 

[vijwilso]

I could see naseer in that , and now I could locate Thad also .. It is indeed a small circle of audiophile

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Left-over Audiophiles!

It was the end of the day; there had been many more of us present at the excellent get-together. And a lot more equipment

 

[Kushanava]

I could be waay wrong (Rajiv?) but I think I heard the KEF's connected up to Rajiv's vintage Quad amp. I don't suppose there were very many watts there.

Anyway, in another thread, Capt Rajesh points out that I mis-remembered what we did last week ...and the meet was a whole year ago.

@Thad. Even with sugden the kef played loudly at 9 0clk. But I was not sure if it would be able to fill my 24*11 sqft room.I am not willing to drive sugden out of his sweet spot..

 

[arj]

@Thad. Even with sugden the kef played loudly at 9 0clk. But I was not sure if it would be able to fill my 24*11 sqft room.I am not willing to drive sugden out of his sweet spot..

the Sugden is a Pure Class A hence it will draw it full capability of power all the time and what it cannot use to drive the speaker it will dissipate as heat. and if the speaker asks for more, it simply will not give it.
Since for MOST speaker the 25-33 watts is more than enough i doubt you will get it out of its sweet spot

It is a Fantastic Amp.

 

[gobble]

Maybe these speakers require more current driven amp to shine than a typical voltage driven tube amp is able to hand out?

G0bble

 

[Kushanava]

the Sugden is a Pure Class A hence it will draw it full capability of power all the time and what it cannot use to drive the speaker it will dissipate as heat. and if the speaker asks for more, it simply will not give it.
Since for MOST speaker the 25-33 watts is more than enough i doubt you will get it out of its sweet spot

It is a Fantastic Amp.

Thanks arj.The recommend pairing or rather successful pairing with sugden are speakers with ?95 db sensitivity. .so I was skeptical with a 85 db sensitive speakers.But I think you are correct.

 

[arj]

Thanks arj.The recommend pairing or rather successful pairing with sugden are speakers with ?95 db sensitivity. .so I was skeptical with a 85 db sensitive speakers.But I think you are correct.

Actually they run 85 db spenders beautifully. The sensitivity is just one measure . The efficiency of the drivers and the impedance also matters. The issue with the sugdens id when the impedance reduces so does the power delivery. So at 4 ohms it will still put out 15 to 20 watts but drastically drops below that and would be unable to drive.

I used to run these with 87 db 4 ohms speakers and that was one of the most synergistic setups ..highly musical and no problem of power

 

[Kushanava]

Actually they run 85 db spenders beautifully. The sensitivity is just one measure . The efficiency of the drivers and the impedance also matters. The issue with the sun Dennis when the impedance reduces so does the power delivery. So at 4 ohms it will still put out 15 to 20 watts but drastically drops below that and would be unable to drive.

I used to run these with 87 db 4 ohms speakers and that was one of the most synergistic setups ..highly musical and no problem of power

Great to hear!! Did u get a chance to hear the SE version of the amp??
If you have heard any other combination s with sugden..pls suggest.i am planning to audition the rethms with this amp later in the year.

 

[arj]

Great to hear!! Did u get a chance to hear the SE version of the amp??

If you have heard any other combination s with sugden..pls suggest.i am planning to audition the rethms with this amp later in the year.

I would not suggest Rethms with them. rethms need only 3 watts or below so not a great match up try it out anyway.

Your best bet is with the 85 +db easy to drive speakers preferably the British/French/German ones.
Way back the jm labs were fantastic with them. So would the harbeth, proac or living voice.
The b&w needed more power.

 

[prem]

Hi Arj

Only the Saadhanas will work with 3 watts. The Maargas and Trishnas will need more power. Probably in the range of 8 to 10 watts. The Sugden might work well with the Trishnas

 

[arj]

Thanks prem did not know that. Although still with this almost 20w ( ie almost 200w of electrical power) is going to be dissipated as heat..so it is going to be one hot amp !

 

[prem]

Hi arj

My apologies. The Marrga is likely to work with 3 watts. I thought the sensitivity of Trishna was 95db and the Maarga was 97db. But they are 97db and 99db.

 

[Kushanava]

Hi arj

My apologies. The Marrga is likely to work with 3 watts. I thought the sensitivity of Trishna was 95db and the Maarga was 97db. But they are 97db and 99db.

Thanks Arj & Prem for your valuable inputs.

Inline with Arj's suggestion and looking at their own inventory of speakers a stable 8 ohm 87 Db load seems to be ideal. Here is a link of their latest full-range book shelves ------

Sugden Mystro Mini Monitor

On the other side , in support Prem's recommendation of the Trishna's , here is an extract from DaGago

"Note AN-E SPE/HE speakers I reviewed previously, which at 98dB sensitivity, have proved a marriage made in Heaven for the A21SE."

My question is , if we drive a 100 Db speaker with a Class A 30W amp and most of the energy is converted to heat, can it still have a good sonic match ...
With all the reviews and blogs I have read the rethms seem to tick all the sonic attributes I like and that's why I am inclined towards it .Listening may even draw me away from them , but till now they are the in the top of my list and I badly want my sugden to gel with them.I may eventually move to a tube after 3 years but at the same time , don't want to live in a fools paradise with the Rethm and the Sugden pairing!!!

I got some taste of the terms "Transparent" and "Presence" after hearing the Kef Ls50 , so all the more eager now.

 

[arj]

Thanks Arj & Prem for your valuable inputs.

Inline with Arj's suggestion and looking at their own inventory of speakers a stable 8 ohm 87 Db load seems to be ideal. Here is a link of their latest full-range book shelves ------

Sugden Mystro Mini Monitor

On the other side , in support Prem's recommendation of the Trishna's , here is an extract from DaGago

"Note AN-E SPE/HE speakers I reviewed previously, which at 98dB sensitivity, have proved a marriage made in Heaven for the A21SE."

My question is , if we drive a 100 Db speaker with a Class A 30W amp and most of the energy is converted to heat, can it still have a good sonic match ...
With all the reviews and blogs I have read the Rethms seem to tick all the sonic attributes I like and that's why I am inclined towards it .Listening may even draw me away from them , but till now they are the in the top of my list and I badly want my sugden to gel with them.I may eventually move to a tube after 3 years but at the same time , don't want to live in a fools paradise with the Rethm and the Sugden pairing!!!

I got some taste of the terms "Transparent" and "Presence" after hearing the Kef Ls50 , so all the more eager now.

You must try it out with the Rethms. real life can work very different to expectations . The Sugden in many ways is a SET based on Solid state. I have never put it with such a sensitive speaker as the Rethms so really do not know but be prepared to go Either way. The SE is a lot more powerful than the A21al I had .

The ANE is not as Efficient as the Rethms and need more power as the Rethms have their own powered Bass Module which makes of the Amp very easy. so do not go by that.The only Issue with Audio note speaker are their Pricing

Please do hear this with a Proac once. it is supposed to be a magical pairing. Another Speaker is Living Voice. there is a Forum member - mekr who has one in Mumbai. I am not sure if he is planning to let go of his, but he can guide you around its sound. I have heard it (not with an SET) but it has a fantastic midrange


If it helps, the speakers I had considered for the Sugden before i got a Merlin are below..this was more than 6 years ago and my budget was limited to USD 3000 all inclusive

Green mountain Audio (There is a pair for sale here in BLR). works great with SS Class A having heard it with a Threshold Amp
REference mm 3a De capo
JM Lab Trente (not made anymore..i had its younger bro for quite some time)
Triangle - forgot the name of the bookshelf
JM Lab Electra
harbeth c7
Proac Response


Another option is the Cadence..Capt has one out for sale. I have never heard it together but for the price, might be worth a trip to travel and hear.

 

[vijwilso]

Another option is the Cadence..Capt has one out for sale. I have never heard it together but for the price, might be worth a trip to travel and hear.

I listened to Candence in Capt residence day before yesterday . Fantastic mids .. I could have got one for myself if the room size is not the limiting factor

 

[denom]

Let us also bear in mind that The Rethm's, atleast the Saadhanas are NOT plug & play type of speakers!!! They need a lot of patience to set them up in such a way that then they can truly perform to their optimum levels & showcase what they are capable of.

Most FM"s have heard Prem's set up thinking aah the Rethms are the stars, but do not realise the intense amount of work he has done to achieve what they do in his set-up.
His entire chain/room is constantly optimised to make the magic happen.

I for one would only recommend Rethm's(saadhana's atleast since they are the only Rethms I've heard) to people who have immense amount of patience & willingness to play around with them, whether partnering electronics or treating the room, else the rest will just pull their hair out in frustration & say to hell with it, I need to flog them ASAP!

They are NOT for everyone, thats for sure

 

[Hari Iyer]

Let us also bear in mind that The Rethm's, atleast the Saadhanas are NOT plug & play type of speakers!!! They need a lot of patience to set them up in such a way that then they can truly perform to their optimum levels & showcase what they are capable of.

Most FM"s have heard Prem's set up thinking aah the Rethms are the stars, but do not realise the intense amount of work he has done to achieve what they do in his set-up.
His entire chain/room is constantly optimised to make the magic happen.

I for one would only recommend Rethm's(saadhana's atleast since they are the only Rethms I've heard) to people who have immense amount of patience & willingness to play around with them, whether partnering electronics or treating the room, else the rest will just pull their hair out in frustration & say to hell with it, I need to flog them ASAP!

They are NOT for everyone, thats for sure

That puts one more question in my mind after 2 months of tweaking my Krypton Agni TL FS speakers which i finally concluded yesterday for the better. Are speakers designs need to be customized to your electronics and room? If my experience proves me correct then IMHO its 'Yes'.

Do not expect to buy a high-end stuff - Source, Amp, speakers and do a plug & play and expect it to sound 'WoW'. If you are lucky enough the synergy may gel well for you else you have to spend tweaking some (amp, speakers, room) components to suit you. In this audio chain, i believe the speakers are the weakest link. My change from Sony Amp to Dared Tubes did not do much to add 'WoW' to the sound stage. I always suspected the Amp but the problem lied in the 'Room' and the 'Speakers Integration' with the room. After countless simulations, measurement, iterations and tweaking i finally could succeed in getting the synergy i wanted from the speakers. I went to the extend of even changing the drivers and replaced both the woofer and tweeter and tweaked the crossover a million times but finally the reward was there to be seen.

I hope this synergy will be with me for quite a while, untill i move to active crossovers in the near future which is currently in the design stage. FM are welcomed for a listen.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Hari, would you not begin by tweaking the room to the speakers?

 

[Kushanava]

Let us also bear in mind that The Rethm's, atleast the Saadhanas are NOT plug & play type of speakers!!! They need a lot of patience to set them up in such a way that then they can truly perform to their optimum levels & showcase what they are capable of.

Most FM"s have heard Prem's set up thinking aah the Rethms are the stars, but do not realise the intense amount of work he has done to achieve what they do in his set-up.
His entire chain/room is constantly optimised to make the magic happen.

I for one would only recommend Rethm's(saadhana's atleast since they are the only Rethms I've heard) to people who have immense amount of patience & willingness to play around with them, whether partnering electronics or treating the room, else the rest will just pull their hair out in frustration & say to hell with it, I need to flog them ASAP!

They are NOT for everyone, thats for sure

When you say "Thats not for everyone" .. are you talking about the "patience factor" or the "sonic characteristics" ?Did you find any one not-liking a well setup Rethm ?

Most of the great speakers are never plug and play and you have to keep on playing with the synergy of the components because they are usually responsive to an upgraded front end ..But when you have heard the full capability of a speaker in an ACE setup[within a budget].. you are always motivated , knowing that ,what you are aiming for, can be achieved through patience rather than hunting for an easy to setup system with a sonic compromise.

In my case I want to fix the speakers long term ..(at least 15 years) and I don't mind slowly reaching the pinnacle of sonic bliss from there on.But at the same time it is important to get a good start!I don't want to start with a system that has components that don't support each other.Then it becomes impossible to justify the buy. At the first go I am expecting to achieve the 65% of the speakers capability and the rest 35% will come through upgrades.