Tilting speakers upwards or downwards

[mbhangui]

I would seriously like to understand the motivation behind taking out so much time and effort to do all these for your setup @Analogous , even though it might not be germane to this discussion. As far as I’ve been following your posts , I felt you were very happy with what the Croft has done to your speakers in your room.
Is there something that’s still lacking and if so , what are you comparing it against to ?

Dil Maange More.

 

[arj]

Dil Maange More.

..isnt that the fun in the hobby the little tweaks you can do here and there and observe changes .It may only be 0.5% but every bit helps..

 

[jls001]

However, I find his fundamental premise rather sensible - don’t try to match both speakers exactly. In my room, for example, there’s an open balcony to the right and a staircase and dining area to the left. When both speakers are perfectly matched, the center image shifts to the right. When I fine tune by ear, the right speaker ends up forward by an inch or so, and the left speaker is toed in a hair more. The center image is now locked in tight.

This is wisdom, IMO. I've actually seen some people refusing to have slightly unequal/assymetrical placement because of various reasons while knowing that assymetrical placement produces symmetrical left-right balance. Another option is to listen slightly off center to balance out the left and right sounds. It can be jarring visually. Proof that we do listen with our eyes too

 

[aeroash]

This guy is a big proponent of raking the speakers back. An old video that you may find interesting:

However, I find his fundamental premise rather sensible - don’t try to match both speakers exactly. In my room, for example, there’s an open balcony to the right and a staircase and dining area to the left. When both speakers are perfectly matched, the center image shifts to the right. When I fine tune by ear, the right speaker ends up forward by an inch or so, and the left speaker is toed in a hair more. The center image is now locked in tight.

My OCD is going to explode with this method. I Just wish I had a separate room where only the quality of the sound was the only factor, and the aesthetics, not so much.

He does make sense. One of my speakers has a wall on the side and the other doesn't. The one close to the wall will naturally have more decibels, and the only way to balance the decibels was to use room correction software. My OCD will not allow me to have anything asymmetrical. But I intend to try this method just for fun. I know there will be two things in a loop here. The Ballad of the Runaway Horse, and Old Monk.

 

[Bloom@83]

..isnt that the fun in the hobby the little tweaks you can do here and there and observe changes .It may only be 0.5% but every bit helps..

I wish human ears were so sensitive as to discern 0.5% difference …

 

[arj]

I wish human ears were so sensitive as to discern 0.5% difference …

if it does then make the change ..if it does not keep researching and be happy

 

[coaltrain]

Proof that we do listen with our eyes too

This is so true!
I find that listening with eyes closed immediately improves soundstage width, depth and, yes, height.
Try this simple trick: listen to an expansive recording with eyes closed and point to an Instrument on your extreme right or left. Nine times out of ten, when you open your eyes, you’ll be pointing to an empty space beyond your speakers. Listen to the same track with eyes open and you’ll feel the sound is coming from the speakers themselves.

I know there will be two things in a loop here. The Ballad of the Runaway Horse, and Old Monk.

You’re on the right track, aeroash!
Achieving the right ‘spirit level’ is the first step to better sound
Don‘t be too hassled with the visual mismatch, though. If you’re lucky and the changes are minor, it’ll be hard to tell the difference. The pic below was taken from my listening position, and most can’t tell that the right speaker is a bit forward and toed out more.
Also, try a good mono track to dial in the centre image. I use The Beatles’ Revolver and Sonny Rollins’ Saxophone Colossus.

 

[Analogous]

I would seriously like to understand the motivation behind taking out so much time and effort to do all these for your setup @Analogous , even though it might not be germane to this discussion. As far as I’ve been following your posts , I felt you were very happy with what the Croft has done to your speakers in your room.
Is there something that’s still lacking and if so , what are you comparing it against to ?

@Bloom@83 You are right, I am more satisfied than ever before with my current set up. I listen for several hours most days and derive a lot of joy from the music.

But, the quest for “better” is a part of the human condition I think. Everyone is doing this in some aspect or other.

I feel I can still squeeze a little bit more with such tweaks that have no additional financial investment. This particular exercise has little profit for audio companies and hence not marketed much.

The physics of acoustical properties and behavior and my interaction with this is still a source of fascination for me. I probably will continue exploring this till I find a new obsession or get tired of it. Hope this answers your question.

Dil Maange More.

This is far more succinct than my long winded explanation!!!

 

[Bloom@83]

@Bloom@83 You are right, I am more satisfied than ever before with my current set up. I listen for several hours most days and derive a lot of joy from the music.

But, the quest for “better” is a part of the human condition I think. Everyone is doing this in some aspect or other.

I feel I can still squeeze a little bit more with such tweaks that have no additional financial investment. This particular exercise has little profit for audio companies and hence not marketed much.

The physics of acoustical properties and behavior and my interaction with this is still a source of fascination for me. I probably will continue exploring this till I find a new obsession or get tired of it. Hope this answers your question.


This is far more succinct than my long winded explanation!!!

All right ! Point taken …. I guess part of the fun is in attempting the tweaks in itself.
Whatever floats one’s boat.

 

[Shinto]

He sounds very convincing and confident in the method he describes.
It’s much more than just about raking. Do watch if you haven’t already.
Best part is it doesn’t cost anything other than some time, physical effort and persistence.
Anyone tried it here?

I have tried it.It could be a great set up tool for someone who is starting in a new room.I am not sure if it is any special to the other setup techniques.I have tried other techniques as well and always arrived at same speaker position roughly.Fine tuning to mm level is what makes the difference.I end up setting both speakers at the same distance from front wall to mm level regardless of side wall distance differences.I have used the setup technique suggested by @prem in a different thread with great success.
Here is another one from YouTube.

 

[mbhangui]

My OCD is going to explode with this method.

I have the same issue. I tried the method yesterday. Oh Man!!! This method is extremely tiring. My biceps and back are complaining. Morning I woke up and the room looked awful and not visually appealing to me. So I'm back to square one and have restored everything back to original. I think I require two rooms. One for avr, tv and stuff. Another one for stereo (as bare as possible room).

He does make sense. One of my speakers has a wall on the side and the other doesn't. The one close to the wall will naturally have more decibels, and the only way to balance the decibels was to use room correction software. My OCD will not allow me to have anything asymmetrical. But I intend to try this method just for fun. I know there will be two things in a loop here. The Ballad of the Runaway Horse, and Old Monk.

Without the old monk, it will become a ballad of a runaway audiophile.

 

[Subbu68]

I have the same issue. I tried the method yesterday. Oh Man!!! This method is extremely tiring. My biceps and back are complaining. Morning I woke up and the room looked awful and not visually appealing to me. So I'm back to square one and have restored everything back to original. I think I require two rooms. One for avr, tv and stuff. Another one for stereo (as bare as possible room).


Without the old monk, it will become a ballad of a runaway audiophile.

So here is one who tried Bob's method

 

[mbhangui]

So here is one who tried Bob's method

Yes, it was posted by analogous. The guy here didn't succeed 100% but he says that he got better soundstage and things. Same thing happened with me. I arrived at a possition where the speakers were just few feet apart but they started blocking the viewing angle to the tv. That's why I said before. You can't do both AV and audio stuff in the same room, unless you have the luxury of having a large room and a accomodating better half.

Old monk is a better speaker adjustment techniquue.

 

[mbhangui]

A time will come when they will have robotic speakers. All you will have to do is "Hey Speaker, move to the left / Ok Speaker, toe in by 5 degree", Dishing out the weather and stuff will be bonus

 

[Analogous]

I have tried it.It could be a great set up tool for someone who is starting in a new room.I am not sure if it is any special to the other setup techniques.I have tried other techniques as well and always arrived at same speaker position roughly.Fine tuning to mm level is what makes the difference.I end up setting both speakers at the same distance from front wall to mm level regardless of side wall distance differences.I have used the setup technique suggested by @prem in a different thread with great success.
Here is another one from YouTube.

The devil is in the final millimetres!

 

[mbhangui]

The devil is in the final millimetres!

One mistake I did yesterday was I didn't play it loud. When I woke in the morning and looked at the video, it specifically says to play it loud. Another mistake I made was I started with the speakers the furthest. Of this part I'm confused. I think one video says that you have to start with speakers next to each other and move it apart.

Maybe another day another time. But at the moment If I hear that "Ballad of the Runaway Horse", i fear, my speakers will not get a kind treatment from me.

 

[aeroash]

The devil is in the final millimetres!

I’m tempted with a ‘that’s what she….’ Joke.

One mistake I did yesterday was I didn't play it loud. When I woke in the morning and looked at the video, it specifically says to play it loud. Another mistake I made was I started with the speakers the furthest. Of this part I'm confused. I think one video says that you have to start with speakers next to each other and move it apart.

Maybe another day another time. But at the moment If I hear that "Ballad of the Runaway Horse", i fear, my speakers will not get a kind treatment from me.

Starting with close to the front wall, close to each other, then pull away ever so slowly in all directions. You really need someone to do this for you while you’re at your MLP to see the point at where it begins to “sound right”.

 

[mbhangui]

Starting with close to the front wall, close to each other, then pull away ever so slowly in all directions. You really need someone to do this for you while you’re at your MLP to see the point at where it begins to “sound right”.

Exactly the reason I said one needs robotic speakers where you can give the command "Ok Left speaker move to the right"

 

[aeroash]

Interestingly, most of the Sonus Fabers are slightly tilted backwards.

 

[ssf]

Interestingly, most of the Sonus Fabers are slightly tilted backwards.

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Probably, the Italians are also fans of Old Monk.