The Wonder Add-on. The Behringer DEQ2496

[mahiruha]

Hi Mahiruha,

My friend who has the DEQX in his system sends the signal from his TT/phono stage to the DEQX which does the signal processing,the signal is then fed to his ATC SCM100 active speakers.

He also has a McIntosh C46 pre/phono stage and can feed the signal from the TT(TECHNICS SP15/Obsidian base with EPA 5000 tonearm and ShureV15 or Grado cartridges) to the McIntosh pre and an unprocessed signal from the Mcintosh pre to the ATC's.

I have heard both setups and believe you me its a tough call to make.The sound is very good,from both.

After all the digtal signal correction by the DEQX(a tube phono stage it certainly is not) the sound is AWESOME. There is a slight loss of the Analogue signature but given the resultant sound I can live with it.

The sound through the Mcintosh is equally good and has a little more warmth,but is not as clean as from the DEQX.


Regards
Rajiv

Hi Rajiv,
thnaks for sharing your observation. Just curious to know what your friend was missing in the first place iin such a high end setup that prompted him to go for a DEQx in the first place. I am just trying to understand the motivation to go for such a product. Is it to achieve the desirable output from a music that are not so well recorded or it is to correct for the factors in a room set up which may not be ideal. Another thing I am bit confused is you said the sound is not as clean as from DEQX. Here by clean do you mean clarity? In that case if we go by the physics of sound then what is the definiton of clarity? Is it redoing the frequency response curve in a more flat way so that our ears are less strained to pickup all the frequncies properly so that our mind process them as clarity in signal. I guess before doing all these the device needs to know the in room frequency response of the speaker itself. How the three dimensional information ( Frequency, Db, Distance from the centre of the speaker ) is fed into the system? Do we need to take extensive measurements with a microphone or there is a readymade file in the database which can be fed into the system. No wonder this sort of device is very interesting specially for a person like me who is always interested to different experiments. Sorry but one more final question has the device like DEQX stop vinylholics to look for better cartridges to look for a different sound signature.
Thanks.

Vortex: I get your point. What was your motivation to go for this product? Were you missing something that you really wanted or you just wanted to experiment like many times I do?
Thanks.

 

[arj]

Rajiv. are you talking about the DEQX ? that is a pretty serious ( and $$$) equipment. I believe better than the tact as well.

 

[venkatcr]

nordost and Lyrita would definitely sound very different as they are designed around a different philosophy.. so any system you will get very different results with each. Liking and not liking are too system and ear specific so cannot really say which is good or bad.

I think I had heard Lyritas on my system and i was using a transparent musiclink plus IC and the Lyrita sound comparatively more muddled...but i do know folks who have felt it to sound really good on their systems.

but from a cost point of view..they should ideally be compared to cables with a retail price 2-3 times more...am sure they are VFM

I am constantly amazed at the conditional comparison of products as simple as cables. A cable has simple enough job and that is to carry data from one end to another with the least amount of distortion and resistance.

On nearly a daily basis I keep switching between speaker cables and ICs, and this is done on reasonable systems such as Primare, Creek, Dynaudio, Martin Logan, etc. As I said before in another thread, you do have to use a set of systems as reference, change just one part, and 'hear' what difference it makes. If what you hear sounds better with the change, it is only natural that you judge that product to be better. Yes, the defeated product may sound better on a specific system, but in that case, I would recommend the manufacturer clearly state the conditions under which it must be used.

In speaker cables and ICs we may have to concede that brand name and price may not have too much value. I have yet to discern more that 3 or 4% of 'perceivable' difference between a cable that costs 90 Rupees a meter and one that sells in five or six figures. And, surprisingly, in many cases I have heard the cheaper cables beat the expensive ones by a few yards. Ultimately we have to ask ourselves, is it worth the difference? Unfortunately for me, whenever I have challenged some people to explain to me what difference they hear, the stock answer is that it is a personal opinion. Can you not explain it? I certainly can and to back up what I say, I can always play back the same number and pinpoint exactly where I hear the difference. And mind you, I do this not using what I consider vague terms such as lushness, body, etc. It is always something as simple as hearing an instrument with more clarity, hearing an instrument that was not there at all, or a tone in the voice that is clearly discernible. In my mind if I cannot hear these easily explainable differences, the two products are broadly on par with each other.

In something as simple as the movement of electricity across a cable, personal opinions, in my opinion, should not have much value. After all we can measure the transmission can we not? Over this simple provable concept, if you think you can hear something a few others cannot, what is there to say? Maybe I am going deaf !!

And to Arj and all members, this post of mine was more loud thinking than anything else. It is more a reassurance from me to myself that my thought processes are correct. I have quoted Arj's post as it just acted as a trigger.

Cheers

 

[Rajiv]

Hi,

Rajiv. are you talking about the DEQX ? that is a pretty serious ( and $$$) equipment. I believe better than the tact as well.

@ Arj, yes that is the DEQX I am talking about.

@ Mahiruha, my friend bought the DEQX after hearing its capabilites at another persons house and the incredible flexibility it offered for sound shaping .It was more of an impulsive purchase and he is fortunate to be able to make such purchases without batting an eyelid.

The DEQX has certainly improved an already very good system,by cleaning up room anomalies.Listening to music on the big ATC's after processing the sound through the DEQX is like listening to a studio mix master tape.This is what I ment when I said clean.

This reveiw will give you an idea of the capabilites of the DEQX my friend has.

6moons audio reviews: DEQX PDC-2.6P

My friend uses and likes the old Shure V15/III cartridge ,so I have not had an oportunity to listen to other cartridges,through the DEQX.He has a Grado wood body but I have not heard it through the DEQX.

The DEQX used properly should not alter the tonality of the different cartridges.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[anilva]

Any idea on who sells Behringer products in Bangalore? I am planning to buy a Digital crossover for my OB project.

Thanks in advance.
Anil

 

[arj]

In speaker cables and ICs we may have to concede that brand name and price may not have too much value. I have yet to discern more that 3 or 4% of 'perceivable' difference between a cable that costs 90 Rupees a meter and one that sells in five or six figures. And, surprisingly, in many cases I have heard the cheaper cables beat the expensive ones by a few yards. Ultimately we have to ask ourselves, is it worth the difference? Unfortunately for me, whenever I have challenged some people to explain to me what difference they hear, the stock answer is that it is a personal opinion. Can you not explain it? I certainly can and to back up what I say, I can always play back the same number and pinpoint exactly where I hear the difference. And mind you, I do this not using what I consider vague terms such as lushness, body, etc. It is always something as simple as hearing an instrument with more clarity, hearing an instrument that was not there at all, or a tone in the voice that is clearly discernible. In my mind if I cannot hear these easily explainable differences, the two products are broadly on par with each other.

In something as simple as the movement of electricity across a cable, personal opinions, in my opinion, should not have much value. After all we can measure the transmission can we not? Over this simple provable concept, if you think you can hear something a few others cannot, what is there to say? Maybe I am going deaf !!

And to Arj and all members, this post of mine was more loud thinking than anything else. It is more a reassurance from me to myself that my thought processes are correct. I have quoted Arj's post as it just acted as a trigger.

Cheers

Hi venkat, dont want a discussion on cables either and 4 years ago i would not have bought any cable over USD 100 Equivalent..but today i think of it very very seriously having seen differences which are very difficult to quantify in percentages and it is definitely nothing to do with brands although the process of finding has been painful and every cable is a compromise in some way and just need to find what works best for you.

difference can be quantified in terms of tonal quality, details, as well as the presentation eg the current cables i have ie solitone moves the image far behind and spreads it across and makes it much better in my system in that aspect

But in the end, simply put, it is all a play of impedences/phase (whether we like it or not) which change from system to system and even within a system change from frequency to frequency and hence makes it very "Fickle minded" hence the differences beween ears and rooms and systems.:sad:

anyway seriously OT..this is a behringer discussion and not a cable one

 

[arj]

Any idea on who sells Behringer products in Bangalore? I am planning to buy a Digital crossover for my OB project.

Thanks in advance.
Anil

Anilva, the rate in india is very high..easier to buy off ebay, if you can.
i remember having sent a mail to the dealer and got a quote from him in bangalore. it should be available on the behringer website ..I think ?

 

[madman29]

One question-
How does one convert those those XLRs to rca or S/pdif?
'cause my DVD player has only S/pdif. If I am to buy this gadget (DEQ2496) then the the first thing I will need will be those conversion cables. Does a simple XLR to RCA work in this situation or one needs something special?

 

[grubyhalo]

One question-
How does one convert those those XLRs to rca or S/pdif?
'cause my DVD player has only S/pdif. If I am to buy this gadget (DEQ2496) then the the first thing I will need will be those conversion cables. Does a simple XLR to RCA work in this situation or one needs something special?

You would need something like this:

Digital Audio (S/PDIF) Coaxial to Toslink Optical Digital Converter

 

[arj]

One question-
How does one convert those those XLRs to rca or S/pdif?
'cause my DVD player has only S/pdif. If I am to buy this gadget (DEQ2496) then the the first thing I will need will be those conversion cables. Does a simple XLR to RCA work in this situation or one needs something special?

behringer has Optical inputs and outputs and most DVDps have that as well. Do check your DVDp as most probably you would not need a converter.

 

[thevortex]

One question-
How does one convert those those XLRs to rca or S/pdif?
'cause my DVD player has only S/pdif. If I am to buy this gadget (DEQ2496) then the the first thing I will need will be those conversion cables. Does a simple XLR to RCA work in this situation or one needs something special?

arj is right. The unit does sport an optical in and an optical out. So you might be able to get by without any converter. At any rate the XLR to RCA cables - though requiring custom ordering - is nothing really fancy. Or costly.

 

[thevortex]

Vortex: I get your point. What was your motivation to go for this product? Were you missing something that you really wanted or you just wanted to experiment like many times I do?
Thanks.

Mahiruha - I am not sure if I am answered this point at all. A very complex question there really. Why do we upgrade? Could be due to very pointed reasons or could be just for the heck of it!

But really I had been using the Lyrita modified DDDac for a month and a half or so and wanted to assess it against some competition as far as a DAC is concerned. Having recently moved in to my present accomodation I was convinced that this room was not as 'musical' as my previous one. So I had anyway been eyeing the Behringer unit to do some room correction. After reading a lot about it, I figured it should not be an absolute loss as a DAC as well. And the rest, as they say, is history. Hope I answered your question.

 

[thevortex]

Also just to clarify all these observations on the Behringer are with no room correction done. I am still waiting on my Behringer ECM8000 microphone to arrive from the US. That is when the next journey will start.

 

[mahiruha]

Mahiruha - I am not sure if I am answered this point at all. A very complex question there really. Why do we upgrade? Could be due to very pointed reasons or could be just for the heck of it!

But really I had been using the Lyrita modified DDDac for a month and a half or so and wanted to assess it against some competition as far as a DAC is concerned. Having recently moved in to my present accomodation I was convinced that this room was not as 'musical' as my previous one. So I had anyway been eyeing the Behringer unit to do some room correction. After reading a lot about it, I figured it should not be an absolute loss as a DAC as well. And the rest, as they say, is history. Hope I answered your question.

Hi Vortex,
its really good that you are getting good results with your experiments.The room indeed plays a big role in the sound reproduction as I have experienced when I moved my main setup to the library. The harmoney ones you are using do you have the driver at your ear level. The way my speakers were located they were not at my ear level so recently I rasied them to my ear level and the overall musical representation has improved a lot
mainly in the areas of sound staging and depth. The only problem is since the boxes I have put below the speakers are empty so the bass is bit muddy. I am planning to fill those boxes with sand and put them on a granite slab.
Thanks.

 

[thevortex]

Hi Vortex,
its really good that you are getting good results with your experiments.The room indeed plays a big role in the sound reproduction as I have experienced when I moved my main setup to the library. The harmoney ones you are using do you have the driver at your ear level. The way my speakers were located they were not at my ear level so recently I rasied them to my ear level and the overall musical representation has improved a lot
mainly in the areas of sound staging and depth. The only problem is since the boxes I have put below the speakers are empty so the bass is bit muddy. I am planning to fill those boxes with sand and put them on a granite slab.
Thanks.

The granite slab treatment idea - I think Rajiv also touched upon that once. But the thing is I dont think the speakers themselves are the culprit. This, I found out, only after I changed my source to the Behringer. The bass is fast, precise and totally devoid of boom or muddiness.

Overt lushness could also be a case for the perceived muddiness, I think. For me, this pairing has hit it off very well. Not sure what would be the best solution in your case. And yes the Harmony Ones are very near to my ear level at the sitting position.

 

[thevortex]

Time for an update folks!

I got the Behringer ECM8000 microphone a couple of days back. And the last 2 days were spent in measuring, re-measuring and adjusting output through the DEQ2496.

Finally with each of the speakers being equalized separately (they each required different settings as far as room correction is concerned) in dual mono mode, I am satisfied.

The quantum of improvement (with the DEQ2496)as compared to my HTPC sound card output truly scares me.

Next step is to outline challenges in setting up this machine and if people are interested provide a few suggested settings for the EQ. Although in reality all of this is going to be personal as also based on the listening room.

 

[Rajiv]

The only problem is since the boxes I have put below the speakers are empty so the bass is bit muddy. I am planning to fill those boxes with sand and put them on a granite slab.

Hi Mahiruha,

Filling the boxes with sand and/or adding a granite slab will ceratinly help tame the muddy bass.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[Rajiv]

Hi Bala,

Your system sounded very good when I last heard it,now with the Behringer dialed in it must be awesome.:clapping:

Regards
Rajiv

 

[arj]

Time for an update folks!

I got the Behringer ECM8000 microphone a couple of days back. And the last 2 days were spent in measuring, re-measuring and adjusting output through the DEQ2496.

Finally with each of the speakers being equalized separately (they each required different settings as far as room correction is concerned) in dual mono mode, I am satisfied.

The quantum of improvement when I switch back to my HTPC sound card output truly scares me.

Next step is to outline challenges in setting up this machine and if people are interested provide a few suggested settings for the EQ. Although in reality all of this is going to be personal as also based on the listening room.

great to hear..i too realized the Dual Mono only after a couple of iterations. this device initially looks pretty complicated but once you get a hang of it it starts to make sense.

I am not very happy with it . I use a coaxial Digital cable between the transport and DAC, i am not able to place the same cable to compare the Transport-Behringer -dac sequence. now using a pair of professional level Optical cables but there is a definite sense of loss of resolution.
if i get a good glass optical cable this is one area i plan to explore

 

[anm]

what is your setup these days thevortex? Pls update your sig