Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is better?

Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

I have been experimenting with my surround and surround rear speakers for a few weeks now. They are on stands (height not adjustable) so I can only adjust the distance. If a particular setup and settings sound good for my DTH, they sound terrible for BD-Rips. Later I realised that source sound of so called DD+ from some of the movies on some of the Airtel-HD channels are of poor quality. Need to tinker with the dish to improve Signal quality. My personal choice is a flexi-mount which puts the speakers at 12-18" above ear level and angled towards you
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

In what scenario is it a compromise ?
The speaker manufacturer doesn't know how high you're going to place the surround or how far the listener is. Suppose the tilt built into the speaker doesn't point at the listener?
The user has to look for surrounds with wall brackets to then angle it..
Then the user gets to aim the speakers for best results.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Sharing my experience:

Had tilted the speaker with wall mount at approx. 6 feet ( as I had read somewhere I do nto remember!) but focusing to the sweet spot ie the centre position.

I had seen an illustration in Dolby_Hoemtheatre s offcial etup guide that shows surrounds on pedestals at ear level.

From my experience I had observed if surround sounds emanating from surround speakers will be irritating depends on the movie types:

1. Hollywood action movies : Surround sounds mostly are gun shots or cars/bikes swishing from different directions, helicopter sounds, knocking of doors etc.,

These sounds are not irritating but adds a bit of wow experience.

2. Indian Movies: I had observed that Indian movie directors(particularly south Indian movies) use the surrounds mostly to elevate the mood ( usually sad/depressive mood) or create in the mind hate on the villain or make a low humming sound that some bad event is going to happen.

It might sound silly but play a good surround sound Indian movie and check the difference.

The most recent I had observed is in the movie - Baahubali. The director Rajamouli intelligently used the surrounds to elevate the scene shown on the screen and creating a feeling of Grandeur in the visuals.(which is all CGI) I had closely listened in the surrounds that he used the surrounds for the chorus voices to elevate the mood.

Someone has mentoned in this thread that at ear level it is distracting. Chances are this experience is while watching Indian movies.
 
The speaker manufacturer doesn't know how high you're going to place the surround or how far the listener is.

3 -4 feet higher than ear level.. A maximum of 6 - 7 feet on either sides..

Suppose the tilt built into the speaker doesn't point at the listener?

Assuming the tilt angle is between 25 - 40 degrees, i think very less chances...

Need to tinker with the dish to improve Signal quality.

Don't think you can do that..

My personal choice is a flexi-mount which puts the speakers at 12-18" above ear level and angled towards you

I think you are near perfect placement :)

Sharing my experience:

Had tilted the speaker with wall mount at approx. 6 feet ( as I had read somewhere I do nto remember!) but focusing to the sweet spot ie the centre position.

Almost similar to the above post, but height being slightly different..

I had seen an illustration in Dolby_Hoemtheatre s offcial etup guide that shows surrounds on pedestals at ear level.

Yes.. Me too have seen that.. All surrounds are at ear level..

From my experience I had observed if surround sounds emanating from surround speakers will be irritating depends on the movie types:

1. Hollywood action movies : Surround sounds mostly are gun shots or cars/bikes swishing from different directions, helicopter sounds, knocking of doors etc.,

These sounds are not irritating but adds a bit of wow experience.

2. Indian Movies: I had observed that Indian movie directors(particularly south Indian movies) use the surrounds mostly to elevate the mood ( usually sad/depressive mood) or create in the mind hate on the villain or make a low humming sound that some bad event is going to happen.

It might sound silly but play a good surround sound Indian movie and check the difference.

The most recent I had observed is in the movie - Baahubali. The director Rajamouli intelligently used the surrounds to elevate the scene shown on the screen and creating a feeling of Grandeur in the visuals.(which is all CGI) I had closely listened in the surrounds that he used the surrounds for the chorus voices to elevate the mood.

Thats is some great observation between the movies... I had watched Madras Caffe many times and never felt it is bollywood movie..
 
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Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

3 -4 feet higher than ear level.. A maximum of 6 - 7 feet on either sides..

Assuming the tilt angle is between 25 - 40 degrees, i think very less chances...
In this day and age of Atmos and DTS:X, manufacturers don't know whether users will have surrounds at/around ear level or 3-4 feet above. Could go either way. They also can't make assumptions about distance, since they don't know room size.

So there's no way for them to predict tilt angle needed to hit the listening area. Only the user can do that properly, and only AFTER choosing the listening area and surround speaker location.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

In this day and age of Atmos and DTS:X, manufacturers don't know whether users will have surrounds at/around ear level or 3-4 feet above. Could go either way. They also can't make assumptions about distance, since they don't know room size.

What is your scenario that an angled speaker might miss the listener's ears? Am asking this only to understand better..

So there's no way for them to predict tilt angle needed to hit the listening area. Only the user can do that properly, and only AFTER choosing the listening area and surround speaker location.

Here is one recent update from sound and vision..

Triads In-Ceiling Speaker Takes Aim at Dolby Atmos, DTS:X
Read more at Triads In-Ceiling Speaker Takes Aim at Dolby Atmos, DTS:X | Sound & Vision

TriadSpeaker%20%282%29.jpg


180 degrees rotatable ceiling speakers and 45 degrees angle aimed at the listener, it has much more to offer with laser level.. Think this is one of a kind..

Though a surround speaker doesn't need not have such prowess, can have a simple tilt angle in my humble opinion..
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

What is your scenario that an angled speaker might miss the listener's ears?
I don't understand the question. Suppose your front L/R speakers had an angled baffle (i.e., toe-in was built in). When you spread your front speakers the proper distance apart, you notice that the speakers are pointed to an empty spot near you instead of pointed at your listening position. You would be OK with that?
Though a surround speaker doesn't need not have such prowess, can have a simple tilt angle in my humble opinion..
Those aren't surround speakers, they're height speakers.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

I don't understand the question. Suppose your front L/R speakers had an angled baffle (i.e., toe-in was built in). When you spread your front speakers the proper distance apart, you notice that the speakers are pointed to an empty spot near you instead of pointed at your listening position. You would be OK with that?

Nope..I get it..

What i am referring to is when an angled surrounds are used slightly above ear level, vertical impact to the user must be much higher than mounting a regular speaker which isn't facing the user's ears...

Those aren't surround speakers, they're height speakers.

Yes right.. i Quoted this only as an example...If an height speaker can be designed with so many pointers, an angled surrounds too can be done the same way..
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Nope..I get it..
I don't think so, since you still seem to believe that angled speakers will somehow know to point correctly to the listener.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

I don't think so, since you still seem to believe that angled speakers will somehow know to point correctly to the listener.

I have seen in movie theater's for surrounds & rear surrounds, they had used angled surrounds... Must be around 8 - 9 feet high from the floor on either sides, which i think is to cover the entire width of the movie hall...

If it can work in movie theater, with less height, it should work at home too..Hence the belief :)
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

I have seen in movie theater's for surrounds & rear surrounds, they had used angled surrounds... Must be around 8 - 9 feet high from the floor on either sides, which i think is to cover the entire width of the movie hall...
Doesn't cover the entire width of the movie hall evenly: i.e., listeners closer to the speaker will hear different frequency response vs listeners near the middle of the theatre vs listeners at the far end of the theatre. Why would anyone deliberately want to sabotage their home listening with that sort of inconsistency when it can be easily avoided?
Hence the belief.
Hence my pointing out that you didn't "get it".
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Why would anyone deliberately want to sabotage their home listening with that sort of inconsistency when it can be easily avoided?

Not really.. only thinking on the lines of more impact to the user..

Suppose your front L/R speakers had an angled baffle (i.e., toe-in was built in). When you spread your front speakers the proper distance apart, you notice that the speakers are pointed to an empty spot near you instead of pointed at your listening position. Hence my pointing out that you didn't "get it".

My understanding in this scenario was that the listening position starts just after the null point... if you meant otherwise, please clarify..
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Not really.. only thinking on the lines of more impact to the user..
Why will having a speaker not aimed at the listener have more impact?
My understanding in this scenario was that the listening position starts just after the null point... if you meant otherwise, please clarify..
What null point? Please clarify.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Why will having a speaker not aimed at the listener have more impact?

Assuming the speakers are more than ear-level, and facing each other, i think the user is at a loss of detail.. At-least to some extent..

What null point? Please clarify.

If the speakers had angled toe-in built in, at the user listening position he would have a reduced soundstage is my understanding..
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Assuming the speakers are more than ear-level, and facing each other, i think the user is at a loss of detail.. At-least to some extent..
IF the speaker is aimed at the listener, then the listener is hearing the speaker's on-axis response (the speaker's best response), so no loss of detail.
If the speakers had angled toe-in built in, at the user listening position he would have a reduced soundstage is my understanding..
Where is this "null point" you were talking about in your previous post?
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

IF the speaker is aimed at the listener, then the listener is hearing the speaker's on-axis response (the speaker's best response), so no loss of detail.

When you mean aimed at the listener, hope you are referring to both scenarios 1) mounted at ear level
2) above ear level, but titled towards listener..

Where is this "null point" you were talking about in your previous post?

Reduced sound-stage is what i was referring as "null point"
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

When you mean aimed at the listener, hope you are referring to both scenarios 1) mounted at ear level
2) above ear level, but titled towards listener..
Doesn't matter where in the room the speaker is, it can be aimed at the listener. A pre-tilted baffle cannot guarantee that.
Reduced sound-stage is what i was referring as "null point"
What does that have to do with a null? Do you know what a null is?
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Doesn't matter where in the room the speaker is, it can be aimed at the listener.

Agreed..

A pre-tilted baffle cannot guarantee that.

Am not aware if a pre-tilted baffle has a sonic compromise.. A titled baffle should provide more impact is my reasoning, at-least for surrounds.

What does that have to do with a null? Do you know what a null is?

Nope..I used the term which came at that moment.
 
Re: Surround's - Ear level (or) Above ear level (or) Angled / Tilted - Which is bette

Am not aware if a pre-tilted baffle has a sonic compromise..
Nope. Speakers sound better on-axis. No way for a pre-determined tilt to guarantee that. Therefore, tilted baffle is a compromise.
Nope..I used the term which came at that moment.
No soap, radio.
 
Nope. Speakers sound better on-axis. No way for a pre-determined tilt to guarantee that. Therefore, tilted baffle is a compromise. No soap, radio.

Am a novice when it comes to speaker design/attributes and can't present my reasoning against your's.. But will try placing surrounds in different positions and observe which has more impact..

Thanks for all the inputs..

Edit:
Came across this today...SVS Prime Elevation speakers..

SVS-Prime-Elevation_in_place.jpg


SVS_Prime_elevation_direct_radiatingc.jpg


Looking at this speaker manual in this link - https://system.na1.netsuite.com/cor...941&c=3634088&h=e83377c7c4949212e549&_xt=.pdf, page 8 it has interesting placement options..
 
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