stratospheric rarification of audiophilia

Fret not my dear audio friends,
desire to acquiring has no end.

whats little HiFi Knick-Knacks ?
requiring long chits and chats !

We are all mad HiFi devotees.
more stuff will come, so be at ease.

Now may I make you all aware,
a different subject but I adjure.

anyone aspires a SET tube amp ?
THIS DIY is called cute little champ.

PM me and I will give build clues.
Most is new and there is no queue. :(

Regards.
 
Though I am not so much mature to comment on the sale/buying process on this forum, with my experience of involving in Govt procurement as an advisor/consultant to Government since last 3 decades in procurement activities, I just like to mention that, we have(both in Government and Corporate) 3 major types of approaches, when we move some procurement/sale activities based on the nature of requirement and other variables.
1) Expression of Interest
2) Request for proposal
3) Tender/Bid

Though all the three look similar from a layman's point, bifurcation of buy/sell activities under these titles and the specific terms and conditions involved under each, play vital role when the transactions subjected for scrutiny of Court/Law/Arbitration.
Any how, I am not intended to open a debate on the Government/corporate buying/selling activities in this forum or to follow that. Also, they may not fit here due to presence of non-commercial elements like individual sentiments and rarity/difficulty in getting it). Just wanted to share some information that, there are well established methods to draw clear lines about how the buying/selling activities can be carried keeping both the parties in similar situations on a common platform.
Isn't there a MOU - Memorandum of Understanding step as well? I think it comes after 1). All our state government heads go for foreign tours, sign MOU's for a few billion dollars with big photo OPS, make huge press statements, and in a few years nothing really happens and nobody is held liable.
Anyways I think to do it the right way on this forum these steps need to be followed:
1. Invite EOI - Expression of Interest.
2. Sign MOU
3. Sign Letter of intent
4. Request for proposal
5. Sealed tender/bid.
6. Opening of tender/bid.
7. Awarding of contract - or sale of equipment (in this case) to L1 for buyer and L100000000000 for seller.
(And fingers crossed - hopefully no future audit will find any corruption is involved in all of this).
Apologies to all for the sarcasm, but for an used audio equipment sale site, I think everything is being blown out of proportion. You reply to a for sale ad., if equipment is available and seller likes your offered/negotiated price (because nothing works without bargaining) and all agree to terms, deal is done. If not so be it, move on, both buyer and seller, simple no?
Cheers,
Sid
 
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guys and gals,
I just checked Reuben's sale thread. It is perfect example 'for sale' thread. Very well organised with clear pictures, details and updates. what could one ask for? Things happen because of miscommunication and unintentional misunderstandings.

On lost chances I always remember Rafi song..
"Jo mil gaya usi ko muqqdar samaz liya,
Jo kho gaya mein usko bhula ta chala gaya'

Lets hope msaab90 gets what he wants in near future.
Regards
 
Honestly I take " you are in queue" as a challenge. My very first smartphone was sort of pulled out from the first guy in line in another forum because

1. While the seller was being a gentleman and trying to honour fcfs, the seller was adding hoops to the transaction - like asking the seller to list it in eBay India (yes this was a while back... 2010) because he wanted to use some coupons

2. I had a solid buyer feedback and offered the seller 1k over his listed price (which he again declined) and instant payment via the means of his choice.

Selling is a stressful and risky activity, without high expectation buyers making it harder. Hard enough that I don't sell any of my stuff online to strangers. Only to known folks.Sometimes if you are extra nice and helpful, you can win the deal despite the disadvantage
 
To conclude, I generally concur with msaab90. This was a rare and expensive piece of equipment that deserved to go to a genuine buyer via a clean sale. Holding it for someone who has not even decided to buy it, and keep 5 other forum member "in Line" is inappropriate.
I agree. I'm writing this through personal experience of being in the queue. I was willing to pay on the spot, no questions asked. I was quite interested and eager to get a response.

The frustration began when the update mentioned that someone ahead of the queue is sitting on the fence, undecided and needed a day or two. As my friend said, there are people who place a name just to reserve a spot; "shoot first, think later". It is unfair for serious buyers. Those should be placed at the end of the queue while they make up the mind. I don't believe this is fault of the seller. At best, the person should be given max. three hours to decide; not a day or two. There is something wrong with FCFS formula in the strictest sense.

Secondly, the seller could have been more responsive. The communication could also include the details about where one stands in the queue. The buyer can decide to dropout or at least realise that chances are less. As someone mentioned, having a clear 'On Hold' status could help.

I understand and empathise with the OP, but I feel the post could have been less emotional and more thoughtful. I appreciate the grace with which the seller has taken the feedback. This is a much sought after piece of equipment and no matter what there could be only one buyer who takes it home; leaving others disappointed. This can fuel emotions and ruffle some feathers. I feel the seller has tried his best with his constraints, the situation.
 
I agree. I'm writing this through personal experience of being in the queue. I was willing to pay on the spot, no questions asked. I was quite interested and eager to get a response.

The frustration began when the update mentioned that someone ahead of the queue is sitting on the fence, undecided and needed a day or two. As my friend said, there are people who place a name just to reserve a spot; "shoot first, think later". It is unfair for serious buyers. Those should be placed at the end of the queue while they make up the mind. I don't believe this is fault of the seller. At best, the person should be given max. three hours to decide; not a day or two. There is something wrong with FCFS formula in the strictest sense.

Secondly, the seller could have been more responsive. The communication could also include the details about where one stands in the queue. The buyer can decide to dropout or at least realise that chances are less. As someone mentioned, having a clear 'On Hold' status could help.

I understand and empathise with the OP, but I feel the post could have been less emotional and more thoughtful. I appreciate the grace with which the seller has taken the feedback. This is a much sought after piece of equipment and no matter what there could be only one buyer who takes it home; leaving others disappointed. This can fuel emotions and ruffle some feathers. I feel the seller has tried his best with his constraints, the situation.
I really appreciate your balanced view of the discussion. I humbly accept criticism regarding my possibly crude treatment of the episode.
You and many other FM's have consoled me for losing out on the equipment. But I do submit that my post was published before the sale concluded while I was still in queue for purchase.
So my outburst should not be interpreted as somebody being vengeful for missing out on the acquisition.
My intent was to inform the community about the potential subjective flaws in the sale process that caused my discontentment. I agree hat the initial sales post was throughly informative.

Indeed seller is more gracious than me and many others similar to me commenting, and going overboard with their expressions. I thank him profusely for his erudite participation in this ungainly discussion.
I do hope we can close our commentating on this topic for now as the ambiguities are proving tough to overcome despite thorough brainstorming (Govt. purchase processes/bids etc. !!!). I thank FM'S for their extremely generous wishes for my audio fulfillment
Guys you have been most gracious.
Goodnight.
 
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Isn't there a MOU - Memorandum of Understanding step as well? I think it comes after 1). All our state government heads go for foreign tours, sign MOU's for a few billion dollars with big photo OPS, make huge press statements, and in a few years nothing really happens and nobody is held liable.
Anyways I think to do it the right way on this forum these steps need to be followed:
1. Invite EOI - Expression of Interest.
2. Sign MOU
3. Sign Letter of intent
4. Request for proposal
5. Sealed tender/bid.
6. Opening of tender/bid.
7. Awarding of contract - or sale of equipment (in this case) to L1 for buyer and L100000000000 for seller.
(And fingers crossed - hopefully no future audit will find any corruption is involved in all of this).
Apologies to all for the sarcasm, but for an used audio equipment sale site, I think everything is being blown out of proportion. You reply to a for sale ad., if equipment is available and seller likes your offered/negotiated price (because nothing works without bargaining) and all agree to terms, deal is done. If not so be it, move on, both buyer and seller, simple no?
Cheers,
Sid
MOU comes normally at the end of the purchase process when both the parties agrees to enter into contract agreement(it may or may not be a contract agreement itself), beginning of the implementation of agreed things. Any how, I am very clear in my post and as an example given only 3 major process, which might be more relevant and basic. Also stated that, I don't want to invite a debate on the process of transactions in pure commercial world, as most of those does not apply here. Still if FMs expects to discuss on those, I can share another hundred of such legal terms and document formats, and order of execution, but what is the purpose? So, no need to waste of our time in discussing so many terminologies here as we have very little understanding on those.
But, my intention is, there are few more terms which can be used here other than only 3 categories we have under 'Classifieds'. We need to make it more simple, straight forward and suitable for this forum.
This forum is for Audio/Video enthusiasists to share knowledge and experience, than a buying/selling platform. Some FMs may have a feel that, they have acquired some prized and rare possessions with lot of hard ship and want to let it go to a person who loves it and who takes care of such things, rather than who have immediate money to dispose. So, we have a gap there now and that is the route cause of this thread. To begin with, one more category can be introduced 'expression of interests invited' or some thing similar to that, where the seller can post his valuables and give a time line and collect more information from the prospective buyers, and close at the end with some per-defined short listing process. The seller may also fix some earnest payment (non-refundable?) to be the part.
As a last line........ Now a days we have a proper system even for a hundred bucks transactions, like seat reservation in transport, entertainments etc., which doesn't allow somebody to put handkerchief and reserve, without knowing wether he want to be a part or not. So, it is not a question of big or small, the process should not cause humiliation to some one who actually deserves with proper entry (Nevertheless, the proper way of entry should be defined by the Vendor, if he allows handkerchief reservation, that is also fine, it is his privilege). But never be labelled under one's 'Faith' or 'Karma'. When the seller concludes 'the gear passed on to deserved buyer', other people in Que should know, how that 'deserve'ness is evolved.
 
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Well looks like our "For Sale" section will soon turn into a full fledged e-procurement portal bound by the terms and conditions therein. Obviously for any e-procurement platform to function as intended we need to have the same certified by the STQC and follow all CVC guidelines. Further, subletting these services may open a stream of revenue for the forum. :) :) :)
 
You are definitely entitled to your opinion, as am I. Kindly provide a studied rebuke.
I personally think you are taking a very strict approach to the sale process on the forum. Depending upon folk's availability of time and of course their subjective interpretation of the rules, some slack needs to be given. It is common practice to prefer a buyer from your friend's circle or even from your own city due to a list of advantages that I don't want to list down :) ... There are stories of buy / sell nightmares!! In this case, the seller already had people in his circle asking for the item but not confirming. How will he put it on " hold " ?

In the past this has happened to me also. I confirm to buy but the person may say..."Hey, a friend has expressed interest in the city. He will confirm by tomorrow. I will ping you if that does not happen. I prefer a local sale"

What is the big deal ?
 
Well looks like our "For Sale" section will soon turn into a full fledged e-procurement portal bound by the terms and conditions therein. Obviously for any e-procurement platform to function as intended we need to have the same certified by the STQC and follow all CVC guidelines. Further, subletting these services may open a stream of revenue for the forum. :) :) :)
Not at all necessary,. No need to bring the terms and jargon which are beyond the objective of this forum and no need to make things more complicated.

'Object' and 'Objective' is more important than the process. Process is only a tool to fulfill the Objectives, keeping the Object in the center. I believe in very simple and natural flow of process, which is the tone of my posts.

'Security' doesn't mean to be Armed forces always. A kid feel more secured when holding the hands of Father/Mother than in the center of the squad. A girl feel more secured in a team rather than alone. There is no single resolution which fulfill all the needs or which is termed as an end.

Exceptions will always be there. But, keeping in mind the objective of this forum, let us stick to most common thing and try to define a way out if possible.
 
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subjective flaws
When you are past the effect of the current incident, do reflect on this: “Is subjectivity a ‘flaw’? Or there is a room and reason for it to coexist with objective logic and processes.”

This forum is a community of co-hobbyists, and pursuing hobby is a subjective affair. And that includes buying/selling. While there’s no indication that it happened in this case, it should be alright for a seller to chose to go with a buyer he feels more comfortable with and offer him easier/preferable terms than others.

The parallels from corporate or government world are less relevant as the decision makers there are (except in proprietary firms) trustees/representatives of the owners and not owners themselves. That’s not the case here. If I own an item, I should have the freedom to select whom, out of those who approached, I’d like to sell to. And using whatever logic I deem right.
 
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When you are past the effect of the current incident, do reflect on this: “Is subjectivity a ‘flaw’? Or there is a room and reason for it to coexist with objective logic and processes.”

This forum is a community of co-hobbyists, and pursuing hobby is a subjective affair. And that includes buying/selling. While there’s no indication that it happened in this case, it should be alright for a seller to chose to go with a buyer he feels more comfortable with and offer him easier/preferable terms than others.

The parallels from corporate or government world are less relevant as the decision makers there are (except in proprietary firms) trustees/representatives of the owners and not owners themselves. That’s not the case here. If I own an item, I should have the freedom to select whom, out of those who approached, I’d like to sell to. And using whatever logic I deem right.
Granted the right or freedom to sell to anybody approaching for purchase in a closed community is guarded. Probably this might not have been the case anyway as you have mentioned. But at the risk of sounding like a broken record (pun intended), my beef is with the explicit communication stating that I am sixth in line of enquiry. We all strive for safety as buyers/sellers, but there is a generally a limit to safety in numbers. I would be fine if i'm told that the seller is waiting for confirmation/payment from a buyer. But would feel otherwise if i'm told that I'm sixth in line for the product and buyer is evaluating the multitudes of us for suitability. That all sequential offers in a closed respected group might be entirely frivolous. That conveys a sense of "unobtanium" and restricted privilige. Seller might not have intended it like that, and may have just been my faulty oversensitive perception.
I do find the detailed discussions on sales protocols quite amusing, and do not wish for this forum to face such monstrosities.
I do have to say that I am engaging in this debate just for the spirited responses from fellow FM's. I don't hold any grudge against the seller, and respect his subsequent communication on this matter. Just so I can relieve anxiety of my fellow FM's concerned about my sanity and me being at risk of condemnation to any asylum (for not getting "what's the big deal"), I pompously announce successful purchase of a mediocre turntable.
 
Some very lengthy discussion on matter not so serious, I feel it unnecessary and should not be pulled so long. This was not a weekend or a holiday either but in spite of that how come people participated so much and with much vigour.
I once again welcome you all for even lengthier discussion as today and tomorrow being holidays for most of us.
I really like how wonderful some Schiit can sound.
Thanks
 
Yes, a seller is free to sell to whomever he is comfortable with, to whose ever payment terms he likes, to whose ever face he likes better and to who ever he wishes to sell it to. At that point, that item is then SOLD.
Read again - S. O. L. D.!!!
The thread should be then marked as such so that in this PUBLIC forum where an expression of interest to sell has been exhibited, the PUBLIC then know. Interested parties then no longer approach the seller because they know the sale status and hence no time/effort/energy is expended by both. It is besides the whole point that the PUBLIC in this forum happen to be hobbyists. They could be Gremlins for all purposes. The point still stands!
Like @liverpool_for_life said - the person who pays first should be the buyer. I don't understand the concept of a queue. Why should there be one in the first place? If someone wanted to buy, why not make up one's mind before an approach is even made? It's stupid to say something like - hey, I want to buy but will need a day till I convince my wife to agree to release the funds so please hold it for me till then. Why don't you ask the damn wife first, dude?! And if I were the seller, if someone approached me for a request to hold, my response would probably be that it would be on hold for him till as long as someone else buys it.
 
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And if I were the seller, if someone approached me for a request to hold, my response would probably be that it would be on hold for him till as long as someone else buys it.
My views are also the same. I don't believe in getting Token Advances & Hold Times. A buyer after paying a small token advance like 1K, may keep on extending the Hold time as he wishes and some of the Buyers exhibit take it for granted attitude when we say we can't hold it anymore.
 
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